Does anyone know of....

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I was made alive in Christ while I was yet dead in my trespasses and sins. I believe that is the correct order of events for all. At some point after that, perhaps it was a number of years? My heart was circumcized. That is a must for everyone also, for the natural man cannot love God otherwise, for he is hostile in his mind toward Him. Being drawn by God and having God reveal Himself to me personally in a number of ways over a period of many years finally convinced me of the Truth of God's revealed written Word and in the sacrifice His Son made for me in spilling His righteous blood on my behalf, that I might have life more abundant, be reconciled to God, and escape the second death. It was at this point I was sealed with the Holy Spirit of God, and had the right to call myself one of His children.


Ephesians 1:13-14
:)
I was convicted of my sins starting when I was a church-going child, but I chose not to repent until I was a teanager. When a high school buddy asked me to go to church with him, I agreed. I decided that morning that I would rather give up sin and go to heaven than die in my sins and go to hell. So I walked down the isle and told the preacher I wanted to be baptized. He told me to come back that night for the baptismal service. So I did.

Sitting on the bench with other baptismal candidates, the preacher shared the plan of salvation. It seemed so simple that I thought I missed something. So I asked him to come to my end end of the bench and explain it again. He had a dollar bill in his hand and said something like, "Accepting Jesus' offer of forgiveness is as simple as receiving this dollar bill I am offering you. It is yours if you receive it." I said, "Is that all there is to it?" He said, "Yes, but you can't me holding onto sin when you do it". I had already dealt with that concept over a number of years. So when He led us in the sinners prayer, I received Jesus (and His forgiveness) into my heart. A few minutes later I was baptized. My life changed that day in so many ways, in the same way that everyone else's life changes when Jesus comes to live in their hearts.

So when I read Scriptures about God drawing people to Himself, I relate to that in a personal way. And when I read Scriptures about God saving those who believe, I relate to that in a personal way. And when I read Scitures about being sealed with the Holy Spirit after we believe, I relate to that in a personal way. And when I read Scriptures about the steps to salvation (God sends people to preach about Jesus, those people preach Jesus, hearers hear about Jesus, some people believe the message about Jesus and call on Him to be saved, and Jesus saves all those who call on Him), I relate to that in a personal way. I do not read into it any quickening other than the quickening that comes at the end of the process when Jesus saves a person.
 

HeIsHere

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This is true, but the question is: WHY did Jesus choose these people? was it unconditional or conditional? I would argue the reason for it was that they were the true Israel, the remnant among the nation who were taught and heard from the Father,who then gave them to His Son.

Just like Cornelius, why is it that Cornelius needed to get the gospel message asap? Because he was already a just man before God and his prayers were heard. Therefore God chose to bring the Gospel to him in express delivery fashion.

It also served as a means to teach Peter that: "
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."
When we look at these verses in context like John 6:65
And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

and John 5:16

we need to remember the chosen or called is for an eschatological purpose.

Reformed peeps, lol, take these verses made to a specific audience and give it a blanket status for all people and for all time, this makes a huge mess of scripture with loaded many conflicting concepts.
 

HeIsHere

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Also, the apostles did not choose Christ, but Christ specifically chose each one for apostleship.
Exactly.

Every single proof text of this dogma is easily refuted in context however, one needs to remove the colored lens of total depravity/inability.
 

HeIsHere

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@Magenta provided you with this scripture which proclaims just the opposite!
Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
If man cannot submit to God, then what must take place so that he is able to!
You seem to ignore scripture when it does not agree with your high thoughts..... Something has to change before you turn to God :confused:
Does it really. Let us read it in context. See next post.

Cal 1.JPG
(Beyond the Fundamentals)
 

Nehemiah6

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...however, one needs to remove the colored lens of total depravity/inability.
And therein lies the problem. Those who accept false doctrines will CLING TO THEM regardless of the truth of Scripture. So in effect they love lies rather than the truth. Look at all the cults. And Five Point Calvinism is in fact a cult, even though these Christians are saved.
 

HeIsHere

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And therein lies the problem. Those who accept false doctrines will CLING TO THEM regardless of the truth of Scripture. So in effect they love lies rather than the truth. Look at all the cults. And Five Point Calvinism is in fact a cult, even though these Christians are saved.
Powerful statement and TRUE.

It changes God, removes His condition of the person exercising their ability to "belief in/trust in/place faith in" thereby changing HIS plan of salvation

No matter what words are used whether it is enable, irresistible, effectual it adds up to the same thing >>>> lottery salvation.
 

Cameron143

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First, Romans 1 does not speak of people who know there is a God, but about people who know God and reject Him...

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. (Ro 1:18–21)​

Second, it is true that without Him we can do nothing, just as it is true that without the Father Jesus could do nothing. Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner" (Jn 5:19). Jesus always did those things that pleased the Father (Jn 8:29). So we too, when the Spirit of God (who lives in our hearts) shows us what He wants us to think, what He wants us to say, and what He wants us to do, then we are to trust Him and walk in lock step with Him.

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in [lock-step with] the Spirit (Ga 5:25)​

But when we who live in the Spirit fail to walk as He leads, are we doing anything different than the lost person who knows God and rejects Him? Not really.

Finally, the ability to trust God is an ability that all humans (saved and unsaved alike) possess. So, no, nothing "in the natural man must be overcome to enable him to believe".
Perhaps you should read Romans 1 again...what may be known of God is the same as knowing things about Him. So their knowledge of God was not an intimate experiential knowledge, but a knowledge of His existence. Had they truly known God they would have had eternal life...John 17:3.
Second, it is impossible to be walking in the Spirit and be resisting God. When we aren't following His leading we aren't walking in the Spirit, but have turned to our own way.
Third, you still haven't shown how someone who is at enmity with God, who walks contrary to His ways, and who believes the gospel to be foolish, suddenly changes his disposition to now do all these things. Hint: if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation.
 

HeIsHere

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@Magenta provided you with this scripture which proclaims just the opposite!
Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
If man cannot submit to God, then what must take place so that he is able to!
You seem to ignore scripture when it does not agree with your high thoughts..... Something has to change before you turn to God :confused:
Paul is writing to believers.

In context this is what he is stating

Romans 8:7

It is the carnal mind of the saved person which needs to be renewed and brought into submission
of the regenerated spirit. The carnal mind of the regenerated person is enmity against God. The carnal mind enmity against God it is not subject to the law of God and it cannot be which is why it must be renewed.

Paul is teaching believers about how to walk in the Spirit, not about the appropriation of salvation.

Same theme here...

1 Thess 4:1
Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God; 2 for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus.
 

HeIsHere

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Nah not through Noah at all:

1 Peter 3:19-20
After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

This is AFTER.

I have come to the conclusion much like @Nehemiah6 (I think) debating this faulty dogma just provides a platform and the possibility of converting the vulnerable.
So many have come on these "Calvinism" threads have capably argued with logic and scripture exegeted correctly, this is cult like behaviour defending a doctrine like "born incapable of responding positively to the Gospel" nowhere established in scripture.
 

Hakawaka

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Does it really. Let us read it in context. See next post.

View attachment 265964
(Beyond the Fundamentals)
I recommend the beyond the fundamentals channel and 101soteriology for someone looking for answers to the calvinist proof texts. Also the debate between Steve Gregg and James White is good.
 
Apr 7, 2024
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Perhaps you should read Romans 1 again...what may be known of God is the same as knowing things about Him. So their knowledge of God was not an intimate experiential knowledge, but a knowledge of His existence. Had they truly known God they would have had eternal life...John 17:3.
It says, "although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful" (Ro 1:21). It doesn't say, "although they knew about God...". So, you may want to bring in concepts that relate to our intimate personal relationship with the Lord who lives in our brought-to-life new hearts to distinguish between the saved and the lost, but that does not address the issue at hand.
Second, it is impossible to be walking in the Spirit and be resisting God. When we aren't following His leading we aren't walking in the Spirit, but have turned to our own way.
That's what I said. But I added that when we fail to walk in the Spirit, and as a result end up gratifying the flesh, we are not doing anything that is materially different than those who knew God but refused to worship Him as God as described in Romans 1. You don't think every Christian always walks in the Spirit do you? And you don't think failing to walk in the Spirit makes a saved person lost, do you? "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Ga 5:25)
Third, you still haven't shown how someone who is at enmity with God, who walks contrary to His ways, and who believes the gospel to be foolish, suddenly changes his disposition to now do all these things. Hint: if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation.
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2 Pe 3:9)​

Reformed theology creates a false paradigm concerning repentance. It argues against the plain language of Scripture that God wants everyone to come to repentance. He does not squish sinners like bugs but allows them to keep on sinning in order that some may repent and be saved by Him. And it is clear that no one can repent and go to Jesus unless God the Father draws him. So to declare that God wants no one to perish and wants everyone to come to repentance, but that He does not draw them all to Jesus or that He makes it impossible for some people to accept His offer (thereby condemning them to eternal death) is horrible theology.

My experience is that Reformed people cannot be convinced they are wrong on this issue because it is the issue that defines them. Without God reaching down and flipping a switch in people to allow (and irresistably cause) them to believe there would be no Reformed theology. But given that this is such a crucial point of doctrine, it would seem that they would have some (substantial) Scriptural backing for this crucial point. So maybe you can show us where the Bible says a person cannot respond positively to God without God first changing them into a believing person.
 

awelight

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That would be incorrect, it is not established in scripture anywhere that a person dead in their sins equates to a person is BORN being unable to recognize their sins and respond positively to the TRUTH and power of the message of the Gospel which brings conviction.

So far there is no Calvinist/Augustinian/Reformed/Westminster Confession people (because this is the definitive separating belief of this creed which separates it from biblical reality)

who can show from scripture that people are BORN not based on single proof texts taken out of context but by examining/exegeting verses that clearly indicate otherwise.

Make a solid case you cannot because it is not in scripture it is philosophy.
I really don't want to take this thread down that path. This discussion has been rode to death in other threads.

However, you said that there is no Biblical proof for the concept of one being born dead in their sins and are unable to respond positively to the Gospel message. I disagree.

John_6:44 No man is able to come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.
John_6:65 And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.


There it is in black and white. Our Lord said, "No man can" (KJV), or "No man is able..." to come to me. This speaks directly to ability because the Greek word here, in the "middle voice", means the inability, within ones self, to move towards the object without first receiving something from the Father... in this particular text.
 

HeIsHere

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Reformed theology creates a false paradigm concerning repentance. It argues against the plain language of Scripture that God wants everyone to come to repentance. He does not squish sinners like bugs but allows them to keep on sinning in order that some may repent and be saved by Him. And it is clear that no one can repent and go to Jesus unless God the Father draws him. So to declare that God wants no one to perish and wants everyone to come to repentance, but that He does not draw them all to Jesus or that He makes it impossible for some people to accept His offer (thereby condemning them to eternal death) is horrible theology.

My experience is that Reformed people cannot be convinced they are wrong on this issue because it is the issue that defines them. Without God reaching down and flipping a switch in people to allow (and irresistably cause them to believe) there would be no Reformed theology. But given that this is such a crucial point of doctrine, it would seem that they would have some (substantial) Scriptural backing for this crucial point. So maybe you can show us where the Bible says a person cannot respond positively to God without God first changing them into a believing person.

I have asked and asked, it seems they do not have one.
The proof texts are not about the plan of salvation or they are inferring into the text.

My experience is that Reformed people cannot be convinced they are wrong on this issue because it is the issue that defines them.
I am convinced they adhere in spite of scripture truth, because of some psychological, emotional or social need that causes this phenomena.

It is an exercise in futility.
 

awelight

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After regeneration correct?
I am not sure I understood what you were asking here. Every Human being who has, is or will be born, is responsible to God. Ones fallen inability to carry this command out is not God's responsibility. The human race fell in Adam. Rom 5:12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:--

Being regenerated, (Receiving a "fleshy heart" - thus, a new disposition towards the things of God), does not take away the need for repentance, conversion or need for forgiveness. Regeneration, in it's simplest terms, restores that spiritual ability that was lost in the fall.
 

Magenta

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I have asked and asked, it seems they do not have one.
You pretend there are none because that is your preference. You ignore those
that are given and refuse to accept what they say, making excuses for why.
In other words, you are dishonest; several have been given multiple times.
 

awelight

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This answer by HeIsHere is pretty much it. So in the OP two questions are asked. 1. Could a Calvinist, or those that hold the doctrine of inherited sin, assert that they are not the chosen few? 2. Could a Calvinist or one that holds the doctrine of inherited sin assert their predestination to damnation? The answer to both these questions would be no. Since they believe in inherited sin this means that they are so totally depraved that they think they are the chosen few even while they are actually in a state of damnation, and they cannot even perceive that they are actually damned. Rather than repent for their own sins and take personal responsibility for their own sins they're so blinded that they are left to justify their sins perpetually by blaming Adam. But let's take this a step further and suppose that they answer yes to both questions. Then at this point they would be put into a position where they'd have to choose to either stay obstinately in their damned lot in order to keep their doctrine or elsewise renounce their doctrine and convert to Christianity so that they might be forgiven by God and receive his forgiveness. If we suppose they choose to keep their doctrine then they will have to delude themselves into thinking they're the chosen few and they will not be able to perceive that they are actually damned, and in essence they will have to then change their answer of yes to both questions and instead answer no to both questions.. If they renounce their doctrine and convert to Christianity on the other hand then they are no longer a Calvinist at which point then they will again have to change their answer from yes to both the questions into an answer of no to both the questions.

In brief, the OP is somewhat of a genius, and it's a fun logic game.
This is so foolish. You say "chosen few" like it is something to be proud of. Do you deny Election? Eph 1:3,4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

If God decided to save some - and this done before the foundation of the world - before any were even created or born - then how could the ones being saved have anything to boast about? There is no Biblical criteria, known to man, for why God chose whom He chose. BUT He is God and God can do as He pleases. Rom 9:19,20 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who can withstand his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that disputes with God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus?
 

Magenta

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I have asked and asked, it seems they do not have one.
Show us you do not have a double standard and provide the Scripture that explicitly states men were born able to positively respond - using their free will - to the gospel message. I realize it is an exercize in futility asking you for such because no such thing exists despite your insistence and assumptions and reading into the text things that are not there. At. All. I am convinced you adhere to your un-Biblical beliefs in spite of Scripture truth because of some psychological, emotional or social need that causes this phenomena, and worse, it speaks to your wholesale rejection of what is said of the natural man. I believe this is because you think so highly of yourself. Pride is at the root of your rejection of what Scripture teaches just as much as it is for any unbeliever.
 

awelight

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It says, "although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful" (Ro 1:21). It doesn't say, "although they knew about God...". So, you may want to bring in concepts that relate to our intimate personal relationship with the Lord who lives in our brought-to-life new hearts to distinguish between the saved and the lost, but that does not address the issue at hand.
That's what I said. But I added that when we fail to walk in the Spirit, and as a result end up gratifying the flesh, we are not doing anything that is materially different than those who knew God but refused to worship Him as God as described in Romans 1. You don't think every Christian always walks in the Spirit do you? And you don't think failing to walk in the Spirit makes a saved person lost, do you? "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Ga 5:25)

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2 Pe 3:9)​

Reformed theology creates a false paradigm concerning repentance. It argues against the plain language of Scripture that God wants everyone to come to repentance. He does not squish sinners like bugs but allows them to keep on sinning in order that some may repent and be saved by Him. And it is clear that no one can repent and go to Jesus unless God the Father draws him. So to declare that God wants no one to perish and wants everyone to come to repentance, but that He does not draw them all to Jesus or that He makes it impossible for some people to accept His offer (thereby condemning them to eternal death) is horrible theology.

My experience is that Reformed people cannot be convinced they are wrong on this issue because it is the issue that defines them. Without God reaching down and flipping a switch in people to allow (and irresistably cause) them to believe there would be no Reformed theology. But given that this is such a crucial point of doctrine, it would seem that they would have some (substantial) Scriptural backing for this crucial point. So maybe you can show us where the Bible says a person cannot respond positively to God without God first changing them into a believing person.
This is so tiresome, reading individuals on these threads, basing their Theology on this one verse:

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Who are the "ALL" in this verse? It is NOT everyone in the world.

First of all, Peter is writing to believers and not the world at large.
Secondly, Peter is explaining, to believers, why it might seem the Lord is "slack" in His return.
Thirdly, the primary reason given is, that time is being given to ensure that all of the elected ones come into the arc of safety before His return.

It is just that simple. Explained within the context.

Perhaps this might be of help.
John Gill on this verse:

but is longsuffering to us-ward: not to all the individuals of human nature, for the persons intended by us are manifestly distinguished from "some men" in the text, and from scoffers, mocking at the promise of Christ's coming, in the context, 2Pe_3:3; and are expressly called beloved, 2Pe_3:1; and God's longsuffering towards them is their salvation, 2Pe_3:15, nor is it true of all men, that God is not willing that any of them should perish, and that everyone of them should come to repentance, since many of them do perish in their sins, and do not come to repentance, which would not be the case, if his determining will was otherwise; besides, a society or company of men are designed, to which the apostle himself belonged, and of which he was a part; and who are described, in his epistles, as the elect of God, called out of darkness, into marvellous light, and having obtained like precious faith with the apostles; and must be understood either of God's elect among the Jews, for Peter was a Jew, and they were Jews he wrote to; and then the sense is, that the delay of Christ's coming is not owing to any slackness in him, but to his longsuffering to his elect among the Jews, being unwilling that any of that number among them should perish, but that all of them repent of their sins, and believe in him; and therefore he waits till their conversion is over, when a nation shall be born at once, and they that have pierced him look on him and mourn, and so all Israel shall be saved; or rather of the elect in general, whether among Jews or Gentiles, upon whom the Lord waits to be gracious, and whose longsuffering issues in their conversion and salvation. And upon account of these the Lord stays his coming till their number is complete in the effectual calling; and for their sakes he is longsuffering to others, and bears with a wicked world, with the idolatry, superstition, heresy, profaneness, and impiety, with which it abounds; but when the last man that belongs to that number is called, he will quickly descend in flames of fire, and burn the world, and the wicked in it, and take his chosen ones to himself. The Alexandrian copy reads, "for you", or your sakes; and so the Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Ethiopic versions. A passage somewhat like to this is met with in a book of the Jews (f), esteemed by them very ancient.
"God prolongs or defers his anger with men; and one day, which is a thousand years, is fixed, besides the seventy years he delivered to David the king.--And he does not judge man by his evil works which he continually does, for if so, the world would not stand; but the holy blessed God defers his anger with the righteous, and the wicked, that they may return, by perfect repentance, and be established in this world, and in the world to come.''
And it is an observation of theirs (g), that when God is said to be "longsuffering", it is not written ארך אף, but ארך אפים, intimating, that he is longsuffering both to the righteous and the wicked; but then he bears with the latter, for the sake of the former: compare with this passage Rev_6:9;
not willing that any should perish; not any of the us, whom he has loved with an everlasting love, whom he has chosen in his Son, and given to him, and for whom he has died, and who are brought to believe in him. These, though they were lost in Adam, did not perish; and though in their own apprehensions, when awakened and convinced, are ready to perish; and though their peace, joy, and comfort, may perish for a while, and they may fear a final and total perishing; yet they shall never perish as others do, or be punished with everlasting destruction: and that this is the will of God, appears by his choice of them to salvation; by the provisions of grace for them in an everlasting covenant; by the security of their persons in the hands of Christ; by sending his Son to obtain salvation for them, and his Spirit to apply it to them; and by his keeping them by his power, through faith, unto salvation.
But that all should come to repentance; not legal, but evangelical, without which all must perish; and which all God's elect stand in need of, as well as others, being equally sinners; and which they cannot come to of themselves, and therefore he not only calls them to it, in his word, and by his spirit and grace, but bestows it upon them; he has exalted Christ at his own right hand, to give it to them; and repentance is a grant from him, a free gift of his grace; and the Spirit is sent down into their hearts to work it in them, to take away the stony heart, and give an heart of flesh; without which, whatever time and space may be given, or means afforded, even the most awful judgments, the greatest mercies, and the most powerful ministry, will be of no avail.
 

Cameron143

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It says, "although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful" (Ro 1:21). It doesn't say, "although they knew about God...". So, you may want to bring in concepts that relate to our intimate personal relationship with the Lord who lives in our brought-to-life new hearts to distinguish between the saved and the lost, but that does not address the issue at hand.
That's what I said. But I added that when we fail to walk in the Spirit, and as a result end up gratifying the flesh, we are not doing anything that is materially different than those who knew God but refused to worship Him as God as described in Romans 1. You don't think every Christian always walks in the Spirit do you? And you don't think failing to walk in the Spirit makes a saved person lost, do you? "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Ga 5:25)

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2 Pe 3:9)​

Reformed theology creates a false paradigm concerning repentance. It argues against the plain language of Scripture that God wants everyone to come to repentance. He does not squish sinners like bugs but allows them to keep on sinning in order that some may repent and be saved by Him. And it is clear that no one can repent and go to Jesus unless God the Father draws him. So to declare that God wants no one to perish and wants everyone to come to repentance, but that He does not draw them all to Jesus or that He makes it impossible for some people to accept His offer (thereby condemning them to eternal death) is horrible theology.

My experience is that Reformed people cannot be convinced they are wrong on this issue because it is the issue that defines them. Without God reaching down and flipping a switch in people to allow (and irresistably cause) them to believe there would be no Reformed theology. But given that this is such a crucial point of doctrine, it would seem that they would have some (substantial) Scriptural backing for this crucial point. So maybe you can show us where the Bible says a person cannot respond positively to God without God first changing them into a believing person.
Perhaps you will explain to me what it is to know God. I know what Jesus says is it is from John 17:3. Are you suggesting that Romans 1 is speaking of those who possess eternal life?
And reformed theology has no such false paradigm. What is false is the way it is characterized by people who have no real understanding of it. Neither are reformed believers defined by their beliefs. What has been my experience is that those who make the least of God's grace are also those who exercise the least grace to others.
BTW, you still have neglected to proffer what it is that causes an individual who is at enmity with God, who walks contrary to His ways, and believes the gospel is foolishness suddenly changes otherwise. You appeared to be beginning to credit this to God. If so, that's awesome.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Perhaps you will explain to me what it is to know God. I know what Jesus says is it is from John 17:3.

John 17:2-3~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.:)