Do NOT Address NOR Speak TO the Holy Spirit

Enow · Feb 17, 2013

Jesus said so. Really read the commandment of His invitation.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Now read what Paul says.

1 Timothy 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Now read what is testified as an iniquity towards Jesus Christ.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Now read about how there is no one else but a thief inbetween us and the Son.

John 10:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the door:

There are no invitations given to come to the Holy Spirit nor are there any scriptue testifying of addressing nor speaking to the Spirit because God wants to reconcile sinners in the world away from their spirits and their worship of spirits to a personal reconciled relationship with God the Father through the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ Whom is called the Bridegroom for that reason alone so that believers may avoid false spirits in the world that would try to come inbetween them and the Son.

So Jesus really meant what He had said about coming to God: only by coming to the Son can anyone approach God amd by continuing in relating to the Son can anyone relate to God the Father. There is no other way.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

kenisyes · Feb 17, 2013

So every denomination, without exception is in sin? "Come, Holy Ghost", the Catholic hymn from ancient times, to "Spirit of God, descend upon my heart", "holy spirit, truth divine, dawn upon this soul of mine", "come down O love divine" and many other hymns are in almost every protestant hymnal I have seen.

You are saying we cannot talk to God? Or do you not believe in the trinity?

The reason Scripture does not give examples of talking to the HS, is you don't need to.

MarkayMrk777 · Feb 17, 2013

Pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. (Ephesians 6:18, NIV)

Mercy777 · Feb 17, 2013

Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Acts 8:16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

2 Corinthians 13:14May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Ephesians 4:30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

God Bless,
Mercy

kenisyes · Feb 17, 2013

MarkayMrk777 said:

Enow's point is Scripture always says "in" or "by" the Spirit, never "to" the Spirit.

Enow · Feb 17, 2013

kenisyes said:

Unscriptural and ignoring His words are what those hymnals are doing.

We can pray to the Son at that throne of grace and we can pray to the Father by Him as scripture supports this, but nowhere does scripture support praying TO the Holy Spirit.

I believe Jesus said what He did so that God may reconcile the world away from their rudiments of addressing spirits and wprshipping them to a personal reconciled relationship with God THROUGH the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Broadening the way in how we approach God is the work of iniquity Jesus identified by saying I know ye not whence ye are.

Luke 13:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
So isn't Jesus enough for coming to and addressing the Father or not?

And yet Jesus said that anyone coming before Him as inbetween us and Him is a thief and that climbing up any other way is an iniquity when the Son is the door in relating to God so that believers may avoid false spirits as well as false prophets.

Enow · Feb 17, 2013

MarkayMrk777 said:

Ephesians 6:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Alot of wayward believers have been praying OUT of the Spirit in hypocrisey when He is already in them as they call on the Holy Spirit directly to fall on them "again" as if He can move on His own accord when He cannot, which proves it is not really the Holy Spirit doing that because God is permitting a strong delusion to occur for believing that lie and for disregarding the commandment of His invitation in how believers are to come to God to be saved and to continually come to God in relating to Him..

So the Son is called the Bridegroom for a reason and that is how we are to be chaste in our relationship with God through the Son. There is no other way for us to get to know Him and He us without false spirits coming inbetween us and the Son because believers broadened the way in how we are approaching God the Father by.

Enow · Feb 17, 2013

Mercy777 said:

I believe in the Triune God but none of those verses you had referenced justify ignoring the commandment of His invitation in how we are to relate to God the Father nor do they make void the role of the office of the Mediator which belongs solely to the Son.

Did the Holy Spirit died on the cross? Does the Holy Spirit baptize believers with the Holy Spirit?

This is why scripture is necessary to draw the line of distinction of the role of the Father from the role of the Son and from the role of the Holy Spirit, and just because they are One, does not mean they all share in the same roles. Granted God is Saviour, but no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him ( John 6:44 ) as it is the Father that reveals the Son to those that seek ( Matthew 11:25-30 ) wherein the Holy Spirit in believers testify of the Son to the world...

John 16:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [SUP]9 [/SUP]Of sin, because they believe not on me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; [SUP]11 [/SUP]Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Oce they come to and believe in the Son, it is the Son, Jesus Christ that baptizes believers with the Holy Ghost and fire as the Father will be glorified in the Son for doing so.

And just because there is a Triune God, that does not mean to ignore His words in how the Son is the ONLY way to come to and relate to God the Father in getting to know Him and He us.

Enow · Feb 17, 2013

kenisyes said:

Yep, but more than that. Scripture doesn't allow the Holy Spirit to be inbetween us and the Son for that would make Him a thief and so He is not inbetween us and the Son.

That is why God will not use His gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to be used to speak UNTO the people to be used as a prayer language.

The Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, that He speaks... ( John 16:13 ) that means for this word to be true in meaning and application, the Holy Spirit cannot pray of His own volition when scriture testifies that He speaks what He hears, otherwise it would be moot point of truth to say so if He could actually speak of His own volition to pray.

So the office of mediatorship is given solely to the Son and it is because of errant Bible versions that believers think the Holy Spirit makes intercessions directly Himself while ignoring the "he" as knowing the mind of the Spirit for which the Spirit was being used as a means for the Son in fulfilling His office as the only Mediator between God and man as in according to the will of God.

That means when Jesus makes these direct intercessions for us, He is the One answering those prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So Jesus meant what He had said when He testified of the promise of Him being inbetween us...

Matthew 18:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

That testifying as being inbetween us in our prayer to Him and not among them as some holy rollers will ignore verse 19 to apply verse 20 in meaning that which would be in error.

No matter how you cut it, the Holy Spirit cannot be where the Son is for that would imply He is not able when He is, and the only spirit that would cut inbetween us and the Bridegroom is a thief... period.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber....[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the door:

Do you take heed of His word and do them or run this risk of Him identifying that iniquity by saying I know ye not whence ye are because you refuse to strive ye to enter through the straight gate.

BTW.. Catholic have broadened the way even more to include Mary and the dpearted saints and for all that time they had been praying to the Spirit and using tongues as a prayer language, that iniquity has not been reproved?

That's what they get for ignoring the commandment of His invitation in how we are to approach God the Fathewr by way of the Son as we are reconciled to Him ONLY by way of the Son and living that reconciled relationship with God ONLY through the Son.

Tell me how you can denounce all those "movement of the Spirit" like the holy laughter movement, the Tornoto blessings, the Pensacola Outpouring, and being slain in the Spirit as not being of God when they had addressed the Holy Spirit and called upon the Holy Spirit to invoke the signs and wonders to appear?

That means the Holy Spirit is NOT the One to be praying to in approaching God the Father by. You do not want to believe that because why? That is how you received tongues to be used as a prayer language? That should tell you it is not of Him either.

homwardbound · Feb 17, 2013

Enow said:

Enow I agree for the Holy Spirit does not speak of himself he speaks of Christ and Father, The Holy Ghost is my coupler unto the Son and Father and The Holy Ghost testifies to my Spirit from Father and Son that I belong to Father and Son because I believe, and this conforter becomes my teacher which is the connection between Father and I learning all truth that sets me free do you see this as well brother?

WordGaurdian · Feb 17, 2013

You missed a few versus it seems. No worries mate, here they are...

Luk 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
2 Cor 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. The second epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, a city of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.

Enow · Feb 17, 2013

homwardbound said:

Yes, but as the Holy Spirit speaks unto us, He does so from what He hears so that the Son is fulfilling His role as the Good Shepherd as well. That means the indwelling Holy Spirit and us as faithful witnesses are always pointing to the Son in relating to God the Father by as with the help of the Good Shepherd, we shall be led by the Spirit to be chaste in our reconciled relationship with God through the Bridegroom.

If we point to another other than the Son, we would cease to be His servants and His disciples because we are serving something else in His name in seeking the glory of that something else in His name, and thus false witnesses.

John 7:[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

If that be true for believers as witnesses, so the same would be for the Holy Spirit in His witness which He would never do because there is no unrighteousness in God.

So when believers point to the pastor and testify of him in seeking his glory, that is no longer pointing to the Son in testifying of Him in seeking His glory. In the same voice, when believers point to the Spirit and testify of Him in seeking His glory, that is no longer pointing to the Son in testifying of Him in seeking His glory.

Our eyes should always be seeking the face of the Son in relating to God the Father because the Bridegroom wil be coming soon... and His elect will need His help even to do that in this age of apostasy abounding where faith is hard to find.

Enow · Feb 17, 2013

WordGaurdian said:

You missed a few versus it seems. No worries mate, here they are...

Luk 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
2 Cor 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. The second epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, a city of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.

The Holy Spirit fulfilling His role as the Comforter does not justify praying to nor speaking to the Holy Spirit.

Crossfire · Feb 17, 2013

The Holy Spirit is nothing less than the very divinity that dwells in Jesus Christ now residing in you. The Holy Spirit never mentions Himself but always points toward Christ because Christ is our example of how we are live in surrender to and interact with the indwelling Spirit on a daily basis. The Holy Spirit is our connection to Christ who now sits at the right hand of the Father forever making intercession for us and it is through the indwelling Holy Spirit in which God has chosen to impute the righteousness of Christ, Christ's very nature, to us through the fruit and giftings of the Spirit. He is our direct link to the throne room of God.

I am somewhat saddened by how few seem to actually understand the Holy Spirit's role in our salvation thus they speak of Him as if He is the "red headed step child" of the Trinity.

susanblange · Feb 17, 2013

God knows all our thoughts, and there is nothing you can do in secret that is not known to God

Elin · Feb 17, 2013

Enow said:

Yes, the Spirit's ministry is a floodlight ministry, as presented in the candlestick and showbread in the Most Holy Place of the tabernacle.

As J. I. Packer so ably exegetes, Jesus said he would send the Spirit "in his name" (Jn 14:26); i.e., as his spokesman and representative,
that the Spirit would stay with his disciples "forever" (Jn 14:16), and
that in his coming to them Jesus himself would actually return to them (Jn 14:18-23) as their glorified Lord.

The Spirit would be self-effacing, directing all attention away from himself to Christ (as a floodlight) and drawing folks into the faith, hope, love, obedience, adoration and dedication, which constitutute communion with Christ.
He would not be presenting himself for communion with the believer.

The Spirit would glorify Christ in acting as interpreter (Jn 14:26, 16:13) and as illuminator (Jn 16:8, 15:27, 17:20) of Christ.
His main and constant task is to mediate Jesus' presence to us, making us aware of all that Jesus is, so that we will trust Jesus to be all that to us.

So the question: Do you know the Holy Spirit? is wrong-headed.
We should be asking: Do you know Jesus Christ?
The Holy Spirit does not present himself to us for direct fellowship, as the Father and Son do.
His role is to further our fellowship with them, both by glorifying the Son as the object of our faith, and then witnessing to our adoption through the Son into the Father's family (Ro 8:16).

There are dangers in focusing on "knowing the Spirt," instead of on knowing the Son.
One would be "not holding fast to the Head" (Col 2:19).
And another would be becoming involved with spurious feelings and fancies that are not Christ related,
but related only to Satan's web of deception and endless perversions of truth and goodness.
We should not take one step down this dangerous road to deception.

And another wrong-headed question is: Do you have the Holy Spirit?
Every believer has the Spirit from the moment of faith.
If one does not have the Spirit (Ro 8:9), he is not to search for him but to come to Christ in faith and repentance, and the Spirit will be given to him (Ac 2:38).
The question we should be asking here is: Does the Holy Spirit have you?

Questions about the Holy Spirit that are not forms of the basic question: "How may I come to know Christ and know him better?" ought not to be asked.

But that being said, you misuse the Scriptures when you make seeking communion or fellowship with the Holy Spirit a proscription by God.
Granted, seeking fellowship with the Holy Spirit is the wrong focus, has no Biblical warrant in the NT, and can be fraught with deception, nevertheless, it is not proscribed, per se, in Scripture, and it is a misuse of Scripture to present them as doing so.

WordGaurdian · Feb 17, 2013

Enow said:

Explain how one can have communion without interacting. Or be taught without listening. For Jesus could just as easily have said that the Holy Spirit will refresh your memory. Why in John did He say, He will teach you all things, and bring all things to your rememberance. So he said that not only will He, the Holy Spirit. Refresh your memory (bring to rememberance) but also that He will teach you all things... meaning things which has not yet been said or taught. For how do you teach someone what he already knows. You don't, you simply remind him. But Jesus said both scenarios will be done by the Holy Spirit. Hence the word and. Communion is not just a feeling coming over you. It is that part of the relationship between you and God that is so special. Imagine if you will you sitting alone say in your living room. And you and God talks. You asking questions and Him giving you lecturing and answers. And then He asks you about your day and how you feel about certain things. And then He gives you advice on it. And of course you answer Him. That is communion.

peacefulbeliever · Feb 17, 2013

Enow said:

Isn't the Holy Spirit God? Isn't the Comforter the Holy Spirit? I can't pray to God?

Enow · Feb 17, 2013

Crossfire said:

That would mean there is no praying to the Holy Spirit since we are to be going before that throne of grace in praying to the Son and by Him, we can pray to the Father.

Interacting with the Spirit is one way: He to us: and because He is speaking what He hears, then our response should be towards the Son and by Him, the Father as well.

If there was a translator in the room or someone giving sign language to you for someone speaking in the room to you, who is really speaking to you? Then who should you be focussing when in response?

According to His words, the Son is our only connection to the Father in getting to know Him personally by getting to know the Son personally. There is no other way to know Him personally.

Jesus being at the right hand of the Father puts Him in that position to be the only One making dorect intercessions for us by knowing the mind of the Spirit which the KJV has kept the true message of Paul's words in lining up with the rest of scripture of Jesus being the only Mediator between God and man. the man Christ Jesus.

And only means that.. the only one as Romans 8:26-27 is testifying of Jesus being that only Mediator in according to the will of God. Modern Bibles do not convey that truth at all, but ignores verse 27 and even commit a grammatical error by switching out the pronoun "he" in referring to the Son with "the Spirit" instead.

No. The Holy Spirit isn't our link to the throne of God to be praying to the Spirit or addressing the Spirit in prayer for anything. The Son, Jesus Christ is that only link to the throne room of God.

The Holy Spirit serves as the Divine Witness as we are led by the Spirit in testifying of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son as a witness in serving Jesus Christ. That is how we are His disciple when we honour the Son in seeking His glory and by Him, honouring and glorifying God the Father as well. There is no other way in doing that either.

Enow · Feb 17, 2013

WordGaurdian said:

If there was a translator in the room, who is really talking? So when you speak in return, what is the polite course of action? Speaking to the interpretor or to the one actually speaking?

If any believer feels that as meaning the communion of the Holy Spirit, by His Word, I can tell you that it is not the Holy Spirit.

No. Answering the Son by praying to the Son is how you interact with God the Father. This is why the Son is called the Bridegroom. That is how special your relationship with God the Father is by in how we are chaste with God through the Son so that believers may avoid false spirits that try to come inbetween us and the Son in relating to God the Father by.

Do NOT Address NOR Speak TO the Holy Spirit

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