Do you observe the Sabbath?

[Inquisitor]

It’s grace through faith and faith isn’t a gift.

Do you know what grace is? It isn’t unmerited favor. Unmerited would mean that grace is received regardless of what someone does. If grace was unmerited then there would be literally nothing required on your part to be saved, not even having faith, believing, etc. In fact, one wouldn’t even be required to believe in God and they could reject Jesus from cradle to the grave and still get a ticket to heaven.

Sorry my friend, but that isn’t how it works and it’ll never work that way. Your faith and obedience to God are required. Being a Christian isn’t an idle faith of doing nothing.

Your incorrect.

It’s grace through faith and faith isn’t a gift.

Faith is a gift and so is the measure of your faith.

Why?

Because you cannot have faith without God's grace, as the first cause.

Basic belief (faith) is written into the creation by Jesus.

Even sinners believe in lots of things, it is a fundamental human trait.

Do you know what grace is? It isn’t unmerited favor. Unmerited would mean that grace is received regardless of what someone does.

Exactly, that is why you can ask for forgiveness and be forgiven.

Grace, unmerited favor, extends into the past, the present, and into the future.

God has taken care of your rebellious nature, your lack of holiness, by granting that salvation is by grace, UNMERITED.

Here, let Peter take over.

Acts 15:9-11
And He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Since this is the case, why are you putting God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our forefathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

 

[Runningman]

Still failing to understand the gift of salvation.

Rest in what Christ has done for you.

Hebrews 4:3
For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My anger, They certainly shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Salvation is a free gift and you cannot do anything else, but accept that gift by believing in Jesus.

Grace = unmerited favor

Grace = God's unconditional love for you.

Once again, Jesus alone is the one responsible for your salvation, rest in Him.

We will discuss your obedience and disobedience, another day.

no grace is not unmerited favor. Again, if grace was unmerited then it wouldn’t be through faith.

thank you for keeping replying. I’m doing a study on how modern doctrines in the church are deceiving the flock with tactically-chosen doctrines. Do you belong to a particular denomination and if so which one?

 

[Inquisitor]

That is against the bible principles.
I don't believe it is Jesus plus our holiness.

It is Jesus plus Jesus plus Jesus = Holiness.

I believe Jesus wants us to be holy like He was holy and that by grace through faith He empowers us to be Holy.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Will you accept the gift of salvation, freely granted to you by grace through faith?

Or will you overcome the world and your pleasures, your lusts, by a sheer, brute, act of your will.

You are saved because of what Jesus has done and the gift is unmerited.

Please, don't openly boast of your overcoming the world on judgement day.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

Your still confusing your powerful acts of holiness with the reconciliation, that Jesus gave us.

So much noise, chaos, rest in Christ.

 

[Inquisitor]

no grace is not unmerited favor. Again, if grace was unmerited then it wouldn’t be through faith.

thank you for keeping replying. I’m doing a study on how modern doctrines in the church are deceiving the flock with tactically-chosen doctrines. Do you belong to a particular denomination and if so which one?

I asked you earlier for your definition of 'grace', but you refused to submit that definition.

So I am unsure what you mean, when you use the word 'grace'.

 

[Inquisitor]

no grace is not unmerited favor. Again, if grace was unmerited then it wouldn’t be through faith.

thank you for keeping replying. I’m doing a study on how modern doctrines in the church are deceiving the flock with tactically-chosen doctrines. Do you belong to a particular denomination and if so which one?

I belong to the Inquisition and available for hire.
I enforce church doctrine with an iron rod, no give or take.

 

[Runningman]

Your incorrect.
Faith is a gift and so is the measure of your faith.

Which verse says faith is a gift then?

Because you cannot have faith without God's grace, as the first cause.

Basic belief (faith) is written into the creation by Jesus.

I think you’re just making things up at this point.

Luke 8
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

your doctrine has God giving faith people and then losing it. Not Biblical. Jesus said people lose faith due to times of testing.

Grace, unmerited favor, extends into the past, the present, and into the future.

Good to dig a little deeper to get to the root of your misunderstanding of grace.

As I keep telling you, if grace was unmerited then faith wouldn’t be required. Whether the faith was from yourself or from God. That’s called Universalism and it’s a false doctrine.

God has taken care of your rebellious nature, your lack of holiness, by granting that salvation is by grace, UNMERITED.

You’re putting meritorious requirements on grace by saying there’s anything that needs to be taken care of. If grace is unmerited then nothing needs fixing because with grace comes salvation.

Here, let Peter take over.

Acts 15:9-11
And He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Since this is the case, why are you putting God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our forefathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

They were saved by their faith and the grace come from Jesus.

Read Hebrews 11 and James. Faith is your faith and requires your action to be valid. God isn’t making you do anything or He would literally need to control you like a puppet to make you act on your faith.

 

[Mem]

no grace is not unmerited favor. Again, if grace was unmerited then it wouldn’t be through faith.

thank you for keeping replying. I’m doing a study on how modern doctrines in the church are deceiving the flock with tactically-chosen doctrines. Do you belong to a particular denomination and if so which one?

how passive aggressive of you, and so spiritually abusive. I had thought better of you up to now.

 

[Inquisitor]

You seem stuck on Ephesians 2, but other parts of the Bible elaborates about grace whereas Ephesians 2 doesn’t.

You’re under grace if you’re not under God’s law. You’re not under God’s law if you are led by the Spirit. If you’re under God’s law you’re under grace. This is very clear from Galatians 5.

Being led by the Spirit is measurable by specific thing you as a human chose to do because being led by the Spirit you are supposed to be following. On the other hand, you can consciously and deliberately seek after the things of the flesh and possibly not inherit the kingdom of God if they become your practice.

I keep repeating this and I guess I have my work cut out for me.

So you’re not understanding the Ephesians 2 “saved by grace” mantra you keep repeating.

Grace isn’t unmerited. Faith is your faith. Grace is God’s grace. The result is your salvation which is a gift from God. You got it all wrong and if this didn’t matter for the possible salvation of your soul I wouldn’t be here helping.

I cannot proceed without your definition of 'grace'?

 

[Runningman]

I belong to the Inquisition and available for hire.
I enforce church doctrine with an iron rod, no give or take.

The only thing I’m seeing about the Inquisition on the Internet relates to the Catholic Church. Are you Catholic?

 

[Runningman]

how passive aggressive of you, and so spiritually abusive. I had thought better of you up to now.

Sorry to hear you think that about me. I still think highly of you.

 

[Runningman]

I cannot proceed without your definition of 'grace'?

Grace means favor or good will. Ever been in someone’s good graces or knew about someone who was in someone’s good graces and then one day they weren’t? It’s because the word grace doesn’t mean it’s unmerited nor does the Bible say it.

 

[Inquisitor]

Which verse says faith is a gift then?


I think you’re just making things up at this point.

Luke 8
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

your doctrine has God giving faith people and then losing it. Not Biblical. Jesus said people lose faith due to times of testing.




Good to dig a little deeper to get to the root of your misunderstanding of grace.

As I keep telling you, if grace was unmerited then faith wouldn’t be required. Whether the faith was from yourself or from God. That’s called Universalism and it’s a false doctrine.



You’re putting meritorious requirements on grace by saying there’s anything that needs to be taken care of. If grace is unmerited then nothing needs fixing because with grace comes salvation.



They were saved by their faith and the grace come from Jesus.

Read Hebrews 11 and James. Faith is your faith and requires your action to be valid. God isn’t making you do anything or He would literally need to control you like a puppet to make you act on your faith.

Here is what you said.

Which verse says faith is a gift then?

Faith is a gift.

Acts 3:16
16 And on the basis of faith in His name, it is the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all.

Philippians 1:29
For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe (faith) in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf.

Belief and faith are the same Greek word.

I hope your not thinking that your faith in Jesus was sourced from inside yourself?

 

[Inquisitor]

Grace means favor or good will. Ever been in someone’s good graces or knew about someone who was in someone’s good graces and then one day they weren’t? It’s because the word grace doesn’t mean it’s unmerited nor does the Bible say it.

God's love, grace, gifts, are all unmerited. You deserved none of them.

Grace = unmerited favor.

Paul was saved by grace and so was Peter, neither had sufficient holiness to blow out a candle.

 

[Mem]

Sorry to hear you think that about me. I still think highly of you.

It's okay, I keep in mind not to put too much weight on any regard of what I think of others nor of what any others think of me.

 

[Runningman]

Here is what you said.



Faith is a gift.

Acts 3:16
16 And on the basis of faith in His name, it is the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all.

Philippians 1:29
For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe (faith) in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf.

Belief and faith are the same Greek word.

I hope your not thinking that your faith in Jesus was sourced from inside yourself?

Neither of those verses say faith is a gift.

The first verse says faith comes through Christ.

The second verse says faith is granted for Christ’s sake, not given by Christ.

Faith is a work that you do.

John 6
29Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

 

[ItsAdventageous]

For those of you who believe that nothing has changed from the old covenant of law to the new covenant in regards to the 10 commandments (including the 4th commandment) had better get busy enforcing the law. Good luck with that!

Exodus 21:15 - And he who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 21:17 - And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 22:19 - Whoever lies with an animal shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 22:20 - He who sacrifices to any god, except to the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
Exodus 31:15 - Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does anywork on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 20:10 - The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
Leviticus 24:16 - And whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall certainly stone him, the stranger as well as him who is born in the land. When he blasphemes the name of the Lord, he shall be put to death.

They shall "surely be put to death", but it will take some time.

God in the beginning, said that "thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." It took 930 years ish.

 

[JimmyM]

Some have argued in this forum if you’re gonna support keeping the Sabbath we’ve got to stone all lawbreakers or at least those under the old covenant where stoning to death was the immediate punishment. I don’t think they have thoroughly thought through what they are saying.

Hebrews 10

28 Anyone who has ignored the Law of Moses is put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much more severe punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

God is Lord over all his creation. Who are we to instruct the Lord on what is right, what is wrong, even what is fair or not. Under the old covenant God ruled directly over his people understood to be a theocracy. For some egregious sins which only God knows fully why, death penalties were immediate.

According to Hebrews, we are under the Spirit of Grace. That doesn’t mean because one is not immediately punished that he goes scott free. His punishment will ultimately come as he stands before a living God.

So there is no logic in thinking if we keep the Sabbath, we should also then stone all Sabbath breakers, adulterers, children who rebel as it was under the old covenant. For whatever reasons known only to God, he has chosen today to deal with his people unlike he dealt with Israel under that first covenant.

God has chosen to deal with his creation through grace for now, however it must have been a gross enough sin to bring Ananias and Sapphire’s lives to an end, perhaps because of its affect on the community as a whole. Same with the sin of Achan at JERICHO where punishment was exacted at AI. Many innocent lives were lost as a result of Achan’s sin. Yet we are not totally for sure all those that died were innocent. Three thousand rebels died on the day they made a calf to worship at Mt. Sinai. God knows the heart and we do not, only he is able to judge correctly and we must leave that judgment of life and death in his hands. God is not mocked.

 

[Inquisitor]

They shall "surely be put to death", but it will take some time.

God in the beginning, said that "thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." It took 930 years ish.

They had ruptured their relationship with their creator. From that moment onwards, they were subject to death.

 

[Inquisitor]

Some have argued in this forum if you’re gonna support keeping the Sabbath we’ve got to stone all lawbreakers or at least those under the old covenant where stoning to death was the immediate punishment. I don’t think they have thoroughly thought through what they are saying.

Hebrews 10

28 Anyone who has ignored the Law of Moses is put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much more severe punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

God is Lord over all his creation. Who are we to instruct the Lord on what is right, what is wrong, even what is fair or not. Under the old covenant God ruled directly over his people understood to be a theocracy. For some egregious sins which only God knows fully why, death penalties were immediate.

According to Hebrews, we are under the Spirit of Grace. That doesn’t mean because one is not immediately punished that he goes scott free. His punishment will ultimately come as he stands before a living God.

So there is no logic in thinking if we keep the Sabbath, we should also then stone all Sabbath breakers, adulterers, children who rebel as it was under the old covenant. For whatever reasons known only to God, he has chosen today to deal with his people unlike he dealt with Israel under that first covenant.

God has chosen to deal with his creation through grace for now, however it must have been a gross enough sin to bring Ananias and Sapphire’s lives to an end, perhaps because of its affect on the community as a whole. Same with the sin of Achan at JERICHO where punishment was exacted at AI. Many innocent lives were lost as a result of Achan’s sin. Yet we are not totally for sure all those that died were innocent. Three thousand rebels died on the day they made a calf to worship at Mt. Sinai. God knows the heart and we do not, only he is able to judge correctly and we must leave that judgment of life and death in his hands. God is not mocked.

The law tells you what to do with the lawbreakers. If your under the law, then you need to obey the law.

There is no thinking to undertake. The law identifies those who need to be stoned.

The law tells you your a sinner because you transgress the law.

There is not a righteous person on this planet. No one is innocent.

Romans 5:20-21
The Law came in so that the offense would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, so also grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Runningman]

How about we chock this thread up to this:

If you earnestly don't want to keep the Sabbath then don't. Currently, even though it is a requirement, your disbelief in it wouldn't be helpful or pleasing to God. Without faith it is impossible to please God. If you come to a place of maturity and find that Sabbath keeping is for you because you believe it honors God to keep His 10 commandments, then do it, absolutely.