BTW @studentoftheword - this is the only part of post #76 that was actually directed to you in particular - the rest of it - before and after - was really being expressed "to the crowd":
Does getting the "Trib" correct help?
- Thread starter Lamar
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Oh ---thanks for the clarification ------My Bad -----
as far as this statement goes ---
Question: Why were 'Church Age saints' not raptured before the horror of the Dark Ages started???
my view ----
GaryA -----There was 3 Raptures in the Old Testament ------Enoch ---Elijah and Jesus ------this gives testament to God can Rapture His Saints -----now these 2 Saints ----Elijah and Enoch ------did they go directly to where God's Throne is ----the Scripture doesn't say ----but what it does say is that No sinner can enter heaven ----nothing unclean can enter God's Heaven --------so did their their spirit and soul go to Paradise ---which is according to scripture the upper region of Hell ------where Abraham and the other Saints went when they died ------called Abraham's Bosom ------maybe God created the upper region of hell for the Old Testament Saints to reside until He sent His Son to bring Back Eternal life by and through His resurrection from death ---Jesus defeated eternal separation from God and brought back in Eternal life after death ------so now there are 2 Spiritual deaths -------
We know from 1 Peter 3:18-19 that Jesus when to preach to imprisoned Spirits ----so was this to the Old Testaments Saints who died ----or did Jesus go to the depth of hell to preach to all the sinners there ???????
The scripture is not forthcoming on that ------
1 Peter 3:18-19
New Living Translation
18 Christ suffered[a] for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.[b]
19 So he went and preached to the spirits in prison—
I say
To me it makes sense that Jesus would preach the Good news to the Old Testament Saints -----and there are many speculations about the Old Testament Saints and where they are today ------in heaven or waiting to get there still ????????
These are a couple of opinions here that i posted ------
https://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-believers.html
The Bible is less clear about when the Old Testament saints will be resurrected.
It is our view that Old Testament believers will be joined to their resurrected bodies at the end of the tribulation period when Jesus returns to earth to set up His millennial kingdom (Isaiah 26:19; Hosea 13:14).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-...en-are-the-old-testaments-saints-resurrected/
Old Testament Saints Are Resurrected After The Second Coming
After the defeat of the nations of the world at Armageddon (Revelation 19:16-21), the imprisonment of Satan will occur in Revelation 20:1-3. Revelation 20:4, 6 describes the second and third groups of people who will be resurrected.
This says --
that the believers who died in the Old Testament are already in Heaven --------
So I say take your pick ---but there is one thing for sure ------all believers from both the Old and New Testaments will be in the new Earth ------
So IF what is believed here below is true then the old Testament believers had to be transported from paradise to Heaven ----caught up --raptured ----whatever you want to call it -----
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_152.cfm
Heroes Of Faith
According to the writer to the Hebrews, all the heroes of faith were looking for that heavenly country.
These people are now in heaven.
Limbo?
The idea of a limbus patrum (limbo of the fathers) arose in Middle Ages. It was taught that heaven had been closed to humanity from the time of Adam's fall until the coming of Christ.
All Old Testament believers were in this state of blessedness.
Once Christ ascended into heaven there was no longer a need for this place for He brought all believers with Him to the presence of the Father.
Summary
The righteous who died before the coming of Christ are now in God's presence.
As to whether they were in heaven before He came, or in some other place of blessing, the Bible does not clearly say. The information is not sufficient to make any conclusion.
as far as this statement goes ---
Question: Why were 'Church Age saints' not raptured before the horror of the Dark Ages started???
my view ----
GaryA -----There was 3 Raptures in the Old Testament ------Enoch ---Elijah and Jesus ------this gives testament to God can Rapture His Saints -----now these 2 Saints ----Elijah and Enoch ------did they go directly to where God's Throne is ----the Scripture doesn't say ----but what it does say is that No sinner can enter heaven ----nothing unclean can enter God's Heaven --------so did their their spirit and soul go to Paradise ---which is according to scripture the upper region of Hell ------where Abraham and the other Saints went when they died ------called Abraham's Bosom ------maybe God created the upper region of hell for the Old Testament Saints to reside until He sent His Son to bring Back Eternal life by and through His resurrection from death ---Jesus defeated eternal separation from God and brought back in Eternal life after death ------so now there are 2 Spiritual deaths -------
We know from 1 Peter 3:18-19 that Jesus when to preach to imprisoned Spirits ----so was this to the Old Testaments Saints who died ----or did Jesus go to the depth of hell to preach to all the sinners there ???????
The scripture is not forthcoming on that ------
1 Peter 3:18-19
New Living Translation
18 Christ suffered[a] for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.[b]
19 So he went and preached to the spirits in prison—
I say
To me it makes sense that Jesus would preach the Good news to the Old Testament Saints -----and there are many speculations about the Old Testament Saints and where they are today ------in heaven or waiting to get there still ????????
These are a couple of opinions here that i posted ------
https://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-believers.html
The Bible is less clear about when the Old Testament saints will be resurrected.
It is our view that Old Testament believers will be joined to their resurrected bodies at the end of the tribulation period when Jesus returns to earth to set up His millennial kingdom (Isaiah 26:19; Hosea 13:14).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-...en-are-the-old-testaments-saints-resurrected/
Old Testament Saints Are Resurrected After The Second Coming
After the defeat of the nations of the world at Armageddon (Revelation 19:16-21), the imprisonment of Satan will occur in Revelation 20:1-3. Revelation 20:4, 6 describes the second and third groups of people who will be resurrected.
This says --
that the believers who died in the Old Testament are already in Heaven --------
So I say take your pick ---but there is one thing for sure ------all believers from both the Old and New Testaments will be in the new Earth ------
So IF what is believed here below is true then the old Testament believers had to be transported from paradise to Heaven ----caught up --raptured ----whatever you want to call it -----
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_152.cfm
Heroes Of Faith
According to the writer to the Hebrews, all the heroes of faith were looking for that heavenly country.
All of these died in faith without having received the promises, but from a distance they saw and greeted them. They confessed that they were strangers and foreigners on the earth, for people who speak in this way make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of the land that they had left behind, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one.
Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; indeed, He has prepared a city for them (Hebrews 11:13-16).
These people are now in heaven.
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all humanity, to the spirits of righteous people made perfect (Hebrews 12:23).
Limbo?
The idea of a limbus patrum (limbo of the fathers) arose in Middle Ages. It was taught that heaven had been closed to humanity from the time of Adam's fall until the coming of Christ.
All Old Testament believers were in this state of blessedness.
Once Christ ascended into heaven there was no longer a need for this place for He brought all believers with Him to the presence of the Father.
Summary
The righteous who died before the coming of Christ are now in God's presence.
As to whether they were in heaven before He came, or in some other place of blessing, the Bible does not clearly say. The information is not sufficient to make any conclusion.
Of course in many places around the world, over the last millenia, large groups of Christians wave been butchered for their beliefs by contrary religious groups, and brutal governments, so "Tribulation" hasn't been all that RARE in the world. SO how did THOSE folks "Prepare" for their vicious persecution???
And, of course "Eschatology" is just a religious term for "Rank Speculation", anyway.
And, of course "Eschatology" is just a religious term for "Rank Speculation", anyway.
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If it were not important it would not have been so clearly revealed. There are always practical advantages to studying the Word of God. The time you spend studying the Scripture is under your control.
Hebrews 4:12
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
2 Timothy 2:15
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
Hebrews 4:12
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
2 Timothy 2:15
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
The first parts of the book we call the NT are actually still the OT (old testament which means old covenant). The OT was replaced by the NT at the cross. So what Christ spoke of was true during the old covenant, that the righteous went to heaven, which is what the Jews called Abraham's bosom. They didn't need to be saved a second time.