Does 1 Corinthians 3:15 REALLY teach that saints who backslide and never repent only forfeit rewards?

[Guojing]

I don't know what you don't understand. Because I gave a couple of sentences explaining how we look at grace, then you say you want numbers. Put 'em in yerself. Gutbye.

I just realized you don't really understand what is an argument. It consists of premises and conclusion.

Here is a guide. http://www.uky.edu/~rosdatte/phi120/lesson1a.htm

 

[John146]

Some Christians believe that if a saved person enters into a sinful lifestyle and fails to repent then he will still get to heaven but will lose rewards. Their proof text is 1 Cor. 3:13-15 which say, “his work will be shown for what it is … the fire will test the quality of each man’s work … If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames”. Notice that these verses are referring to the testing of a man’s work, not sin.

If the passage in 1 Cor. 3-4 was talking about sin then it would be saying –
I) Those who build with good, golden sins will be rewarded.
II) Those who build with not so good, straw sins will lose their rewards.
Of course this is ridiculous. Whoever heard of building a church with sin or God rewarding someone for sin? In this article, I would like to show that these verses are not speaking about sin in the least but about how we work to build the church on the foundation of the gospel of Jesus.
Beginning with 1 Cor. 1:11- 13 and 1 Cor. 3:1-8, these verses tell us that the Corinthians were fighting about whether they should follow Paul, Apollos or Cephas. Paul said that their focus should be on Jesus because men are mere servants with assigned tasks; one man plants, another waters and each man will be rewarded according to his own labour. Next, in 1 Cor. 3:9-11, he continues on to say that we are God’s workers, His field and His building (His church) and that he, Paul, has laid a foundation as an expert builder and each of us must be careful how we build on that foundation, which is Jesus Christ.
Then 1 Cor. 3:12-15 talk about how we build the church and warn that fire will test the quality of each man’s work. The verses say that we can –
a) Build with gold, silver or costly stones and receive our reward or
b) Build with wood, hay or straw and, although we will still be saved, our work will be burned up.
Building with gold, silver or costly stones represent good leadership and sound doctrine while wood, hay and straw represent poor leadership and unsound doctrine. Sin is not in question here.
So far, Paul has spoken about building the church with either good or poor leadership and doctrine but now he continues on to speak about bad leadership and doctrine which destroys a church. 1 Cor. 3:16-17 say, “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is sacred, and you [plural] are that temple”. The term “God’s temple” is referring to the church, the body of Christ, and these verses say that God will destroy anyone who destroys His church (see 2 Pet. 2).
Then, from 1 Cor. 3:18, Paul continues on to further warn us not to follow men. In 1 Cor. 4:6 he sums up what he has said so far (from 1 Cor. 3:1) by saying that he has applied these things to himself and Apollos so that we could learn the meaning of the saying, “’Do not go beyond what is written.’ Then you will not take pride in one man over against another”. He is saying that the entire passage is to warn us not to follow men but to stay with what is written. In 1 Cor. 4:2 he said, “it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful”, and it is by not going beyond what is written that we remain faithful to that trust.
So we can see that this passage of scripture has nothing to do with sin. It is a warning for us not to follow men’s wisdom but to use the written Word to build on the foundation of Jesus because our rewards will be according to the way we build.

• If we build with sound biblical doctrine then we will be rewarded.
• If we build with poor doctrine then we will still be saved but lose our rewards.
• If anyone destroys the church then he will be destroyed.

If we attempt to make sin the context of this passage then it will make no sense at all as words like build, labour and work don’t relate to sin. Likewise, sin can’t be related to building with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay and straw unless we say that we will be rewarded for good sins and lose our reward for bad sins. The fact is, sin is not the subject of this passage.

To make it a bit clearer, let’s consider a Christian who dies while refusing to repent of his adultery. Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) believers will say that he will still get to heaven but lose some rewards. This is entirely out of context with the passage in question as the man was not building on the foundation of Jesus while he was in adultery, he was just fulfilling his lusts. He wasn’t building the church while he remained in sin, he was just building his condemnation. The truth is, this passage is taken entirely out of context by OSAS believers. An unrepentant sinner will not suffer a loss of rewards for his sin but eternal condemnation.

Not to be funny, but serious question:
What if one gets shot and killed during the act of adultery?

 

[AuntieAnt]

Not to be funny, but serious question:
What if one gets shot and killed during the act of adultery?

I heard some TV evangelist respond to this question. His answer was: "Don't commit adultery."

Seriously, Read Romans chapter 8.

 

[garee]

This 100 %ly lines up with what I believe:

The rewards are the same .Just what we bargained for eternal life or called a penny in the parables. Not one cent more or a penny less .

Matthew 20:13But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

Remember without grumbling or murmuring (I worked harder, I deserve more) It is Christ who works I us with us to both will and do his good pleasure . he who is not served by human hands makes one differ from the other.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputingshilipians 2:13-14

The works of presenting the gospel seed, knowing only God can cause the growth will not go un noticed. God will not forget the good works we offer in respect to His name. The unbeliever can lose the reward of the work of sharing in the work seeing it came to no effect. But it would not make God's call to go out into the world with the life changing gospel . It has no effect on the penny we will receive.

 

[dcontroversal]

You should sum up what is in this video. Many (including myself) will not view videos.

He believes the loss of salvation...EVEN THOUGH IT STATES SAVED YET SO AS COMING THE THE FIRE.......If salvation can be lost no one is saved.....!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Judas is a fine example of the loss of one. Jesus said so Himself.

It is idiotic to believe Judas was saved and then lost it....

A. A devil from the beginning
B. Never CLEAN
C. THE son of perdition
e. Thief

etc.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen to the original post. 1Cor3:15 refers to a lazy Christian; not to be confused with the person in Heb10:29, who was once sanctified, but has now willfully rebelled and is on his way to hell.

10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Hahahhahaha.........shakes head at the total lack of regard for the context of the whole chapter and cherry picked verses to peddle that which the bible does not teach!!

 

[dcontroversal]

No. I believe the Bible teaches that if one never repents then they are not saved. You cannot be saved without repentance.

I also believe that if someone is saved but wholly turns away, then "there is no sacrifice for sins left" (Hebrews 10:26)

So Christ needs to be nailed up every time you sin!

Either your sin debt is paid or it isn't......

I suggest a study of IT IS FINISHED......

man you guys love to devalue Christ and what he has done.....very shameful and dishonest!!!

 

[garee]

No. I believe the Bible teaches that if one never repents then they are not saved. You cannot be saved without repentance.

Cant repent (comfort oneself) unless God not seen gives a person ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. He must do the first works as a our love, hearing Him not seen. Then we in turn can repent a face the childish ways we have .

Why does God repent if not to ease his own self of judgment when applying mercy?

 

[Budman]

It amazes me how so many people do not know the definition of the words "gift" and "grace".

 

[lightbearer]

Nice, from my experience debating with Christians who love to use that James verse, faith without works is dead, they tend to rely on circular reasoning:

You only need to believe to be saved, no works required.
But if you don't show works after you are saved, you are not really saved, because it shows you don't really believe.
Yet, you only need to believe to be saved, no works required.

And so on and so forth. Their definition of faith clearly includes works. But they don't want to contradict Paul so they sneak in works thru the backdoor, by relying on circular arguments.

What does Paul say Faith is.

 

[lightbearer]

It amazes me how so many people do not know the definition of the words "gift" and "grace".

lol

 

[lightbearer]

It's not about where you are in the middle of life, its about where you are at the end of life. Will you be found in a state of belief or unbelief? We are talking about the kind of belief mentioned in Hebrews 3:12; the kind of belief that keeps us from departing from the living God.

3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Hebrews is one of my favorites!
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
(Heb 3:12-19 KJV)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. With whom was he grieved forty years? Was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? As God have sworn in HIS wrath they shall not enter into my Rest! So we see that they could not enter therein because of unbeleif! Those that sinned! Hardened through the deceitfulness of sin; UNBELIEF!

Hence the use of the word disobedience being used by Mickelson enhanced Strong's in their defining the Greek word translated UNBELIEF....

G570 ἀπιστία apistia (ap-is-tee'-ah) n.
1. faithlessness
2. (negatively) disbelief (lack of Christian faith)
3. (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience)

I like what Wuest states in his work, Word Studies Volume 1 and 2. He says...

(3:19) The word "unbelief" is the translation of apistia, a compound of the usual word for "faith" in the New Testament with Alpha privative prefixed to negate the word. Their disobedience led to their lack of faith. At the root of all unbelief is sin. Lack of faith in God's Word is never purely an intellectual thing. At its basis is the love of sin.
Translation: So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

 

[John146]

..If salvation can be lost no one is saved.....!!

Agreed! Did y’all hear that everyone? If salvation can be lost, then none of us have any hope. None!

 

[mailmandan]

What does Paul say Faith is.

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (NASB)

 

[mailmandan]

Also, not just a lack of belief, but also a lack of works, because faith without works is dead (book of James). Belief without works is not faith, and there is no salvation apart from faith in Jesus Christ the Son of God.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit) and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

Remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

John17

17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are].
17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

If the son of perdition is lost, then he was not included in those that Christ died for because Jesus said that he would raise them all up at the last day.

 

[Guojing]

What does Paul say Faith is.

Believe and speak 2 Corinthians 4:13

 

[John146]

Remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Actually, James is answering the question, “can faith save him?”

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Can faith alone, no works, save a man?

 

[mailmandan]

Actually, James is answering the question, “can faith save him?”

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Can faith alone, no works, save a man?

Can that faith save him? NO. What kind of faith is that? Empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works. (James 2:14) The kind of faith that remains alone - "barren of works" cannot save and it's not because we are saved by works, but because works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of the kind of faith that does save. Faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is faith that saves. (Ephesians 2:8,9)