Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Magenta]

To "repent and believe" are simply the means of receiving what God is offering. When a gift is received, the recipient did NOTHING to receive the gift. Taking the gift does NOT equal earning the gift or working for the gift.

I see this so seldom. So many say you must do this or you must do that The sinners' prayer of course being an example of a this or that. I never said the sinners' prayer. God showed me His unconditional love and forgiveness through the cross of Christ many years before I came to believe. He had personally, powerfully and profoundly revealed Himself to me more than once by then. I finally surrendered my opposition to Him. That was a long process over many years for me because I was so stubbornly set against Him and religion in general. Of course He knew that and all my reasons why. He knows us better than we know ourselves, and loves us any way, and desires us to come to knowledge of the Truth. So while I did eventually and finally repent of my rebellion against Him, I acknowledge that He made it possible for me to do so. Of my own volition without His intervention I do not believe I would have, or could have.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Do you believe what Jesus said?

In John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47 He said those who believe HAVE (as in possess) eternal life.
In John 10:28 He said He gives eternal life to His sheep (belevers) and they shall never perish.

I didn't give my answer as if it were a debate for me it isn't.

My post was a question, not a debate.

But it is ok to argee to disagree God bless.

Since you posted that you don't believe OSAS, then that means you can't believe all the verses I posted. Because they are too clear not to understand.

So, you are free to disagree with Scripture. But God won't bless those who do.

 

[Willow]

FreeGrace2 said:
Do you believe what Jesus said?

In John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47 He said those who believe HAVE (as in possess) eternal life.
In John 10:28 He said He gives eternal life to His sheep (belevers) and they shall never perish.

My post was a question, not a debate.


Since you posted that you don't believe OSAS, then that means you can't believe all the verses I posted. Because they are too clear not to understand.

So, you are free to disagree with Scripture. But God won't bless those who do.

Why does it bother you if I let you know it is not up for debate with me? By trying to belittle me in a casual way. We are supposed to give the truth in love. I just don't agree.

 

[Bluesproverb]

Do I believe in OSAS?
I believe in Jesus, so of course.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why does it bother you if I let you know it is not up for debate with me?

Why do you think I'm bothered? I was only asking a question.

Are you bothered that I asked the question? You seem a bit annoyed.

By trying to belittle me in a casual way.

How does that work? I just asked you a straightforward question. You made the claim about not believing in eternal security.

If you didn't want questions about that belief, or lack of, why did you even mention it?

We are supposed to give the truth in love. I just don't agree.

I asked my question so that I could give you "the truth in love". But you have made it very clear you don't agree with "the truth".

OK. No further questions.

 

[wattie]

I don't believe in in OSAS. Sometimes feel some use this as a reason to live like the world. Btw I said some.

Every Christian will have some kind of sin issue.. none are perfect.

Osas is about Jesus. All about His sacrifice and giving of eternal life.

If it is eternal life He gives, it means eternal. All the people I know personally that believe OSAS are actually the most faithful.. because they are secure.

A toddler confidently explores when they are securely attached to mum and dad. They can fully trust because mum and dad are doing their jobs by not leaving when they fail.

Like you say there are some who use osas as an excuse. I haven't come across that yet.

It is thinking worldly, not spiritually to go to the 'I can do whatever I want ' place.

It isn't like there is no consequences for sin for an osas believer. There is rebuke, admonishing and discipline, from the Holy Spirit and from church leaders. They may even be taken from the planet by God to discontinue sin. They would miss rewards in heaven. But not go to hell because Jesus forgives their sin.

 

[AndrewMorgan]

I'm unsure about this subject - I've heard both sides of the argument. 'Though if OSAS is true, I don't see how that squares with verses such as Heb 6:4, which states "It is impossible for those who were once enlightened...if they shall fall away, to renew themselves unto salvation, as they crucify the Lord afresh and expose Him to an open shame" and a similar statement by Paul, which says something like "If we sin wilfully after receiving God's grace, there is no (other way?) and results in a fearful expectation of wrath.

 

[AndrewMorgan]

A further thought: To OSAS believers: What if a hard-hearted person, who "has no time for God", hears the gospel and believes it - in the sense that he believes it to be true, without having any loyalty to godly things. He then curses God and rebelliously goes on a continuous ungodly way of life, having contempt for God 'til his last day and finally dies just after cursing God.
Would this man be saved?

 

[PennEd]

A further thought: To OSAS believers: What if a hard-hearted person, who "has no time for God", hears the gospel and believes it - in the sense that he believes it to be true, without having any loyalty to godly things. He then curses God and rebelliously goes on a continuous ungodly way of life, having contempt for God 'til his last day and finally dies just after cursing God.
Would this man be saved?

And at what point exactly was this fictional character born again?

When we’re born again, God gives us a new heart, to replace our “hard” heart.

Have YOU been born again?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

A further thought: To OSAS believers: What if a hard-hearted person, who "has no time for God", hears the gospel and believes it - in the sense that he believes it to be true, without having any loyalty to godly things. He then curses God and rebelliously goes on a continuous ungodly way of life, having contempt for God 'til his last day and finally dies just after cursing God.
Would this man be saved?

do you believe God when he said whoever has faith is not condemned?
do you believe when he says they also have eternal life (not conditional)
do you believe when he says the are given the spirit as a pledge UNTIL the day of redemption
do you believe when he says they will never be lost?
do you believe God when he says they will never die?
do you believe God when he says they will be raised by him?

 

[AndrewMorgan]

I'm not sure he was - that's the point! It seems that many people (I could give examples, if necessary) have believed in the sense I've described and have done a 180.
The question is still open - Would such a man be saved?
As to your further question - I "heard the gospel" in 1985 and was terrified. It is hard to think with hindsight as to what my thoughts were, but I'd I say I believed in the sense I've described and tried to follow Christ.
I've been troubled ever since.

 

[AndrewMorgan]

do you believe God when he said whoever has faith is not condemned?
do you believe when he says they also have eternal life (not conditional)
do you believe when he says the are given the spirit as a pledge UNTIL the day of redemption
do you believe when he says they will never be lost?
do you believe God when he says they will never die?
do you believe God when he says they will be raised by him?

 

[AndrewMorgan]

All your questions refer to a person who currently has EL, meaning OSAS is the case. You seem to be such a believer.
You may well be right, 'though I still think it leaves room for there being a tacit clause that it requires continuing faith. There are many passages in scripture which suggest this , which I'll refer to if necessary.
Would you care to answer my previous questions?

 

[AndrewMorgan]

I've got to leave the library now. I hope to discuss things further.
Hope to contact tomorrow.

 

[PennEd]

I'm not sure he was - that's the point! It seems that many people (I could give examples, if necessary) have believed in the sense I've described and have done a 180.
The question is still open - Would such a man be saved?
As to your further question - I "heard the gospel" in 1985 and was terrified. It is hard to think with hindsight as to what my thoughts were, but I'd I say I believed in the sense I've described and tried to follow Christ.
I've been troubled ever since.

Welcome to the site. Try and hit the "reply" button at the bottom right of the person you are addressing so we know who you are talking to.

To your point, I know scores of people that have heard the Gospel believed on some level, but aren't born again. So they are not saved, then fell away and are lost, they were never born again to begin with.

Here is THE gospel unto Salvation. Note that there are several elements to it that are ALL absolutely essential:

1. Confession of being a sinner, and inability to pay the debt owed for your sin.
2. Confession and belief that Jesus ALONE died to pay YOUR sin debt.
3. Confession and belief that Jesus IS God.(Lord)
4. Confession and belief that He rose from the grave on the 3rd day.

THE Gospel unto Salvation:
God wrapped Himself in human flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus the Messiah. Conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin. He suffered, was crucified, and died to pay OUR sin debt. He was raised to life from the grave to prove He had defeated death. If you confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that His Father resurrected Him to Life on the 3rd day, you WILL be saved. You will be filled, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will empower ALL to turn from their sins. The sin of adultery, lying, stealing, homosexuality, gossip, slander, drunkenness, covetousness, etc... And most importantly the sin of DEAD works, or a moral life in an attempt to EARN Salvation. He will also equip you to love like He did and do good works for HIS Glory.

 

[Chester]

do you believe God when he said whoever has faith is not condemned?
do you believe when he says they also have eternal life (not conditional)
do you believe when he says the are given the spirit as a pledge UNTIL the day of redemption
do you believe when he says they will never be lost?
do you believe God when he says they will never die?
do you believe God when he says they will be raised by him?

If your "they" in the last 5 statement is the "whoever has faith" of the first statement then I agree with all six.

If the "they" in any of these could include someone who does not have faith in the atoning death of Jesus Christ then I do not agree.

(And by the way, I do not believe in OSAS)

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm unsure about this subject - I've heard both sides of the argument. 'Though if OSAS is true, I don't see how that squares with verses such as Heb 6:4, which states "It is impossible for those who were once enlightened...if they shall fall away, to renew themselves unto salvation, as they crucify the Lord afresh and expose Him to an open shame"

All that is required is to understand what the verse actually says. Yes, it is used frequently to teach loss of salvation, but there are no clear words to express such an idea. In fact, your quote isn't what the Bible says.

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age
6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

v.4 and 5 establish that the writer was describing real believers, saved people.
v.6 says it is impossible for those who have fallen away, to be "brought back to repentance" . Your quote has the word "salvation" in it, but the Bible doesn't use that word for being "brought back to repentance". It isn't salvation they won't be brought back to.

Most people think that to "fall away" from the faith equals losing salvation. Yet there are NO verses that clearly make that point. Those verses are being misunderstood.

and a similar statement by Paul, which says something like "If we sin wilfully after receiving God's grace, there is no (other way?) and results in a fearful expectation of wrath.

That wasn't by Paul, but in Heb 10. Because Jesus' sacrifice was "once and for all", meaning for every body and every sin of every body, there is NO MORE sacrifice for sin. Why? Because Jesus' sacrifice covers all sins.

So, v.26 doesn't teach loss of salvation, but rather, God's painful discipline for those who "sin willfully".

 

[Chester]

I'm not sure he was - that's the point! It seems that many people (I could give examples, if necessary) have believed in the sense I've described and have done a 180.
The question is still open - Would such a man be saved?
As to your further question - I "heard the gospel" in 1985 and was terrified. It is hard to think with hindsight as to what my thoughts were, but I'd I say I believed in the sense I've described and tried to follow Christ.
I've been troubled ever since.

In such a situation as you describe (post 1308) someone who holds to OSAS must come to one of 2 conclusions:
(1) This person was never truly saved
0r (2) they were saved and are still saved and going to heaven in spite of cursing God and living very wickedly.

I do not hold to OSAS, and I simply ask this question:

Is this person today believing in Jesus Christ - in the atoning death and resurrection of the Son of God? This determines if they are saved or not.

I refuse to make a judgment call on their initial experience: only God knows if that was a real conversion or not.

 

[Chester]

I'm not sure he was - that's the point! It seems that many people (I could give examples, if necessary) have believed in the sense I've described and have done a 180.
The question is still open - Would such a man be saved?
As to your further question - I "heard the gospel" in 1985 and was terrified. It is hard to think with hindsight as to what my thoughts were, but I'd I say I believed in the sense I've described and tried to follow Christ.
I've been troubled ever since.

Where are you at today? Do you believe that you cannot achieve righteousness on your own merits and efforts? Do you have faith and only hope for redemption in Jesus Christ and his death and resurrection?

The above is the critical question: the critical question does not lie with a past event. (Though if a person has been born again, that past event was and is very, very important and very powerful!)

 

[FreeGrace2]

A further thought: To OSAS believers: What if a hard-hearted person, who "has no time for God", hears the gospel and believes it - in the sense that he believes it to be true, without having any loyalty to godly things. He then curses God and rebelliously goes on a continuous ungodly way of life, having contempt for God 'til his last day and finally dies just after cursing God.
Would this man be saved?

Yes. The Bible is very clear about this. These kinds of questions suggest that OSAS believers don't have any clear evidence from Scripture to back up their beliefs. And that would be quite wrong.

I'll give you the 2 best arguments from Scripture about eternal security.

Jesus taught in John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40 and 47 and John in 1 John 5:13, that believers HAVE or POSSESS eternal life. So, that means WHEN a person becomes a believer, since ALL believers possess eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

So, it couldn't be any more clear that once given eternal life, which is WHEN one believes, Jesus SAYS they shall never perish.

However, there is another passage that clearly teaches eternal security.

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Hm. Both verses end with the exact same words, "guaranteeing what is to come". And both verses base this guarantee on the Holy Spirit as a DEPOSIT.

So, what does all this mean? What is guaranteed, and how does one receive this deposit?

Well, glad you asked. Paul explained all this in Eph 1:13,14

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

I've color coded these verses to help follow and understand all that Paul meant.

The red words teach that on the basis of believing in Christ the believer is "included IN Christ". This is called "positional truth". Every believer shares in all that Christ has because every believer is IN Christ.

The blue words teach that on the basis of believing in Christ, God marks the believer with a SEAL, which is the promised Holy Spirit. This is when the indwelling of the Holy Spirit begins; at the moment of faith in Christ.

The green words teach eternal security because the believer's inheritance (as a child of God per John 1:12 and Gal 3:26) is GUARANTEED.

And then the purple words gives Paul's explanation WHEN that GUARANTEED INHERITANCE is realized; until the redemption of those who are God's possession.

So, just who are "God's possession"? Those who have been MARKED in him with a seal.

IOW, those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is on the basis of faith in Christ, ARE God's possession.

And the believer's inheritance is GUARANTEED.