Do you observe the Sabbath?

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Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
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let’s just cut to the bottom line then: the Sabbath wasn’t voided anywhere in the entire Bible.

You may be able to create a theology where you can justify believing that, but in doing so, such as when said the law was nailed to the cross, you must also accept that the other commandments are voided.

You can’t have a law crucified on a cross in one sentence and then Paul turning around in another sentence and saying don’t sin, giving specific examples found in the very crucified law. That sort of inconsistency is problematic.

This is probably less of a deliberate attempt on your part (and others) to introduce voluntary sin into doctrine and more of an error in hermeneutics. I can guess that you’re probably anti-water baptism, anti-any works, and OSAS. Is it true? If so, I can see why you are anti-Sabbath as well.

As for me, I require biblical consistency.
LoL, gotta love that last line, implying that I do not require Bible consistency! Very loving... not.

In my opinion, the Sabbath-(keeping) was very much "voided" in the sense that it's an external thing like the rest of
the 10 Commandments and every other law of the O.C.

Scripture is very clear that with the coming of the New Covenant, the Old Covenant passes away... all of it, Commandments especially.
For example:
Eph. 2:14-16 (ESV) 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

Furthermore, the writers of the New Testament give many warnings to Christians to avoid the false gospel of those that try to incorporate aspects of the O.C./Law into the finished work of Jesus Christ. Doing that kinda' "un-does" what Christ did for us.
Gal. 2:21 (ESV) I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

And I'm aware that many folks that hold similar beliefs to yours, try to insist that you're not saying that keeping the Law aides in our salvation... the message still comes out that if we don't keep the Law, we are sinning, and therefore might lose our salvation. And that is so contrary to the Gospel and Scripture, that it really makes me sad and angry. Sad for the people still living under the curse of the Law and angry that you teach others to do the same. (But God is in control of these things, and I find peace in that).

The thing that I think that a lot of Christians misunderstand about this subject is that while Scripture is clear that we are no longer under any of the Law... it's also clear that God's Law is written on our hearts and minds.
See, God's laws can be also seen as God's will for mankind. And God is immutable. So, any "moral" aspects of God's Law/will remain and are, most importantly, in us. The O.C. is all external, while the N.C. is internal. The Old is all about the flesh/carnal man... the New is all about the spiritual man/life. There is no more list of Do's and Don'ts... we now have an intimate relationship with God and have actual access to God, through Jesus Christ... we can enter into the Holy of Holies, which was not possible under the O.C. And with that intimate relationship, God through His Holy Spirit sanctifies us daily, teaching us how follow His will (or if you prefer, follow His Law).
We, who hold similar beliefs to my own, aren't "introducing" a method of willful sin... we stand in the presence of God every day... and we strive to do His will as any child would want to be obedient to his Loving Father. Nobody can accuse us of anything anymore, as God is dealing with each of in a very unique way. And it is life-changing, and glorious.

(BTW, the same is true of the promises of the O.C., follow the commandments and life and the land will go well with you. Whereas, in the N.C., we aren't promised a great life here on earth, but we are given great spiritual rewards/benefits both now and increasingly better in eternity with Glory!)

Regardless, the commandments were and are unobtainable in this life... all of them, even the 10. Jesus showed that when He spoke about, thou shalt not kill also includes the idea of having a demeaning attitude towards your brother... as you showed me with the implication that I don't look for Bible consistency. ;) And the stuff He said about not committing adultery goes deeper into lusting in our hearts after someone. The point being, as humans we are totally incapable of not sinning, somehow, somewhere. I often wonder about people that cling to the 10 Commandments how well they do at honoring their parents? In today's society it seems that people think that they are honoring of their parents by simply not (grossly) dishonoring them, lol. I think the idea of honoring parents was much, much different back in ancient Jewish culture. So, if you think that you are keeping the Sabbath the way that God intended way back then... I'd be interested to know how you're doing that! However, I'd prefer you to realize that the Sabbath is type or shadow of Jesus Himself, and the rest that we take is having faith in His finished work. That is true rest... a true sabbath.

If you want to keep the Commandments because it seems good to you... fine by me. I just think that shaming others for not continuing to live under the curse isn't a good thing. Sorry to be so long-winded.
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
448
83
This is probably less of a deliberate attempt on your part (and others) to introduce voluntary sin into doctrine and more of an error in hermeneutics. I can guess that you’re probably anti-water baptism, anti-any works, and OSAS. Is it true? If so, I can see why you are anti-Sabbath as well.
Forgot to address this part... sorry.

You seem to like to assume a lot about people, huh? Do you type-cast people and put them into little boxes too, lol.
I wish that you could see how unjust this is and hurtful.
Framing it in the form of questions doesn't take away from what's clearly implied... so don't try to escape using that old chestnut.

Please don't assume things about me and ascribe to me things that you don't like.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Forgot to address this part... sorry.

You seem to like to assume a lot about people, huh? Do you type-cast people and put them into little boxes too, lol.
I wish that you could see how unjust this is and hurtful.
Framing it in the form of questions doesn't take away from what's clearly implied... so don't try to escape using that old chestnut.

Please don't assume things about me and ascribe to me things that you don't like.
Sorry, I meant no ill-will, but the reality can't be ignored forever. I did give you the benefit of the doubt that it isn't deliberate. I think we are all guilty of mishandling the word of God occasionally, some more than others. Rather than playing the victim, try petitioning to God for wisdom. Best wishes.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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LoL, gotta love that last line, implying that I do not require Bible consistency! Very loving... not.

In my opinion, the Sabbath-(keeping) was very much "voided" in the sense that it's an external thing like the rest of
the 10 Commandments and every other law of the O.C.

Scripture is very clear that with the coming of the New Covenant, the Old Covenant passes away... all of it, Commandments especially.
For example:
Eph. 2:14-16 (ESV) 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

Furthermore, the writers of the New Testament give many warnings to Christians to avoid the false gospel of those that try to incorporate aspects of the O.C./Law into the finished work of Jesus Christ. Doing that kinda' "un-does" what Christ did for us.
Gal. 2:21 (ESV) I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

And I'm aware that many folks that hold similar beliefs to yours, try to insist that you're not saying that keeping the Law aides in our salvation... the message still comes out that if we don't keep the Law, we are sinning, and therefore might lose our salvation. And that is so contrary to the Gospel and Scripture, that it really makes me sad and angry. Sad for the people still living under the curse of the Law and angry that you teach others to do the same. (But God is in control of these things, and I find peace in that).

The thing that I think that a lot of Christians misunderstand about this subject is that while Scripture is clear that we are no longer under any of the Law... it's also clear that God's Law is written on our hearts and minds.
See, God's laws can be also seen as God's will for mankind. And God is immutable. So, any "moral" aspects of God's Law/will remain and are, most importantly, in us. The O.C. is all external, while the N.C. is internal. The Old is all about the flesh/carnal man... the New is all about the spiritual man/life. There is no more list of Do's and Don'ts... we now have an intimate relationship with God and have actual access to God, through Jesus Christ... we can enter into the Holy of Holies, which was not possible under the O.C. And with that intimate relationship, God through His Holy Spirit sanctifies us daily, teaching us how follow His will (or if you prefer, follow His Law).
We, who hold similar beliefs to my own, aren't "introducing" a method of willful sin... we stand in the presence of God every day... and we strive to do His will as any child would want to be obedient to his Loving Father. Nobody can accuse us of anything anymore, as God is dealing with each of in a very unique way. And it is life-changing, and glorious.

(BTW, the same is true of the promises of the O.C., follow the commandments and life and the land will go well with you. Whereas, in the N.C., we aren't promised a great life here on earth, but we are given great spiritual rewards/benefits both now and increasingly better in eternity with Glory!)

Regardless, the commandments were and are unobtainable in this life... all of them, even the 10. Jesus showed that when He spoke about, thou shalt not kill also includes the idea of having a demeaning attitude towards your brother... as you showed me with the implication that I don't look for Bible consistency. ;) And the stuff He said about not committing adultery goes deeper into lusting in our hearts after someone. The point being, as humans we are totally incapable of not sinning, somehow, somewhere. I often wonder about people that cling to the 10 Commandments how well they do at honoring their parents? In today's society it seems that people think that they are honoring of their parents by simply not (grossly) dishonoring them, lol. I think the idea of honoring parents was much, much different back in ancient Jewish culture. So, if you think that you are keeping the Sabbath the way that God intended way back then... I'd be interested to know how you're doing that! However, I'd prefer you to realize that the Sabbath is type or shadow of Jesus Himself, and the rest that we take is having faith in His finished work. That is true rest... a true sabbath.

If you want to keep the Commandments because it seems good to you... fine by me. I just think that shaming others for not continuing to live under the curse isn't a good thing. Sorry to be so long-winded.
The Bible commands the Sabbath is Hebrews 4. Not keeping it is an act of disobedience.

Hebrews 4
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,679
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Sorry, I meant no ill-will, but the reality can't be ignored forever. I did give you the benefit of the doubt that it isn't deliberate. I think we are all guilty of mishandling the word of God occasionally, some more than others. Rather than playing the victim, try petitioning to God for wisdom. Best wishes.
Oh forgot to add this part, I didn't accuse you. I framed it as a question. You are free to not answer it if you wish.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
9,265
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The Bible commands the Sabbath is Hebrews 4. Not keeping it is an act of disobedience.

Hebrews 4
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
You know that Sabbath-rest is Jesus, right?
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
448
83
The Bible commands the Sabbath is Hebrews 4. Not keeping it is an act of disobedience.

Hebrews 4
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
The writer is talking about Jesus Christ there... He is our sabbath rest.
I understand that you don't accept that.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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The Greek in Hebrews 4:9 is σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos). It doesn't refer to the seventh-day Sabbath, but to the idea of resting or repose. "Sabbath" describes the kind of rest: that is, resting from our works (v. 10). It only appears one time in the New Testament.

The word usually used for the seventh-day Sabbath is σάββατον (sabaton).
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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It's a shame so many English translations render it "Sabbath rest." It should be "sabbath rest." The KJV and NKJV just say "a rest." This isn't quite right either.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Okay this is what I am seeing.

1. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath because the law was nailed to the cross, but we gotta keep the other 9 commandments even though those other 9 commandments were also nailed to the cross.

2. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath because Jesus is the Sabbath even though the Bible never says that.

3. Don’t gotta keep the 7th day Sabbath because it changed to Sunday even though the Bible never says that.

4. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath because the word Sabbath in Hebrews 4:9 somehow doesn’t mean Sabbath.

5. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath because it’s a work when Sabbath keeping is about not working.

6. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath even though New Covenant Christians in the Bible did it.

7. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath because it isn’t convenient.

If I didn’t miss anything then I’ll leave y’all to it. If explaining away all of the reasons to keep the Sabbath is what you want then you’re free to do it.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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Okay this is what I am seeing.

1. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath because the law was nailed to the cross, but we gotta keep the other 9 commandments even though those other 9 commandments were also nailed to the cross.

2. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath because Jesus is the Sabbath even though the Bible never says that.

3. Don’t gotta keep the 7th day Sabbath because it changed to Sunday even though the Bible never says that.

4. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath because the word Sabbath in Hebrews 4 somehow doesn’t mean Sabbath.

5. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath because it’s a work when Sabbath keeping is about not working.

6. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath even though New Covenant Christians in the Bible did it.

7. Don’t gotta keep the Sabbath because it isn’t convenient.

If I didn’t miss anything then I’ll leave y’all to willfully explaining away all of the reasons to keep the Sabbath as illegitimate.
You're right about one thing: Don't gotta keep the Sabbath. Unless maybe you're Jewish and you believe you're sinning if you don't.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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The law came as a schoolmaster showing that no one could keep it perfectly, which grades a big red "F" for "fail."

But supposedly, we can take a retest if we think we can pass this time...
 

Inquisitor

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Mar 17, 2022
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God judges us on what we know.
You don't need a law about not killing to know it is wrong.
If i listen to my conscience and not murder, steal, commit adultery or lie, I'm instinctively doing the right thing, without a knowledge of the law, I'm a law unto myself.
Most religions teach us not to lie or steal.
God has asked us to remember the Sabbath, and keep it holy. It is the only law that seperates God as the creator and the time each week is so valuable.

We can make excuses and say it doesn't matter. Like an evolutionist you'll always find reasons to not believe.
The command is there in the middle of the 10 commandments and God said remember it.
The sabbath was made for GENTILES too.
Will a person know, if they are not under the law, that getting drunk is a sin?

I do not think that people know that drunkenness is a lethal sin, the same as murder or stealing.

Gluttony and drunkenness are the two most common sins, I have witnessed during my life.

So what specific sins is it possible for a Gentile to display a self awareness of?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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If Jesus gives you and me the righteousness that He lived (perfect robe of righteousness), we are seen as perfect without fault. By faith we recieve that perfect robe.
So the faithless are not covered by Jesus's righteousness, so they are judged by their own works and are guilty before God.

Do we make void the law?
Because of grace and mercy do we sin?

If Jesus said please remember the sabbath day each week because i gave all for you and love you.
Would you do it?
The sabbath law magnifies our sin.

The law makes us aware of our sin.

Where there is no law there is also no violation.

Give any person a law and they will transgress it.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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The sabbath was made for man..
Mar 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Man = a human being, whether male or female, generically, to include all human individuals.

The sabbath was made at creation before gentile or Jew.

Heb 4:9-10
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

As God did = God rested on the 7th day.
The sabbath was given as a commandment in Exodus.

Before Exodus there is no evidence of the sabbath commandment.

Physical circumcision was a commandment given to Abraham.

Heb 4:9-10
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Have you rested from the works of the law?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,264
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The Bible commands the Sabbath is Hebrews 4. Not keeping it is an act of disobedience.

Hebrews 4
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
Jesus is my Sabbath rest :)
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Jesus is my Sabbath rest :)
That’s what people keep saying. I’ll accept it when I see a verse proving it.

And if I may, since Jesus is your Sabbath rest, what did you do to make every effort to enter into that rest in order to not perish due to disobedience?