DOES GOD ALLOW ERROR?

[preacher4truth]

God does not judge you by your handling of the word,

I must totally disagree here:

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. - James 3:1

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.” Mark 7:13

Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 2 Peter 3:14-16

 

[dcontroversal]

Line upon line and precept upon precept in context and understanding the verbiage, verb tense and honesty.......I am fairly confident that ALL of us have missed the mark when it comes to interpretation at one time or another.....conviction of error is applicable if we are sensitive to the still small voice that God speaks to us through IMO.....

 

[oldethennew]

so often relating/sharing our 'errors' that we can confess to=openly, along and along on our journeys,
in order to put others before ourselves, to show them the HOPE that is in us and is so 'liberating', it
can only come for our Holy Enlightening of Jesus Christ's Sacrifice...
but, it also always reminds us of our 'duties-offerings of the thankful Love that lives inside of us,
for our Maker, that Giver and Taker of All we possess,..!

somehow, we always have a profound desire to express to Him how much we Love Him...

 

[truthhurts]

.quoting scripture that tells us that the Spirit will lead a Christians does not prove that a particular individual Christian is actually being led by the Spirit.

Romans 8.16 and 1 Cor 2.....you are attempting to seek a carnal answer for a spiritual question....

furthermore, it seems that the Word does not settle the issue for you...each person gave you the answer, stop searching with the carnal mind and be still and know that he is God....

 

[preacher4truth]

Of course the Holy Spirit WILL lead Christians, the question is how do you know that you personally are being led by the Spirit? You can easily find three different teachings all coming from Christians who believe they are being led by the Spirit. In such a situation either one Christian is actually being led by the Spirit and the other two are not, or else all three are not being led by the Spirit. My question is still, how do YOU know that you are being led by the Spirit...quoting scripture that tells us that the Spirit will lead a Christians does not prove that a particular individual Christian is actually being led by the Spirit.

You're correct, quoting the passage does not mean that one is being lead by the Spirit.

Here is the passage:

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. - John 16:13

This passage was given to the disciples concerning their ministry when the Spirit arrives after the resurrection and ascension of Christ. It was a comfort to them and was fulfilled in their time.

The Spirit inspired their preaching, prophesying and writing of the Holy Scriptures and this is not promised to all believers today, it was exclusive to their ministry.

Today this passage is oft misused by many;

1) It is misused by some to say they need no one but God to teach them. This is completely against Scripture as a whole. God called some to be teachers, Ephesians 4:11-13 &c and they are necessary and appointed. Interestingly they don't need other teachers but want to teach others. This passage is taken out of context along with 1 John 2:27. Just try to convince any person in this state, you will be unsuccessful. Typically they attend no church, and have little regard for the church. Imagine, disregard for the bride of Christ, yet being super spiritual.

2) It is misused by some to (falsely) authenticate what they are preaching as they claim God spoke directly to them. This simply isn't true, but it is popular today. Why? Because the Word of God is not heeded enough, 2 Timothy 4:15,

3) Misuse of this text has facilitated the maverick ideologies of today that result in many false teachings, and much error. The Word of God must be used in 2 Timothy 2:15 fashion, and we must remember God gave us teachers. We examine what they teach by the Word, not by some mystical misapplication of this text and purely subjective assertions that "God personally told me so". Persons who say 'God spoke directly to them" are exactly like the false prophets on OT Scripture. Note Jeremiah 23:1.

 

[truthhurts]

You're correct, quoting the passage does not mean that one is being lead by the Spirit.

Here is the passage:

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. - John 16:13

This passage was given to the disciples concerning their ministry when the Spirit arrives after the resurrection and ascension of Christ. It was a comfort to them and was fulfilled in their time.

The Spirit inspired their preaching, prophesying and writing of the Holy Scriptures and this is not promised to all believers today, it was exclusive to their ministry.

Today this passage is oft misused by many;

1) It is misused by some to say they need no one but God to teach them. This is completely against Scripture as a whole. God called some to be teachers, Ephesians 4:11-13 &c and they are necessary and appointed. Interestingly they don't need other teachers but want to teach others. This passage is taken out of context along with 1 John 2:27. Just try to convince any person in this state, you will be unsuccessful. Typically they attend no church, and have little regard for the church. Imagine, disregard for the bride of Christ, yet being super spiritual.

2) It is misused by some to (falsely) authenticate what they are preaching as they claim God spoke directly to them. This simply isn't true, but it is popular today. Why? Because the Word of God is not heeded enough, 2 Timothy 4:15,

3) Misuse of this text has facilitated the maverick ideologies of today that result in many false teachings, and much error. The Word of God must be used in 2 Timothy 2:15 fashion, and we must remember God gave us teachers. We examine what they teach by the Word, not by some mystical misapplication of this text and purely subjective assertions that "God personally told me so". Persons who say 'God spoke directly to them" are exactly like the false prophets on OT Scripture. Note Jeremiah 23:1.

If The Word of God must be used in 2 Timothy 2:15 fashion, then we should see all of Eph 4.11-13 right?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, [SUP]12 [/SUP]for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; [SUP]13 [/SUP]until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

 

[preacher4truth]

If The Word of God must be used in 2 Timothy 2:15 fashion, then we should see all of Eph 4.11-13 right?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, [SUP]12 [/SUP]for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; [SUP]13 [/SUP]until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

I used the reference, so feel free to look it up and quote it, it adds nothing nor takes nothing away from my post. Not sure what your point is supposed to be.

 

[Angela53510]

My sheep know my voice!

"The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”" John 10:2-5

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—" John 10:14

"My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27

I do study the Bible, I study it in context, in the original languages. But what leads and guides me, is the Holy Spirit and knowing his voice. He has never led me wrong, or into error!

 

[samuel23]

Hi TH: I am not seeking anything, I am stating a fact, quoting scripture that tells us that the Spirit will lead a Christians does not prove that a particular Christian is actually being led by the Spirit. I explained this in the part that you left off, you can easily find three Christians claiming to be led by the Spirit while all disagreeing with each other, obviously they are not all being led by the Spirit. My statement had nothing to do with the word settling anything, I was making a simple observation of the irony of Christians claiming they are led by the Spirit when it is obvious they are not.

 

[truthhurts]

Hi TH: I am not seeking anything, I am stating a fact, quoting scripture that tells us that the Spirit will lead a Christians does not prove that a particular Christian is actually being led by the Spirit. I explained this in the part that you left off, you can easily find three Christians claiming to be led by the Spirit while all disagreeing with each other, obviously they are not all being led by the Spirit. My statement had nothing to do with the word settling anything, I was making a simple observation of the irony of Christians claiming they are led by the Spirit when it is obvious they are not.

Then I misunderstood your intention....I was merely pointing out we know we are led by the Spirit, because he tells us we are....Sorry for he misunderstanding...

 

[samuel23]

Hi Angela: I realize that if we are truly led by the Spirit then we will never be led wrong because God does not make mistakes. However I have known many Christians( including myself) who thought they were being led by the Spirit but obviously were not. The problem is, how do WE KNOW that we are led by the Spirit apart from clear in context scripture? I have known so many Christians that honestly believed that the Spirit was leading them when it became apparent later that they were not following the Spirit of God.

 

[Blain]

Well i don't know how everyone else communicates with the holy spirit but he is my best and closest friend I sometimes am simply astonished that someone as amazing as him would be best friends with someone like me yet even best friends sometimes don't listen as they should and when i am thinking of and distracted by life i can miss what he actually saying.

tbh I learn from the scriptures differently, i don't just sit and study the word for hours i am more of an experience learning kind of person. I go on walks almost everyday to be with and to talk with him and to get to know him more i notice that i hear and see him in so many ways like i can see him in the flowers and in the clouds i hear him and feel him in the wind and often times he places thoughts or even sometimes images that lead me to scriptures and it can be pretty astounding how the scriptures fit right into what he places in my heart sometimes i can't even speak for a minute or so lol.

Mainly the time i spend with him and the time i spend getting to know him and seeking a closer bond with him allows me to hear and know his voice and when you read the bible with this kind of bond he leads you into the deeper layers of the word. The bible is like an onion or the earths crust it has many many layers and when one has a very deep and intimate love and bond with God he gives you the eyes to be able to see into the deeper layers.

 

[samuel23]

Hi Blain: your message seems right on, if there was one thing just a little off it is that our concentration should be on God the Father through Jesus His Son, when we do this we are in contact with the Spirit of God.

 

[Blain]

Hi Blain: your message seems right on, if there was one thing just a little off it is that our concentration should be on God the Father through Jesus His Son, when we do this we are in contact with the Spirit of God.

For me when am talking to one of the trinity i am talking to all of them

 

[samuel23]

The NT letters of greeting first acknowledge God the Father and then Jesus the Son, they usually do not speak of the Spirit.

 

[Angela53510]

Hi Angela: I realize that if we are truly led by the Spirit then we will never be led wrong because God does not make mistakes. However I have known many Christians( including myself) who thought they were being led by the Spirit but obviously were not. The problem is, how do WE KNOW that we are led by the Spirit apart from clear in context scripture? I have known so many Christians that honestly believed that the Spirit was leading them when it became apparent later that they were not following the Spirit of God.

As I said, we have to KNOW the voice of God! That means prayer, meditation and listening! I also wonder what kind of error you are describing. Is it theological? Because, theology, although I love it, does not determine our relationship with Christ. Is it personal? Well, I have had God speak to me in a booming voice when he saved me. Well, it was really a small still voice, but it was so powerful and true, there was no denying it. When God called me to seminary the first time, I knew it was him. But I disobeyed. So, that was not the fault of the Spirit, but mine. So is the error one of disobedience?

Or is it for a direction in life? I think sometimes God gives us smaller clues, and we have to put them together. But he still doesn't lead us astray. I think we lead ourselves astray!

If it is how to interpret Scripture, that is a learning and growing process. Sometimes we grab a hold of something, because it "feels" right, but in fact, God said no such thing. Sometimes we let our own viewpoints and opinions interfere with actually reading the Bible and following it. Another thing is too many people watch internet preachers and read their books, and think God has spoken to them. Sadly, he often hasn't. That is why we really have to have a close walk with Jesus, and he will lead and teach us. Then, when some new idea, concept or outright fantasy comes along, some people get swept into it, but we will not.

New manna! God gives us a fresh word every day! If it turns out we have not been listening, then the Voice will go quiet. So, for me, I try very hard these days not to run ahead of where God wants me. Sometimes, he just wants us to go off into the wilderness and pray! And yes, God is in the wilderness, he is everywhere! And he wants to teach us and help us grow into the image of Christ!

 

[Blain]

The NT letters of greeting first acknowledge God the Father and then Jesus the Son, they usually do not speak of the Spirit.

They actually speak of him a lot and also in the OT as well, the holy spirit is just as much God as Jesus is and maybe i am wrong for thinking when i talk to the holy spirit i am talking to god the father and Jesus as well but this is just how he and I are and it was in this manner i grew closer to him

 

[pottersclay]

Well if God does allow error he needs to apologize to moses.

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

The Holy Spirit does lead us into all truth.

I totally agree. If we really want to know, live, keep and teach the truth, the Eternal reveals us. And certainly we won't be confounded:

• "For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." (Romans 10.11).
  
• "What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death." (Philippians 1.18-20).

The question that must be asked is what truth?

Only exist one Truth (Jesus - John 14.6) and the Holy Spirit will lead us through Him:

• “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” (John 16.12,13).

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

King David and King Saul made mistakes that they were not aware of. The prophets came and told them about their sins. The difference between the two was repentance. David had a teachable heart while Saul could not repent before God. He followed his own ways.

God allows error, it is how we shuv / repent /turn back to God that makes the difference.