Do you believe in this?
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E
lets think about this some
You start a relationship because you start based on belief you want a relationship with this person. As you grow together your faith should grow. If the person stops earning your trust, You will walk away, That is because the person is flawed.
When you start a relationship with God. He continues always to earn you trust (whenever you take a step of faith and trust him by doing what he says, he never lets you down) he will never give you a reason to walk away, Because he will never stop earning your trust,
thats why a person who has true faith and is born again will never leave. The people who leave could not have been saved, Which is why they feel God has stopped be trustworthy, because he has never done anything for them, Christianity apart from new birth is foolishness. unless your following religion. Which many people do. even to death, but its all they know.. People follow all kinds of religion to death (Islam, Mormonism, JW, Eastern religions etc etc)
This is why John made the statement, "They were never of us, if they were of us they would never have departed...."
You start a relationship because you start based on belief you want a relationship with this person. As you grow together your faith should grow. If the person stops earning your trust, You will walk away, That is because the person is flawed.
When you start a relationship with God. He continues always to earn you trust (whenever you take a step of faith and trust him by doing what he says, he never lets you down) he will never give you a reason to walk away, Because he will never stop earning your trust,
thats why a person who has true faith and is born again will never leave. The people who leave could not have been saved, Which is why they feel God has stopped be trustworthy, because he has never done anything for them, Christianity apart from new birth is foolishness. unless your following religion. Which many people do. even to death, but its all they know.. People follow all kinds of religion to death (Islam, Mormonism, JW, Eastern religions etc etc)
This is why John made the statement, "They were never of us, if they were of us they would never have departed...."
What is there to think about, when it is obvious that anyone who walks away from God never actually was with God?
Or, like some people, tragedy happened and ultimately they blame God.
These are God fearing, God loving, God trusting devoted people who when something happened blamed God for it and turned away.
I do not believe in OSAS... People can fall away from the truth.. People who once accepted the truth can turn again to disbelief..
Jesus parable of the sower of the seed clearly shows people accepting the gospel but later abandoning it..
The following passage shows people who have accepted the Way of Salvation but have later turn away from it..
2 Peter 2: KJV
17 "These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. {18} For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. {19} While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. {20} For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. {21} For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. {22} But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
Jesus parable of the sower of the seed clearly shows people accepting the gospel but later abandoning it..
The following passage shows people who have accepted the Way of Salvation but have later turn away from it..
2 Peter 2: KJV
17 "These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. {18} For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. {19} While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. {20} For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. {21} For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. {22} But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
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I am not refusing John. I (as I just explained in the new thread about OSAS) am trying to figure you out, by what scriptures you use and how you explain those scriptures on this particular subject.
But, I am also trying to understand if your views are from how you grew up environment, or how you become to believe on your own idealism?
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Lets look at john.
1. who is an antichrist?
1 John 2: 22
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
Ie, whoever is an unbeliever, a denier of christ. He is a liar, and an antichrist
2. Concerning these people who were once believers but no are unbelivers
1 john2: 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us
They were never saved, like the people in james, they claimed to have faith, ut their faith was non existent, they had belief inly
3. Concerning true believers.
1 John 2: 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
it does not take much, dont think to hard, just take john at face value, former believers who now deny christ in unbelief where never saved, period.
1. who is an antichrist?
1 John 2: 22
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
Ie, whoever is an unbeliever, a denier of christ. He is a liar, and an antichrist
2. Concerning these people who were once believers but no are unbelivers
1 john2: 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us
They were never saved, like the people in james, they claimed to have faith, ut their faith was non existent, they had belief inly
3. Concerning true believers.
1 John 2: 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
it does not take much, dont think to hard, just take john at face value, former believers who now deny christ in unbelief where never saved, period.
I see eternal security from both perspectives. On one hand we are Christ's workmanship:
Php. 1:6 “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:”
Heb. 12:2 “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”
On the other hand, I walked away from Christ and stayed away out of bitterness for a long time. God allowed that also. Was that episode for my spiritual betterment? According to Romans 8:28, yes it was. One thing for sure: now I am a lot more humble, than I was.
What would happen if we were in the world, denying Christ and walking in the flesh and we died. Granted God can keep us alive until we come back. I never stopped believing what God had taught me, so I never became an unbeliever. I cannot see any way to not believe in God that has directed my very steps at one time. Even now, I see God's hand in all my affairs.
Php. 1:6 “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:”
Heb. 12:2 “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”
On the other hand, I walked away from Christ and stayed away out of bitterness for a long time. God allowed that also. Was that episode for my spiritual betterment? According to Romans 8:28, yes it was. One thing for sure: now I am a lot more humble, than I was.
What would happen if we were in the world, denying Christ and walking in the flesh and we died. Granted God can keep us alive until we come back. I never stopped believing what God had taught me, so I never became an unbeliever. I cannot see any way to not believe in God that has directed my very steps at one time. Even now, I see God's hand in all my affairs.