Do verses with the word ''Man" in them mean women are excluded?

[BarlyGurl]

When in the Old Testament, you have women judges and prophets, and in the New Testament you have women prophets, deacons, and possibly one apostle, who can say that women cannot hold leadership positions or in those positions speak to men? Women are allowed to speak in church, just not in unruly way.

Well thanks Stephen! perhaps you could define what an "unruly way" looks like or the reader????

 

[Abiding]

Makes a sammy and waits....

 

[Reality]

Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Well, there you have it...

 

[piper27]

for the first time, this makes me chuckle; Its nice to see humour as an expression ! Thank you guys

 

[Abiding]

well that was sure real
thank reality

 

[Stephen63]

Id go slow on the Judge business without a definition. And description of what that
entailed...if you do you see her under authority

Yes on prophet

On deacons also unless you can describe the function and parameters biblically.
You cant make this position be qualified as an elder. Possibly it was even over woman.


Apostle? never heard that one unless you mean the Janias in romans. which
2 church fathers merely guessed who that was and didnt come up with an agreement.

Besides whoever it was was not like the 12 and still doesnt qualify them to be eldership.

Can woman talk in church? I agree they can as the bible instructs.

thats my story and im sticking to it

Judges 4 & 5 Deborah, a prophet-judge, once led the army of Israel into battle.
2 Kings 22:14 & 2 Chronicles 34:22 Huldah, a prophet, verified the authenticity of the"Book of the Law of the Lord given through Moses" -the Book of Deuteronomy.
Some say these women were allowed but should not have held these positions. But if God is with them, it's because He approves. When God approves, it is proper.

Philippians 4:2: Paul refers to two women, Euodia and Syntyche, as his co-workers who were active evangelicals, spreading the gospel.
Romans 16:1: Paul refers to Phoebe as a minister or deacon of the church at Cenchrea. The Greek word which describes her function is diakonos" which means literally official servant.
Romans 16:3 Paul refers to Priscilla as another of his
"fellow workers in Christ Jesus" (NIV). Other translations refer to her as a "co-worker".
Acts 18:24-26 24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
It is noted that no wife of a leader is mentioned in Scripture unless she is involved in the ministry. These two are always mentioned as a pair. Because Paul has mentioned them together as fellow laborers, they share the same ministry.
Romans 16:7 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
While there is an ongoing debate on whether Junia is an apostle, we can verify by this Scripture that she was considered very important(prominent) among the apostles, so she surely had a ministry position with her husband.

The actual outlawing of women ministers by the church did not happen until the fourth and fifth centuries. This of course was done by the Roman Catholic Church. Before these judgments, they were legal.

Council of Laodicea (352 CE): Women were forbidden from the priesthood. They also were prohibited from presiding over churches. They decided that "One ought not to establish in the church the women called overseers (presbutidas)....women must not approach the altar."

Fourth Synod of Carthage (398 CE) "A woman, however learned and holy, may not presume to teach men in an assembly...A woman may not baptize."

Council of Chalcedon (451 CE). Canon #15 of the Council states: "No woman under 40 years of age is to be ordained a deacon, and then only after close scrutiny." Apparently, the council wanted to start restricting the ordination of deaconesses, which must have been a common practice at the time. And, of course, anyone ordained to the Holy Order of Deacon would be eligible for later ordination to the priesthood as well.

What many of us do not realize is that some Protestant beliefs today are taken from the Roman Catholic Church, which is made up of mostly traditions that they believe is equal to the Scriptures. This should be reason enough to investigate the issue for ourselves, not just believing what our leaders tell us.

 

[Stephen63]

Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Well, there you have it...

well that was sure real
thank reality

1 Timothy 2:9-15 9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

I believe interpretation of Scripture has something to do with CONTEXT, which means interpreting the Scripture by the Scripture surrounding it. If this Scripture is talking about authority positions, then we would have to conclude:
1. Women should only dress modestly in church. They can dress any way they want to anywhere else.
2. The woman only has to learn in quietness and subjection only while they are in the church under church leaders.
3. Women can be saved in church while they are having children in the church. I wonder if a midwife can hold a position in the church?



Now doesn't that sound silly?


According to the context, this is general teaching to women. Not a single verse hints to leadership positions.
In its proper context, let's look at it again:
9-10 women are dressed modestly at all times and live a life that shows good works.
11 women in the church are to learn in silence from their spiritual leaders, which includes their husband.
12 women have no spiritual authority to command their husbands, neither to go over his head against his authority with the children.
15 is debatable among commentators.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Well, there you have it...

Oh here... let me serve you... <smiling sweetly>.... "She gave him milk. She offered him buttermilk in a royal bowl."