Do you believe I will never be of God's elect if I don't worship your view of God?

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Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,890
1,084
113
Oregon
#61
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1Cor 10:32-33 . . Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to
the church of God: even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit,
but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

The main idea here is tolerance, i.e. courtesy and sympathy with respect to cultural
differences.

Tolerance is especially useful in the USA where we have folks residing here from all
over the globe who've brought a variety of foreign religions and customs along with
them. We may not agree with of their religions and customs but if they are basically
harmless then it behooves us to indulge their presence for the sake of national unity.

BTW: Some time long ago, a pastor in Arizona utilized a highway billboard to poll
people's opinion not of Christianity, rather; what people think of Christians themselves.
Here's the gist of his message:

DESCRIBE CHRISTIANS WITH ONE WORD
Text Me @ xxxxxx-1152 (full number withheld for privacy considerations)

The results of the poll were open to view at iamlandonmacdonald on Instagram.

Some responses:

Hateful
Gullible
Ignorant
Satanist
Judgmental
Hypocritical

Personally I think bigotted should be given a place on that list.
_
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,624
5,896
113
#62
How do you know your view of God is correct? Why should I worship your view of God over someone else's view of God?
You should believe Jesus view of God and reject anyone telling you it’s not right
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,624
5,896
113
#63
You do not worship anyone's "view of God". Believers worship the true and living God, by the Spirit giving them a new heart when they are born again, born from above. Jesus revealed this here: jn4
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The Holy Spirit enables you to repent and believe the Gospel of the Kingdom. Without the Spiri ,you cannot believe.
So people already have the holy ghost before they believe ? And those who don’t believe , that’s because God didn’t make them able to believe ?
 
#64
[So people already have the holy ghost before they believe ? ]
As The Holy Spirit regenerates a Person, He gives them a new Heart and as Eph2 tells us...He quickens them from death to light, from darkness to light by granting them repentance and saving faith. It happens at one point in time as the Spirit indwells them.


[And those who don’t believe , that’s because God didn’t make them able to believe ?]
Having been born spiritually dead, in Adam, and living as enemies of God, and bound by their own sin they refuse to believe as they love
sin, rather than God and His word. from the 1689 Confession of faith


Paragraph 3
By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9


7 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5–6
9 Rom. 9:22–23; Jude 4
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,624
5,896
113
#65
Having been born spiritually dead, in Adam, and living as enemies of God, and bound by their own sin they refuse to believe as they love
sin, rather than God and His word. from the 1689 Confession of faith


Paragraph 3
By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9


7 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5–6
9 Rom. 9:22–23; Jude 4
hmmm
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
970
276
63
Pacific NW USA
#69
Yes, and GW reveals the following view of God:

According to the Bible/GW, God created everything else that exists (GN 1:1, JR 10:16, JN 1:1-3), including the ability by volitional beings (souls) to choose to rebel against His Lordship (GN 2:16, DT 30:19). Our finite minds cannot comprehend how God does this (IS 40:28). However, neither are we able to understand why the universe exists without God (JN 3:8). Theistic and atheistic cosmologies are both mind-boggling! Just as atheists believe that somehow the world always existed and somewhat intelligent beings evolved, so theists believe that for some reason the eternal Intelligence or Spirit of God created and pervades the physical universe, including the brains of those who freely will to spit in His face (RM 5:6-8, MT 27:30)! What God was doing before the creation of time/space is as inconceivable as nothing/atheism.

The NT concept/view of God, “the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God” (1TM 1:17), can be stated in terms of seven words. Four terms are used to describe (but not explain and certainly not “box in”) the supernatural power of God: omnipotent (almighty), omniscient (all-knowing/ intelligent), omnipresent (everywhere), and omnitemporal (eternal). “Natural laws” actually are God’s ongoing first miracle (RM1:20), and supernatural resurrection to judgment will be the final miracle (HB 9:27-28, 1CR 15:12-26).

If the NT is not too good to be true, then the Lord of the universe is neither dictatorial nor distant, but rather relates to humanity. Although we cannot comprehend the infinite God completely, hopefully we can do so sufficiently in order to achieve the type of relationship God desires to have with humanity (JN 14:9-25). God desires communion.

1. God’s omnipotence means that He can do everything except “disown Himself” or not be God (2TM 2:13). It does NOT mean that God can perform logical absurdities, such as creating a rock too large for Him to move. Omnipotence or sovereignty also means that human MFW has limits with regard to how it can contradict God’s will. God provides morally competent humans the ability to resist His intentional will and plan of salvation (POS) within limits, such as the time limit that will end with death, resurrection (the last miracle) and judgment (per HB 9:27)–called His permissive will.

2. God’s power is equivalent to His omniscience. Jeremiah wrote that “God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom.” (JR 10:12) Many NT passages refer to God as the source of true wisdom (e.g., ACTS 6:3, 1CR 1:25, CL 2:2-3, JM 1:5). God’s infinitely superior knowledge is extolled in Romans 11:33-34 (echoing IS 40:13-14) and Daniel 2:20-23.

Omniscience includes knowledge of people’s thoughts (PS 94:11, MT 12:25) and the foreknowledge of events (ACTS 2:23, RM 8:29, 11:2, 1PT 1:2). Some people think that God even knows what a person will be/do before that person exists (JR 1:5). If this view is correct, it must be maintained that God’s foreknowledge does not predetermine a person’s spiritual choice regarding the satisfaction of God’s requirement for salvation or else moral responsibility would be abrogated. I find it simpler to think that God merely tweaks the river of history occasionally to keep if flowing in the direction He intends but allows the fish to swim as they wish. God allows eddies in the river of salvation.

3. Omnipotence is connected with omnitemporality (in RV 1:18): “I am the Apha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Romans 1:20 refers to God’s “eternal power”, and Jeremiah 10:10&16 names God “the Lord Almighty”, who is true, living and eternal.

4. God’s infinite power implies omnipresence (per PS 139:7-8). God transcends spatial existence while being immanent in all points of space. (Other scriptural support for this view includes 1KG 8:27, IS 66:1, JR 23:33, ACTS 17:27-28 and EPH 4:6.) God’s superiority over His creation must be viewed as a matter of degree or quantitatively in order to preserve the continuity between God and humanity that would be requisite for communication (like the need for a common language and culture cited in Part I). However, the Bible teaches that God also differs from creatures in kind or qualitatively, so that attaining equality with Deity is impossible (IS 55:9, EPH 3:19). We can be like God (GN 3:3), and we can become one with the Son of God (JN 17:21-23), but we cannot become God (cf. Humanism).

In addition to the omni-attributes related to power, Paul referred to God’s “nature” (in RM 1:20), which may be described in three ways: love, truth and justice. These often are called the moral attributes of God.

5. The Bible says that God is love and true love comes from God (1JN 4:7-21, RM 5:5), so volitional creatures or souls can love only by reflecting, imitating or cooperating with the Creator’s love. Although the Bible speaks of God hating Esau (ML 1:3) and other evil people (HS 9:15), Jesus’ teaching of love for enemies (MT 5:44) reveals that God loves all creatures including Satan but hates their sinful choices.

It seems logical to assume that the all-loving God would create the best possible world or one in which the greatest percentage of persons may attain ultimate joy (1TM 2:3-4, 2PT 3:9). God may have created all possible kinds of worlds simultaneously: the world of dead matter, the world of living plants, the world of intelligent animals, and the world of morally accountable souls/humans. God’s world/way is best.

6. The Bible teaches that God is truth (JN 1:17, 8:40, 15:26, 17:17), so all truth is from God and manifests God’s Spirit. If any atheists are truthseekers, then they are not far from the kingdom of God (MK 12:34, 2THS 2:10, JN 18:37), because Jesus promised that those who seek will find (LK 11:9&13). Of course, if the truth is that there is no God or heaven, then what we believe is no more significant than the ideology of a rock or some other evolved collection of atoms (ECC 3:20)! Truth or God’s Word is represented in the Bible as light (JN 1:1-9), which also signifies God’s glory (LK 2:9).

7. The Bible also teaches that God is just (RM 3:25-26, 9:14, 2THS 1:6). This doctrine is called theodicy. It means that we should be careful lest our explanations of God’s will seem unloving or unfair. If a person cannot explain how a loving God could order the execution of babies (JSH 6:17, 8:2), then possibly He did not do so. Synonyms for justness include righteousness and goodness (IS 5:16).

Atheists have a negative or even demonic conception of God, which may be caused or reinforced by the words and deeds of those who claim to be theists (RM 2:24, 2PT 2:2). Who would want to believe in such a God? Rather than reject a caricature of God, an atheist should imagine the most perfect, loving and just God that he/she can, and choose to disbelieve in that benevolent Being, if good reason to do so can be found. God is NOT demonic!

What a person believes about the moral attributes of God affects how he or she interprets God’s Word in the Bible, which is called “hermeneutics”. A Scripture-based hermeneutic begins by believing that a person should triangulate from the NT teachings about love and justness in order to arrive at a correct understanding of problematic OT statements:

First, God loves and wants to save everyone (1TM 2:3-4, ACTS 17:26-28); Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (RM 5:6-8) including His enemies (ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ).

Second, God is just (2THS 1:6a, cf. RM 3:25-26 & 9:14, DT 32:4, PS 36:6, LK 11:42, RV 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (PS 145:17) The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (JL 2:13, JN 3:16). This affirms both that God is sovereign and that God chooses not to control moral thinking, because doing so would nullify human responsibility for sin, making the biblical revelation of salvation based on repentance irrelevant and absurd.
I certainly wasn't asking for all this, but going over it somewhat quickly it seemed very well thougtht out, and I likely agree with most of it. Yes, the infinite God can speak to us, but we can never fullly comprehend the point at which the infinite crosses over to the finite, because we are finite beings. Being that we are capable of understanding both that word and the sense of its point of origin, we *should* believe! :)