Do you have an answer to this statement made by an atheist

[Deade]

to demonstrate the magnitude of God's unconditional love in it's most extreme form. Even if people choose spiritual death, God's heart aches for them, and God love them so much that God's heart is willing to ache for them for all eternity, rather than to take away their free will, even though it break God's heart to do so.

um, that's my attempt at going for the heart

One thing really upsets me. Most Christians say: God is trying to save as many as He can, before the end comes. Jesus Himself said broad is the way to death, but narrow is the road to life: a few find it. Well folks, God is not trying anything. God either does, or He does not. From the looks of things, God's plan of adding heirs to His household is off track.

God said: He is love. 1 John 4:8: "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." And yet, He is allowing for most people to be tormented in flames forever. He says most people that receive the mark of the beast were deceived into doing so. He said His church of first fruits will be a small peculiar people. Why would an Entity that calls Himself love project His own failure. Maybe, just maybe, He is doing something quite different.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

An atheist scientist made this statement. Could you give an answer to this atheist as though you are talking to him (not a fellow christian) being persuasive in your belief and not argumentative...
Here is the statement:
"Every description I've heard holds God to be all powerful and all good. And then I look around and I see a tsunami that killed a quarter million people in Indonesia. An earthquake that killed a quarter million people in Haiti. And I see earthquakes and tornadoes and disease, childhood Leukemia. And I see all of this and I say I do not see evidence of both of those being true simultaneously. If there is a God, the God is either not all powerful, or not all good. It can't be both."

i would first ask him where he gets his standard for good and evil...

as an imperfect man who doesnt believe in God ... his ....morality is subjective

there is no absolute


then i would tell him that to take a temporal event which holds little to NO weight in regards to "forever" and claim his morality is superior to Gods because he would have done something differently.... is ridiculous

especially seeing as how he also isnt all knowing and cannot see the "butterfly effect" or long term effects and events this temporal situation would lead to....


leaning on his own understanding as supreme while being far from all knowing could make God appear any way he wants Him to



(though id imagine id get cut off a lot and probably end up having to say much more than just this)

 

[OstrichSmiling]

An atheist scientist made this statement. Could you give an answer to this atheist as though you are talking to him (not a fellow christian) being persuasive in your belief and not argumentative...
Here is the statement:
"Every description I've heard holds God to be all powerful and all good. And then I look around and I see a tsunami that killed a quarter million people in Indonesia. An earthquake that killed a quarter million people in Haiti. And I see earthquakes and tornadoes and disease, childhood Leukemia. And I see all of this and I say I do not see evidence of both of those being true simultaneously. If there is a God, the God is either not all powerful, or not all good. It can't be both."

Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson
He had a small cameo in the movie Batman vs. Superman Dawn of Justice. The script concerning the character Lex Luthor and his remarks about God, being he had been an abused boy, were not all that original. Borrowing from Epicurus and others. And evidently Dr.Tyson caught that virus while on set. And thought to expound a bit to make his own strong Atheism remarks concerning God sound original. They're not. Not really. Even with a few original words thrown in to avoid being discovered as borrowing from "the other guys".

First came Epicurus, 270 B.C. A philosopher which I highly recommend as a read just for the information he afforded in that role in his time.

That being said:

Then came this, 2016. Batman v. Superman Dawn of Justice: Lex Luthor: The problem of you on top of everything else. You above all. Ah. 'Cause that's what God is. Horus. Apollo. Jehovah. Kal-El. Clark Joseph Kent. See, what we call God depends upon our tribe, Clark Jo, because God is tribal. God take sides. No man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from Daddy's fist and abominations. Mm-mm. I've figured it out way back, if God is all powerful, He cannot be all good. And if He's all good then He cannot be all powerful. And neither can you be. They need to see the fraud you are. With their eyes. The blood on your hands.

If I were face to face with Dr. Tyson? I'd remind him of Chelsea who last year asked him, do you believe in God?
And what he answered. “In the west, two thirds of scientists pray to a personal God — on the expectation that it will intervene in their day’s affairs. But I can tell you this, productive scientists do not bring their Bible, their scripture, their holy books into the lab because they do not mix there. So they draw a line in the sand and they do one in one place and then they worship on the weekend (Saturday or Sunday — whatever your religious tradition) there. So, to ask whether they can coexist; the answer is empirically, yes!”

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Here is a great refutation of "Lex Luthors" and by proxy Dr. Tyson's borrowing from that script and Epicurus to make his own pronouncements about God's goodness and the Tsunami's etc... that happen in the world.
I enjoy Dr.Tysons universe program. I do not give relevance to his opinion of God being he is an atheist. Odd how atheists who hold there can be no such thing seem to none the less fixate on the topic of that which they first declare isn't there. And call that far more logical than theism.
A Christian rebuttal to Lex's , Epicurus, Tyson's, opinions.
Lex Luthor’s Lousy Logic

 

[theanointedsinner]

Premise 1: if the universe has a beginning, then the universe has a cause
Premise 2: the universe has a beginning
Therefore, the universe has a cause

if atheist don't like the conclusion, which premise would they want to refute?
Premise 2 is backed up by the big bang
Premise 1, to deny that would be weird

so the universe has a cause for it's existence.

 

[RickyZ]

actually God is in charge,sure we hear of death every day,but also life as well,in fact it's funny someone simply questioning God's power by way of natural disasters,yet the person couldn't see that they themself were alive despite millions dieing,how??? God simple as that,instead of counting all who died the person should look at all who were spared instead,For there displays God protecting all powerfully those who he deemed fit,for read of lot,God was about to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah,yet he kept lot and his wife and children from harm,though his wife looked back as God forewarned her not to,and then Sodom and Gomorrah was utterly destroyed,God is always in control,what lacks is not his power but our faith,and to answer both questions God is powerful and good,for is anything too hard for God? Read of Job,God allowed the devil to do terrible things to Job but he wouldn't allow him to take his life,for he was his loyal servant,sure the devil got rid of some of Job's children and livestock through disasters such as the ones mentioned by this atheist scientist,but God restored what was lost to Job along with further blessings,now that is "true" power,using power for well what do you know"GOOD" not evil!!!

No. God is NOT in charge.

Just to paint the whole picture let's go back to the very beginning. The thing about God's sovereign will is that He generally chooses not to enforce it Himself. God created creation, and He was in charge of it. God then created man, and yielded His sovereignty to put man in charge of it. His deal with Adam was, I'll walk with you, talk with you, lend you an ear and give you advice, but what you say Adam, that’s what goes. You, Adam, are the authority.

So Adam then gives that authority away to satan. God could have, in His sovereign power, taken authority back from satan, but then that would put Him back in charge, and that was never His intent, His will. His intent/will was for man to have authority.

To restore what God intended/willed meant a man had to take authority back from satan. But who among us could do such a thing? Well, only God, coming to us as a man. So Christ comes and indeed takes back authority. But, He has yet to return to this world to enforce it. That's where our partnership comes in. It is our charge that we participate with Him in the enforcement of His authority over the yet-to-be restored, and therefore still under the rule of satan, creation.

God has, and always will have, the sovereign power to do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. You just have to understand that what He wants is to yield His power in order to enable us to participate with Him. So, in this world, He is only in charge as much as we participate in His being so.

 

[Ahwatukee]

An atheist scientist made this statement. Could you give an answer to this atheist as though you are talking to him (not a fellow christian) being persuasive in your belief and not argumentative...
Here is the statement:
"Every description I've heard holds God to be all powerful and all good. And then I look around and I see a tsunami that killed a quarter million people in Indonesia. An earthquake that killed a quarter million people in Haiti. And I see earthquakes and tornadoes and disease, childhood Leukemia. And I see all of this and I say I do not see evidence of both of those being true simultaneously. If there is a God, the God is either not all powerful, or not all good. It can't be both."

Hello Delphinium,

Yes, the answer is "Sin!" Everyone who comes into existence is in a separated state from God and on their way to condemning judgment. No one is deserving of salvation. If God wanted to, Jesus did not have to come in the flesh, kinning Himself to mankind in order to live a perfect life as a human being and then pay the penalty for our sins. He could have just let everyone die in their sins if He wanted to and would be righteous in His decision. Here's what Jesus had to say about this issue:

"Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

Replace those Galileans and those where killed by the tower of Siloam with all that the atheist scientist mentioned above. And there is going to be a lot more deaths for those who do not receive Christ prior to the church being gathered, for after the church is gathered, then comes the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which will decimate the majority of the population of the earth by the time that Jesus returns to the earth to end the age.

The answer to the atheist is, as well as everyone else is, believe in Christ and repent.

 

[theanointedsinner]

No. God is NOT in charge.

Just to paint the whole picture let's go back to the very beginning. The thing about God's sovereign will is that He generally chooses not to enforce it Himself. God created creation, and He was in charge of it. God then created man, and yielded His sovereignty to put man in charge of it. His deal with Adam was, I'll walk with you, talk with you, lend you an ear and give you advice, but what you say Adam, that’s what goes. You, Adam, are the authority.

So Adam then gives that authority away to satan. God could have, in His sovereign power, taken authority back from satan, but then that would put Him back in charge, and that was never His intent, His will. His intent/will was for man to have authority.

To restore what God intended/willed meant a man had to take authority back from satan. But who among us could do such a thing? Well, only God, coming to us as a man. So Christ comes and indeed takes back authority. But, He has yet to return to this world to enforce it. That's where our partnership comes in. It is our charge that we participate with Him in the enforcement of His authority over the yet-to-be restored, and therefore still under the rule of satan, creation.

God has, and always will have, the sovereign power to do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. You just have to understand that what He wants is to yield His power in order to enable us to participate with Him. So, in this world, He is only in charge as much as we participate in His being so.

in short, how do we trust God?

 

[joefizz]

No. God is NOT in charge.

Just to paint the whole picture let's go back to the very beginning. The thing about God's sovereign will is that He generally chooses not to enforce it Himself. God created creation, and He was in charge of it. God then created man, and yielded His sovereignty to put man in charge of it. His deal with Adam was, I'll walk with you, talk with you, lend you an ear and give you advice, but what you say Adam, that’s what goes. You, Adam, are the authority.

So Adam then gives that authority away to satan. God could have, in His sovereign power, taken authority back from satan, but then that would put Him back in charge, and that was never His intent, His will. His intent/will was for man to have authority.

To restore what God intended/willed meant a man had to take authority back from satan. But who among us could do such a thing? Well, only God, coming to us as a man. So Christ comes and indeed takes back authority. But, He has yet to return to this world to enforce it. That's where our partnership comes in. It is our charge that we participate with Him in the enforcement of His authority over the yet-to-be restored, and therefore still under the rule of satan, creation.

God has, and always will have, the sovereign power to do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. You just have to understand that what He wants is to yield His power in order to enable us to participate with Him. So, in this world, He is only in charge as much as we participate in His being so.

Oh really???
How is it that "more times than satan"God "Lead" people to "Victory" and "even" over threw more cities and kingdoms than satan?
satan is merely the prince of this world basically a "governor" likened unto Joseph when he was second hand to pharaoh he has "access" to the world and "power" over the world but God has "overruled" him many many many many times,did I mention "Many times"?
Who is "In Charge" again Ricky?

 

[joefizz]

in short, how do we trust God?

You get off the fence that hurts so badly that's how.

 

[Zmouth]

Premise 1: if the universe has a beginning, then the universe has a cause
Premise 2: the universe has a beginning
Therefore, the universe has a cause

if atheist don't like the conclusion, which premise would they want to refute?
Premise 2 is backed up by the big bang
Premise 1, to deny that would be weird

so the universe has a cause for it's existence.

The big bang is not predicated upon the beginning of space, matter, time or energy since energy and matter can neither be created nor destroyed according to the first law of thermodynamics, they can only change from one form to another.

Thus, according to the big bang theory, all space, matter, time and energy always existed. All the big bang did was transform all the space, matter, time and energy that existed from it previous form into a highly condensed state which resulted in their rapid expansion from that condensed state to form of our currently known and observed universe.

So actually premise No. 2 should be the universe always existed, therefore it had no beginning of existence.

 

[RickyZ]

Oh really???
How is it that "more times than satan"God "Lead" people to "Victory" and "even" over threw more cities and kingdoms than satan?
satan is merely the prince of this world basically a "governor" likened unto Joseph when he was second hand to pharaoh he has "access" to the world and "power" over the world but God has "overruled" him many many many many times,did I mention "Many times"?
Who is "In Charge" again Ricky?

John 14:12 - Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Who will do these things?

WE will do these things. Even tho God has the ultimate power to do anything, He wants US to do them.

Our soldiers in Iraq - are they in charge of Iraq? NO. They are able to affect individual circumstances here and there, but being the ultimate military power in the world, they are none the less NOT in charge of Iraq. They are just an occupying force in a hostile environment.

It's the same with us. We are just an occupying force in satan's world. We can affect individual issues here and there, but in the end, we/God are not in charge. Again, even tho God is the ultimate power, He chooses to yield that power in order to allow our participation.

Tell me this, God says we will lay hands on the sick and they will recover. It is Gods power that heals - but absent our participation, absent our intercession and laying on of hands, will that person be healed? If God is in charge, why do we need to be involved?

 

[calibob]

An atheist scientist made this statement. Could you give an answer to this atheist as though you are talking to him (not a fellow christian) being persuasive in your belief and not argumentative...
Here is the statement:
"Every description I've heard holds God to be all powerful and all good. And then I look around and I see a tsunami that killed a quarter million people in Indonesia. An eartohquake that killed a quarter million people in Haiti. And I see earthquakes and tornadoes and disease, childhood Leukemia. And I see all of this and I say I do not see evidence of both of those being true simultaneously. If there is a God, the God is either not all powerful, or not all good. It can't be both."

YES, THIS ONLY A TEST to see if we can become worthy, where we are and time itself are only temporary, The thing that becomes real for eternity only happens after judgment when all of the truth is revealed. Life is like diaper rash, it goes away.

 

[joefizz]

John 14:12 - Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Who will do these things?

WE will do these things. Even tho God has the ultimate power to do anything, He wants US to do them.

Our soldiers in Iraq - are they in charge of Iraq? NO. They are able to affect individual circumstances here and there, but being the ultimate military power in the world, they are none the less NOT in charge of Iraq. They are just an occupying force in a hostile environment.

It's the same with us. We are just an occupying force in satan's world. We can affect individual issues here and there, but in the end, we/God are not in charge. Again, even tho God is the ultimate power, He chooses to yield that power in order to allow our participation.

Tell me this, God says we will lay hands on the sick and they will recover. It is Gods power that heals - but absent our participation, absent our intercession and laying on of hands, will that person be healed? If God is in charge, why do we need to be involved?

Need to be involved?
Since when does God need anyone to establish his Kingdom, has he not done all things in his own time with or without us?
We are "privileged" to be apart of serving him we are not "needed" by him for doth not judgement day come with or without us?
Will not Jesus "Triumph" over this world and satan and the beast whether we choose to accept Jesus or not?
It would appear you are putting far too much faith in "the power of man" and "the stature of man", we are all given a "possible" role only because God "decides to" in his mercy and compassion.

 

[CS1]

An atheist scientist made this statement. Could you give an answer to this atheist as though you are talking to him (not a fellow christian) being persuasive in your belief and not argumentative...
Here is the statement:
"Every description I've heard holds God to be all powerful and all good. And then I look around and I see a tsunami that killed a quarter million people in Indonesia. An earthquake that killed a quarter million people in Haiti. And I see earthquakes and tornadoes and disease, childhood Leukemia. And I see all of this and I say I do not see evidence of both of those being true simultaneously. If there is a God, the God is either not all powerful, or not all good. It can't be both."

the fact that you can judge good and bad proves you have a moral understanding of right and wrong. Christian have no issue with your question because we know The world was not created this way in the Beginning; from a Biblical world view. The Bible teaches us that sin has caused this. Yet even with all of these natrual events that kill people God expect us to do good. some year ago the hubble scope sent back it last picture of earth before it was out of range to see it anymore. the earth was this > . big in the picture and surrounded by space dark and alone. YET our seas have not over ran the whole earth, the cycle of the earth produces life all done each day by who? or what ? radom chance ? Cause & effect are well known

 

[OstrichSmiling]

No. God is NOT in charge.

Just to paint the whole picture let's go back to the very beginning. The thing about God's sovereign will is that He generally chooses not to enforce it Himself. God created creation, and He was in charge of it. God then created man, and yielded His sovereignty to put man in charge of it. His deal with Adam was, I'll walk with you, talk with you, lend you an ear and give you advice, but what you say Adam, that’s what goes. You, Adam, are the authority.

So Adam then gives that authority away to satan. God could have, in His sovereign power, taken authority back from satan, but then that would put Him back in charge, and that was never His intent, His will. His intent/will was for man to have authority.

To restore what God intended/willed meant a man had to take authority back from satan. But who among us could do such a thing? Well, only God, coming to us as a man. So Christ comes and indeed takes back authority. But, He has yet to return to this world to enforce it. That's where our partnership comes in. It is our charge that we participate with Him in the enforcement of His authority over the yet-to-be restored, and therefore still under the rule of satan, creation.

God has, and always will have, the sovereign power to do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. You just have to understand that what He wants is to yield His power in order to enable us to participate with Him. So, in this world, He is only in charge as much as we participate in His being so.

That is a very interesting perspective. I know the writing that says God gave man dominion over things. I'd wonder if you would post the scriptures that sustain all that you've observed there?

You recall how God worked with Satan in the Book of Job? God put constraints on Satan and how far he could go to test Job's loyalty to God. If Satan was put in charge by man as you say that constraint by God who was in charge enough to limit Satan's actions would seem to contradict that idea.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

You get off the fence that hurts so badly that's how.

Love that cat. Reminds me of my precious little girl who lived to be in her 20's. They could be twins.

 

[RickyZ]

Need to be involved?
Since when does God need anyone to establish his Kingdom, has he not done all things in his own time with or without us?
We are "privileged" to be apart of serving him we are not "needed" by him for doth not judgement day come with or without us?
Will not Jesus "Triumph" over this world and satan and the beast whether we choose to accept Jesus or not?
It would appear you are putting far too much faith in "the power of man" and "the stature of man", we are all given a "possible" role only because God "decides to" in his mercy and compassion.

Replace the word 'needed' with 'wanted'. God does not NEED our participation. But God does WANT our participation. And the only way we can participate is by Him yielding His sovereign power. Yes God can say "I'm going to do such and such". But instead He says "I want YOU to do such and such in My Name". BIG difference.

 

[RickyZ]

That is a very interesting perspective. I know the writing that says God gave man dominion over things. I'd wonder if you would post the scriptures that sustain all that you've observed there?

You recall how God worked with Satan in the Book of Job? God put constraints on Satan and how far he could go to test Job's loyalty to God. If Satan was put in charge by man as you say that constraint by God who was in charge enough to limit Satan's actions would seem to contradict that idea.

If I put up scripture, are you going to actually consider them or use them for target practice?

 

[RickyZ]

Gen 1:
28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

Mat 10:
1Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
2These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;4Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,a drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

John 14:12 - Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Just for starters. In each case, God empowered the people to do something He himself was quite capable of doing on His own.