Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[PennEd]

1. John 15: "2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit ... 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Seems to be echoed in Romans 11:22: "22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

Yup. He says right here, those born again that do not bear fruit He takes away. They no longer have the opportunity to build "treasures in Heaven" , or rewards at the Bema Seat. He differentiates right in this passage between them, and those NOT IN HIM.

 

[arthurfleminger]

For those of you that have judged yourselves as being 'saved', good luck with that. Jesus will personally judge you as to your salvation or damnation. But good luck with trying to save yourselves and judging yourselves as 'saved'.

 

[BeeThePeace]

THe bible is very clear. the TAREs will be removed first. so if you look around one day and see many people missing. those are the TAREs gone. the next thing is CHRIST returning for his 1000yrs reign. Then the battle with the DEvil, then the New Earth and new Heavens

How it all happens is still to be seen.

It remains to be seen because the rapture has not yet come.

The Tares are taken first, you're right. They're taken to be thrown into the furnace. (Kaminos- https://biblehub.com/greek/2575.htm )
Matthew 13
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+13&version=MOUNCE


Not a positive to be first there.

 

[arthurfleminger]

For those of you that have judged yourselves as being 'saved', good luck with that. Jesus will personally judge you as to your salvation or damnation. But good luck with trying to save yourselves and judging yourselves as 'saved'.

John 12:47-48
If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

Beware ye all who have judged yourselves as being saved. Jesus' word will judge you on the last day.

For sure, you won't be saved until the last day when Jesus, Himself, passes judgement on you. Until then, it is folley for anyone to be judging themselves as being saved.


I

 

[BeeThePeace]

a
QUOTE="PennEd, post: 4848206, member: 160454"]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

Yup. He says right here, those born again that do not bear fruit He takes away. They no longer have the opportunity to build "treasures in Heaven" , or rewards at the Bema Seat. He differentiates right in this passage between them, and those NOT IN HIM.[/QUOTE]

If those in Christ could lose Salvation according to the vines passage I think we'd be hard pressed to explain passages that assure we cannot lose Salvation

The vines passage ,if we read it in context, is referring to nominal christians. Those who claim to be but clearly are not. Because a branch cut off from the source vine cannot produce fruit.

And too that's a reflection back upon Israel. Isaiah 5.

 

[arthurfleminger]

a
QUOTE="PennEd, post: 4848206, member: 160454"]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

Yup. He says right here, those born again that do not bear fruit He takes away. They no longer have the opportunity to build "treasures in Heaven" , or rewards at the Bema Seat. He differentiates right in this passage between them, and those NOT IN HIM.

If those in Christ could lose Salvation according to the vines passage I think we'd be hard pressed to explain passages that assure we cannot lose Salvation

The vines passage ,if we read it in context, is referring to nominal christians. Those who claim to be but clearly are not. Because a branch cut off from the source vine cannot produce fruit.

And too that's a reflection back upon Israel. Isaiah 5.[/QUOTE]

You say that those passages refer to 'nominal Christians'. What do you mean by 'nominal Christians'? And who do you think you are to be judging others as only 'nominal Christians'?

 

[BeeThePeace]

If those in Christ could lose Salvation according to the vines passage I think we'd be hard pressed to explain passages that assure we cannot lose Salvation

The vines passage ,if we read it in context, is referring to nominal christians. Those who claim to be but clearly are not. Because a branch cut off from the source vine cannot produce fruit.

And too that's a reflection back upon Israel. Isaiah 5.

You say that those passages refer to 'nominal Christians'. What do you mean by 'nominal Christians'? And who do you think you are to be judging others as only 'nominal Christians'?[/QUOTE]
If you read the passage you'll learn it is God who shall be the judge.

 

[JAPOV]

Only here on CC do Christians who claim to be Christians try to tear down other Christians...

 

[arthurfleminger]

You say that those passages refer to 'nominal Christians'. What do you mean by 'nominal Christians'? And who do you think you are to be judging others as only 'nominal Christians'?

If you read the passage you'll learn it is God who shall be the judge.[/QUOTE]

The fact is that YOU JUDGE OTHER CHRISTIANS to be less Christian than yourself. Well, good luck with that!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BeeThePeace]

Only here on CC do Christians who claim to be Christians try to tear down other Christians...

Though it is an example relative to the Matthew passage being discussed. 🤔😔

 

[BeeThePeace]

If you read the passage you'll learn it is God who shall be the judge.

The fact is that YOU JUDGE OTHER CHRISTIANS to be less Christian than yourself. Well, good luck with that!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE] I never did any such thing.
You're baiting.

You won't succeed in bringing me to your level.
I forgive you.🙏

 

[arthurfleminger]

a
QUOTE="PennEd, post: 4848206, member: 160454"]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

Yup. He says right here, those born again that do not bear fruit He takes away. They no longer have the opportunity to build "treasures in Heaven" , or rewards at the Bema Seat. He differentiates right in this passage between them, and those NOT IN HIM.

If those in Christ could lose Salvation according to the vines passage I think we'd be hard pressed to explain passages that assure we cannot lose Salvation

The vines passage ,if we read it in context, is referring to nominal christians. Those who claim to be but clearly are not. Because a branch cut off from the source vine cannot produce fruit.

And too that's a reflection back upon Israel. Isaiah 5.[/QUOTE]

I don't accept your judgement as to whether or not I'm a true Christian and not just a 'nominal Christian'. How dare you cast your judgement on me or others. Let Jesus judge. Who do you think you are??????????

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

this does not apply to Lazarus, lol

Well this is a good point actually! Lazarus wasn't resurrected, he was just woken up. That's where to be really born again and saved in the ultimate sense is the resurrection because we get the new bodies.

Also be patient with me anyone reading this i have over 20 some pings!

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

No, not again. Because that excerpt does not sustain your claim.

Remember, when you study scripture or any topic within, context is vital to understanding.

Sure it does, it's all about the resurrection. Paul was very interesting how he makes this claim at his trial because the Sadducees don't even believe in the resurrection while the Pharisees did, but they did not believe in Jesus who is their only hope for the resurrection. When Paul announces this the authorities had to whisk him away because they feared the insane mob would rip him apart.

 

[posthuman]

Then why does scriptures say...pray that the Holy Spirit never leaves you.....

hmm..

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Then please explain
then please explain this Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
According to scripture we are saved by one thing faith not the resurrection. For salvation is not a physical issue but a spiritual one if it were a physical one then yes a perfect new body would be required one that is flawless and without sin but it is a matter of the heart not body it is a matter of faith that we are saved.

Well faith in what? You can have faith in the Barney the dinosaur, in which case you have faith, but then are you saved? Not at all!

To be more to the point you have faith that Jesus, the begotten Son of God was born, crucified, and resurrected. Since if Christ is crucified and resurrected then the resurrection is true and at the resurrection you will be saved if you have faith in him and this. Now if to the contrary Christ is not resurrected, or there is no resurrection, all hope is in vain. Faith is good again, don't get me wrong, I am not saying faith is bad, I am not saying to not have faith in Jesus and his crucifixion and resurrection, but one must understand that the resurrection is a real thing and that's when you're really saved. Until that time anyone can lose that faith, so just saying you are saved means nothing. There are tons of examples of people that started in the faith, but did not finish the race.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

I agree - so I think, if Korah and his small army conspired to overthrow Moses, did Ananias and Saphira and others they represented also conspire to overthrow Peter?

I don't think so. I think it is the cares of the world choked them out. Which is really then the Parable of the Seeds is another good point to which I am trying to convey here.

In the Parable of the Seeds there are seeds that die for various reasons before ever the seed dies and the new body of the tree rises.

 

[posthuman]

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things
(Romans 11:36)
​

no one is created except by Him and through Him and of Him.
no one exists except He upholds them.

i wonder why John 15 goes on to say if anyone does not abide in Me, in verse 6?
what is the difference between being a branch "in Him" and a branch "abiding in Him" ?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Again, I agree the Spirit came upon Saul. Different from SEALING him.

"another heart" could simply mean He changed Saul's mind about being the king. In the previous chapter, Saul was reluctant to become King. One of the renderings of "heart" in that passage is mind, or will.

3820. leb
leb: inner man, mind, will, heart

Well how can King Saul have the Spirit but not be sealed by the Spirit when he was even made King by God? Saul believed in God's promises at one point, he had faith, he had the Spirit, but he lost the Spirit.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

You rely on your owe works. Again, you’re taking Paul out of context. I think you know you’re wrong because other scripture I have given you simply don’t acknowledge it.

I have not spoken of works, that's a whole other can of worms. Try not to ascribe personal things to me that I have not said, it is twisting your understanding of me.

I am pretty confident the scriptures are not wrong. My sense is the doctrines of man are wrong. I have acknowledged their scriptures, but they do not understand the element of faith/belief/hope and the actual resurrection which is what we are supposed to be having faith in as many of those scriptures do say that they post for me, yet they do not see it somehow very curiously.