Do unto others

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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
81
48
#1
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Jesus said we should do this. So if this is the law and the prophets then to teach that the law should not be adhered to at all is to teach that this command of Jesus is not to be obeyed.

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus did not come to get rid of the law or the prophets but to give clarity of their meaning.




The law and the prophets prophesied as it is written:

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Jesus said:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

These are good things yet they are the law as it is written:

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

If we do away with the law then we do away with love to God and to our neighbour. For they are what the law hangs on.




Jesus said:

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Notice that the law and the prophets prophesied till John, but now the kingdom of God is preached, Yet this does not mean one tittle of the law will fail.

Paul speaking of the law and the prophets said:

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

notice how they reasoned:

Act_28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

For the law and the prophets are a witness to the righteousness that comes by faith:

Rom_3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

So then we see that the law is good and holy and just.

Can you prove your points from the law and the prophets as they who were led by the spirit can?

For surely salvation is not of the law for if it was Abraham would be lost. But what do the prophets say:

Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

What is the promise of God via the prophets concerning the law?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Israel failed because they tried by their works, but the Gentiles did the things contained in the law because of their trust as it is written:

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

For Isaiah prophesied of a time when the Gentiles would join themselves to the Lord and keep the Sabbath:

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.


Anyway God bless and remember works of the law do not save, But salvation does not leave you a law breaker.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
331
83
#2
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Jesus said we should do this. So if this is the law and the prophets then to teach that the law should not be adhered to at all is to teach that this command of Jesus is not to be obeyed.

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus did not come to get rid of the law or the prophets but to give clarity of their meaning.




The law and the prophets prophesied as it is written:

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Jesus said:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

These are good things yet they are the law as it is written:

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

If we do away with the law then we do away with love to God and to our neighbour. For they are what the law hangs on.




Jesus said:

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Notice that the law and the prophets prophesied till John, but now the kingdom of God is preached, Yet this does not mean one tittle of the law will fail.

Paul speaking of the law and the prophets said:

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

notice how they reasoned:

Act_28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

For the law and the prophets are a witness to the righteousness that comes by faith:

Rom_3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

So then we see that the law is good and holy and just.

Can you prove your points from the law and the prophets as they who were led by the spirit can?

For surely salvation is not of the law for if it was Abraham would be lost. But what do the prophets say:

Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

What is the promise of God via the prophets concerning the law?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Israel failed because they tried by their works, but the Gentiles did the things contained in the law because of their trust as it is written:

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

For Isaiah prophesied of a time when the Gentiles would join themselves to the Lord and keep the Sabbath:

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.


Anyway God bless and remember works of the law do not save, But salvation does not leave you a law breaker.
I wonder if we could be any wiser on the question of 'Law-keeping' had Paul been more precise on WHICH laws were to be kept and which were blotted out ?
Obviously that is what happened ! but many christians will NOT separate between these laws and consequently there is much confusion....and they are unable to decide on the right thing whether to keep all or abolish all !
Actually NEITHER is right and they have a big problem they can not solve ! They must first learn that there is 'difference between holy ( sacred laws) and unholy (secular laws) ...which they REFUSE to do Lev 10v10.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,169
3,729
113
#3
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
This is integral to the Law of Christ, and the Law of Christ is binding on all Christians. So please note:

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:8-10)



 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,169
3,729
113
#4
I wonder if we could be any wiser on the question of 'Law-keeping' had Paul been more precise on WHICH laws were to be kept and which were blotted out ?
Actually Paul was quite clear. The laws which are no longer applicable are found primarily in the epistles to the Hebrews and the Colossians. They pertain to all the sacrifices, the tabernacle and temple, the Levitical priesthood, the feasts and the festivals, and all ceremonies in the Old Covenant. Christ FULFILLED (fully satisfied and brought to an end) these laws. The dietary laws no longer apply as indicated in 1 Timothy 4.

The important thing for Christians to understand is that you cannot have both Moses and Christ. And Moses would agree.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,443
615
113
#5
I wonder if we could be any wiser on the question of 'Law-keeping' had Paul been more precise on WHICH laws were to be kept and which were blotted out ?
Obviously that is what happened ! but many christians will NOT separate between these laws and consequently there is much confusion....and they are unable to decide on the right thing whether to keep all or abolish all !
Actually NEITHER is right and they have a big problem they can not solve ! They must first learn that there is 'difference between holy ( sacred laws) and unholy (secular laws) ...which they REFUSE to do Lev 10v10.
I believe shadow law like sabbath, animal sacrifice end after Jesus sacrifice on the cross. Now we living under 2 commandmen
love God and love fellow man.

love Fellow man consists of not kill, not hate, not jealous, etc

1corinthian 13 give detail of what is love. All the law of God base of love.

because He love, He do not want people kill each other, or hurt each other.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#6
[video=youtube;JGYjKR69M6U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGYjKR69M6U[/video]
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
331
83
#7
Actually Paul was quite clear. The laws which are no longer applicable are found primarily in the epistles to the Hebrews and the Colossians. They pertain to all the sacrifices, the tabernacle and temple, the Levitical priesthood, the feasts and the festivals, and all ceremonies in the Old Covenant. Christ FULFILLED (fully satisfied and brought to an end) these laws. The dietary laws no longer apply as indicated in 1 Timothy 4.

The important thing for Christians to understand is that you cannot have both Moses and Christ. And Moses would agree.
Sure, we are told about the 'commandments of ordinances/carnal works how they no longer apply today....but there are many christians who also INCLUDE the 'moral/spiritual Commandments which are eternal, holy, just and good....insisting they are Moses' law and abolished.
Until people recognize the difference there will be arguments and disagreements. Are you saying that Paul makes a 'distinct difference ? He does not, else people would know and not argue. There is a reason why Paul was vague and difficult to understand !
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
331
83
#8
I believe shadow law like sabbath, animal sacrifice end after Jesus sacrifice on the cross. Now we living under 2 commandmen
love God and love fellow man.

love Fellow man consists of not kill, not hate, not jealous, etc

1corinthian 13 give detail of what is love. All the law of God base of love.

because He love, He do not want people kill each other, or hurt each other.
Friend... a specific DAY is a REALITY....never a shadow....it is HERE today just as it was at Creatioin ! It is mentioned in the first 4 Commandments relating to 'loving GOD !!!
The other Commands you mention relate to loving man/neighbour....so why should they be more important than the first 4 ???
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
675
113
#9
Before they do unto you?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,169
3,729
113
#10
There is a reason why Paul was vague and difficult to understand !
Paul was definitely NOT vague or difficult to understand. As I showed from Romans 13, following Christ, he included all the Ten Commandments in the Law of Love (or the Law of Christ). Furthermore, Acts 15 clearly shows just four of the commandments from Moses as being applicable to all Christians. How much clearer can it get?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,169
3,729
113
#11
The other Commands you mention relate to loving man/neighbour....so why should they be more important than the first 4 ???
Are you forgetting that the first four commandments are all comprehended in the first and greatest commandment -- to love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength? Which includes to believe God, and to believe what Christ has said, and also revealed in His Word. Jesus is now the true Sabbath of the believer, and the first day of the week is the true Lord's Day (Rev 1:10). So if you are in the Spirit on the LORD's DAY, you are showing your love for God. New Testament Christians worshipped on the Lord's Day, not on the sabbath.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,443
615
113
#12
Friend... a specific DAY is a REALITY....never a shadow....it is HERE today just as it was at Creatioin ! It is mentioned in the first 4 Commandments relating to 'loving GOD !!!
The other Commands you mention relate to loving man/neighbour....so why should they be more important than the first 4 ???
colossian 2

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

why more important than first 4.


Matt 22


37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.


38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus is God and real sabbath. Why we love the shadow of Jesus, why not love Jesus instead. Before His coming we do the shadow of Him, now He was coming, do love the real friend.


 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
331
83
#13
colossian 2

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

why more important than first 4.


Matt 22


37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.


38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus is God and real sabbath. Why we love the shadow of Jesus, why not love Jesus instead. Before His coming we do the shadow of Him, now He was coming, do love the real friend.


Yes, do love the real friend....the one who kept the Sabbath !!!