Do not let your hearts be troubled.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,471
12,943
113
#81
Roman Catholic nonsense
Not if you see that the first day of the week was the day of Christian worship long before the Roman Catholic Church was established. Justin Martyr lived in the 2nd century AD, and he clearly described Christian worship on the Lord's Day (which happens to coincide with the day of the sun). That was about two hundred before the RCC came into existence. Constantine simply put into effect what was already established in Christian churches since the time of the apostles.

And Christ Himself was the one who made the first day of the week special. On the day of resurrection, when He appeared to the eleven apostles, Thomas was missing for some reason. And when the others told him that they had met with the risen Lord, he refused to believe it. Now Christ could have appeared to them again the very next day, or even later on the same day. But He chose to wait a FULL EIGHT DAYS in order to meet with Thomas. Why? He planned to establish the first day of the week as the Lord's Day, when Thomas would worship Him, and then Christians would continue to worship Him on that day.

Matthew Henry's commentary on John 20:26 is very true and very significant:
2. He deferred it so long as seven days. And why so?

(1.) That he might put a rebuke upon Thomas for his incredulity. He had neglected the former meeting of the disciples; and, to teach him to prize those seasons of grace better for the future, he cannot have such another opportunity for several days. He that slips one tide must stay a good while for another. A very melancholy week, we have reason to think Thomas had of it, drooping, and in suspense, while the other disciples were full of joy; and it was owing to himself and his own folly.

(2.) That he might try the faith and patience of the rest of the disciples. They had gained a great point when they were satisfied that they had seen the Lord. Then were the disciples glad; but he would try whether they could keep the ground they had got, when they saw no more of him for some days. And thus he would gradually wean them from his bodily presence, which they had doted and depended too much upon.

(3.) That he might put an honour upon the first day of the week, and give a plain intimation of his will, that it should be observed in his church as the Christian sabbath, the weekly day of holy rest and holy convocations. That one day in seven should be religiously observed was an appointment from the beginning, as old as innocency; and that in the kingdom of the Messiah the first day of the week should be that solemn day this was indication enough, that Christ on that day once and again met his disciples in a religious assembly. It is highly probable that in his former appearance to them he appointed them that day seven-night to be together again, and promised to meet them; and also that he appeared to them every first day of the week, besides other times, during the forty days. The religious observance of that day has been thence transmitted down to us through every age of the church. This therefore is the day which the Lord has made.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,507
1,423
113
#82
Is that your only option in order to keep a non-pre-trib pov?

Why not answer the argument in a concise manner?

Why not refute the argument biblically?

Is it not because there is no biblical refutation for the argument that your exhortation is to ignore the pre-tribbers?
First time here, kid?
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#84
Also, I may not yet be fifty years old; however I would not classify myself as a "kid" because I am almost fifty (48).
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#85
Bless you. No sir we are not quite. For I believe 3 1/2 years belong before the rap. During that time antichrist is going to rage against everything called god or that is worshipped as god. He is going to seek to annihilate the church and will all but succeed.

As I read it during that period he will have some kind of pact with Israel while the temple is being built which when it is built he will break his pact and invade.

The church can expect no help from Israel during that time.

That great multitude which the Revelator saw in heaven which no man could number who he is told "these are they which have come out of great tribulation, they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

These are the end-time martyrs .... as I understand.
Well, we do differ here then. I believe that the entire seven years is the time of God's wrath, with the last 3 1/2 years being the great tribulation. However, the first seal with the rider on the white horse, which represents the emergence of the antichrist, will be opened at the on-set of the seven years. To be clear, I see the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments taking place during the entire seven years and not just the last 3 1/2 years.

In the middle of that seven years is when the antichrist sets up the abomination in the temple, which I believe is synonymous with the image that the false prophet has the inhabitants of the earth make.

Regarding why I believe that the seals and trumpets will beging from the beginning of the seven years , I will show you why in a following post..
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,507
1,423
113
#86
Yes; however I am not new to Christian Message Boards in general.

Why do you ask?
If you had been around earlier you would have seen the many posts refuting the pre-trib rapture.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#87
Well, we do differ here then. I believe that the entire seven years is the time of God's wrath, with the last 3 1/2 years being the great tribulation.


42 generation of Matthew 14+14+14 = 42 [note 14 tribes time the trinity = 3 times 14]

42 mockers Elisha and 2 bears My interpretation the 2 witness and mockers in all generations

42 House of death beth azamveth my guess you have to die to self

42 weeks = to 3 ½ years Jesus taught best guess

42 is equal to 3 ½ the time children of the spirit are taken out into the desert because the dragon = the devil tries to kill them. Also they hear testimony for the same amount of time

42 equal to 1260 days the gentiles trampled the temple

42 360 Ezra 2:64 360 days happens to be on a Jewis calendar that what these numbers are based on 360

There are 42 generations in the Gospel of Matthew's version of the Genealogy of Jesus; it is prophesied that for 42 months the Beast will hold dominion over the Earth (Revelation 13:5); 42 men of Beth-azmaveth Means house of death we must die to our old nature were counted in the census of men of Israel upon return from exile (Ezra 2:24); God sent two bears to maul the mocking children

Mat 1:17

from Abraham to David fourteen generations; from David until the carrying away into Babylon fourteen generations; the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ fourteen generations.

40 years until they died in the desert only 2 to made to the promise land = 42 Joshua & Caleb
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#88
42 generation of Matthew 14+14+14 = 42 [note 14 tribes time the trinity = 3 times 14]
What would lead you to apply the mathematical equation above?

42 is equal to 3 ½ the time children of the spirit are taken out into the desert because the dragon = the devil tries to kill them. Also they hear testimony for the same amount of time
You are referring to the woman of Rev.12, which are not the children of the Spirit, but represents the nation Israel (See Genesis 37:9-10
for the meaning of the sun, moon and twelve stars). The woman/Israel fleeing out into the wilderness for 1260 days (last 3 1/2 years) is synonymous with the fleeing mentioned in Matthew 24:15-22.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#89
Lets see vs Rev 12:4 1/3 fell from heaven leaving 2/3 of the angles = 66.6.The dragon wants to devour Jesus soon as he's born = He uses King Herod to try.She the spirit fled into the wilderness 1260 days = to 42 weeks 3/12 years. Israel the nation in the spiritual sense For a jew is one that's circumcised of the heart. Jesus himself said if my kingdom was of this world i would fight for it.Me Ray based that their of the children of the spirit on vs 17 of cp 12 of revelation.The dragon was angry with the women and went to make with her seed.note: in rebirth there is no Jew or gentile rather all are one in christ.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#90
Rays notes


42 generation of Matthew 14+14+14 = 42 [note 14 tribes time the trinity = 3 times 14]

42 mockers Elisha and 2 bears My interpretation the 2 witness and mockers in all generations

42 House of death beth azamveth my guess you have to die to self

42 weeks = to 3 ½ years Jesus taught best guess

42 is equal to 3 ½ the time children of the spirit are taken out into the desert because the dragon = the devil tries to kill them. Also they hear testimony for the same amount of time

42 equal to 1260 days the gentiles trampled the temple

42 360 Ezra 2:64 360 days happens to be on a Jewis calendar that what these numbers are based on 360

There are 42 generations in the Gospel of Matthew's version of the Genealogy of Jesus; it is prophesied that for 42 months the Beast will hold dominion over the Earth (Revelation 13:5); 42 men of Beth-azmaveth Means house of death we must die to our old nature were counted in the census of men of Israel upon return from exile (Ezra 2:24); God sent two bears to maul the mocking children

Mat 1:17

from Abraham to David fourteen generations; from David until the carrying away into Babylon fourteen generations; the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ fourteen generations.

40 years until they died in the desert only 2 to made to the promise land = 42 Joshua & Caleb
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#91
If you had been around earlier you would have seen the many posts refuting the pre-trib rapture.
Do any of them refute the argument presented?

That the time of Great Tribulation is a time of wrath (Zephaniah 1:14-15, Luke 21:23) and that God has not appointed us to wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9)?
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#92
Concerning the # .666 as being 2/3 of the angels.

This would refer to anyone who denies one of the members of the Trinity and who worships 2/3 of the Lord in their hearts.

If someone has the Holy Ghost, if they worship Christ alone, or the Father alone, then they have that number on them.

If someone does not have the Holy Ghost, if they worship Christ and the Father, they have that number on them.

If someone has the Holy Ghost and worships Christ and the Father, then the number that they have on them is 1/1.

If someone worships Christ alone or the Father alone and does not have the Holy Ghost, then they have bigger problems because they don't have the Holy Ghost. But technically, they also do not have the number .666 attached to their name.

If someone has the Holy Ghost they are not going to deny the Father and the Son (1 John 2:22).

If someone denies the Father and the Son then they have the spirit of Antichrist; no need to mention a number.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,507
1,423
113
#93
Do any of them refute the argument presented?

That the time of Great Tribulation is a time of wrath (Zephaniah 1:14-15, Luke 21:23) and that God has not appointed us to wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9)?
Of course.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#96
No. You can search this forum for the discussion.
No. Present it here, if it even exists.

Because I don't think it does; and that this is why you are failing to produce the goods.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,507
1,423
113
#97
No. Present it here, if it even exists.

Because I don't think it does; and that this is why you are failing to produce the goods.
What a rude assumption about someone you do not know. Had you read any of my posts you would know what I believe about the issue. You're now ignored.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#98
What a rude assumption about someone you do not know. Had you read any of my posts you would know what I believe about the issue. You're now ignored.
How very Christian of you...