Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

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Feb 5, 2023
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Already proved that wrong with over a dozen Bible verses.
No you didn't. You ignore the verses that prove God predestined his elect. And you take out of context verses you insist show God saves everybody, which is untrue even in Old Testament passages.

That is therefore not proof. It's Eisegesis.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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No you didn't. You ignore the verses that prove God predestined his elect. And you take out of context verses you insist show God saves everybody, which is untrue even in Old Testament passages.

That is therefore not proof. It's Eisegesis.
The verses I shared cannot be taken out of context. You would have to add "the elect only" to every verse. It's not there. You are making an assumption and adding to Scripture.
 
Feb 5, 2023
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The verses I shared cannot be taken out of context. You would have to add "the elect only" to every verse. It's not there. You are making an assumption and adding to Scripture.
Not at all. That's why full contextual Exegesis is proper in Bible studies.

The elect of God does not need to be in every verse in order to have that understand present in all verses pertaining to salvation.

When Jesus died for all the Father gave him, the elect, all scripture therein pertains to those who are the elect of God.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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Not at all. That's why full contextual Exegesis is proper in Bible studies.

The elect of God does not need to be in every verse in order to have that understand present in all verses pertaining to salvation.

When Jesus died for all the Father gave him, the elect, all scripture therein pertains to those who are the elect of God.
No, the Word says again and again Christ died for all. You insert the word elect because of your POV. But it is not there.
 
Feb 5, 2023
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No, the Word says again and again Christ died for all. You insert the word elect because of your POV. But it is not there.
All of God's elect.

If your belief was correct Jesus would not have told us salvation is of God and only for those whom God calls.

Jesus said, a very important distinction in the verses of gospel, no one can come to him unless the Father leads, calls, them.

Jesus said through Paul the natural mind cannot comprehend the things of God because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural carnal mind is the worldly mind obsessed with the material world, the realm of flesh and carnal self serving passions.
This is why there are those saints who rightly say our adversary the Devil hides the truth of God's good news from us.
Because as we are forewarned but yet the worldly do not know this, the whole world lies in the power of the evil one, Satan.

And it is he who blinds people from the truth because the natural mind is within his domain. This is why God's Hy Spirit must intervene and therein overcome that condition in those whom he leads to his son. Which as Jesus taught us the only way anyone comes to him.
And of those the Father gives Jesus he shall lose none.

So while Jesus sacrifice was to save all people, those people and as Jesus said are only those whom the Father leads to him.

Jesus died for all those chosen, elected, by God unto salvation.

If everyone was saved the entire NT and Old for that matter would read very differently.

In one respect especially. Jesus death overcame the power of the 2nd death that was in Satan's control. If everyone without exception were saved, saying everyone without exception necessarily includes unbelievers due to the import of the word, everyone, then Satan would have ceased to exist as Lord of the carnal material world. Hell would have been open only to Satan and his angels. And there would not be a future judgement of saint and sinner to come .
But there is.

All does not equal every one.

All whom the Father gives Jesus.

And those are only able to understand the things of God that saved them because God's Holy Spirit overcomes the natural carnal mind that otherwise is unable to understand. Because to the natural carnal mind the gospel,the things of God are foolishness.

I think every Christian here knows someone for whom that applies. That one who thinks our faith is silly, myth,magical thinking, and so forth.

Jesus observed of those who had walked with him in his ministry and then left him, walked away. He said they were not one of us even though they walked with him for a time.

Those ones thought to choose to follow Jesus. That was the carnal natural mind thinking there was something to gain for doing this.

However, the natural mind cannot understand Jesus ministry, which is also why he explained his reason for teaching always in parables.

Therefore, those who walked with Jesus for personal reasons lost interest because the gospel did not operate in a changed consciousness within them. It could not, as Jesus said.

And as such, after a time those who walked away lost interest because they really didn't understand. Could not understand using the natural mind.

Which is also why Jesus made yet another distinction regarding saint and sinner, as those who walked away and Jesus said we're not one with us.
Jesus said of all the Father gives him (no one can come to me unless the Father leads, calls, them.), he shall lose none.

This does not pertain to the chosen who may choose to leave the faith for whatever reason. Because Jesus knows his sheep. And if a shepherd finds one has gone astray he goes in search of that one and recovers them and leads them back to the flock.

A Christian can walk away for a time. However God is not a man that he should lie. When God led that one to his son he knows them by name. And they are not lost because the shepherd is ever there for them.

He shall lose none.
Eternal irrevocable salvation by God's grace. Not of our doing so that none of us may boast we chose to let God give us his grace and enter therein to.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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People who believe Jesus Christ died for all mankind and that God desires the salvation of all mankind believe what the Bible says (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9; Eze 33:11).

You don't.
They think they believe the bible, but unfortunately they are deceived, may God be pleased to grant some of them repentance before His return, thats their only hope at this point.
 
Dec 21, 2020
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They think they believe the bible, but unfortunately they are deceived, may God be pleased to grant some of them repentance before His return, thats their only hope at this point.
Are you claiming that only Calvinists will be saved?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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If someone comes to a conclusion independently of another who came to the same conclusion, does that automatically make them a follower of that person?
 
Feb 5, 2023
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Sorry but you deceived friend.
Deceived,yes. Perhaps consider they're trying to understand using the natural mind. Maybe we can then understand better those we encounter who resort to sarcasm and condescension to get their point across when they defend their doctrine that is not aligned with God's words?
 
Feb 11, 2023
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The Bible preceded Calvinism. ☺️
It sure did:
10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Rom9:10-17

In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will Eph1:11
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,101
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Thanks for your honesty. So, is God just? In other words, is it just to require a payment, accept the payment, and still require payment?
The payment has been made. It's waiting to be applied to one's account. There's enough payment to go around for everyone.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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The payment has been made. It's waiting to be applied to one's account. There's enough payment to go around for everyone.
I got that part.
Now I'm asking about justice. If I borrow $100 dollars and the terms of repayment are that the loan is repayed in a week or I go to jail. Both parties agree. Someone during that time repays the loan on my behalf so the terms of the agreement are fulfilled. Would it be just if I am still put in jail?
 
Dec 21, 2020
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This not about Calvin. It's about God!
Let me rephrase..
Are you claiming that only people who believe as you do, that God does not want everyone to be saved and that He predetermined who He would save and who He wouldn't, will be saved?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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All of God's elect.

If your belief was correct Jesus would not have told us salvation is of God and only for those whom God calls.

Jesus said, a very important distinction in the verses of gospel, no one can come to him unless the Father leads, calls, them.

Jesus said through Paul the natural mind cannot comprehend the things of God because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural carnal mind is the worldly mind obsessed with the material world, the realm of flesh and carnal self serving passions.
This is why there are those saints who rightly say our adversary the Devil hides the truth of God's good news from us.
Because as we are forewarned but yet the worldly do not know this, the whole world lies in the power of the evil one, Satan.

And it is he who blinds people from the truth because the natural mind is within his domain. This is why God's Hy Spirit must intervene and therein overcome that condition in those whom he leads to his son. Which as Jesus taught us the only way anyone comes to him.
And of those the Father gives Jesus he shall lose none.

So while Jesus sacrifice was to save all people, those people and as Jesus said are only those whom the Father leads to him.

Jesus died for all those chosen, elected, by God unto salvation.

If everyone was saved the entire NT and Old for that matter would read very differently.

In one respect especially. Jesus death overcame the power of the 2nd death that was in Satan's control. If everyone without exception were saved, saying everyone without exception necessarily includes unbelievers due to the import of the word, everyone, then Satan would have ceased to exist as Lord of the carnal material world. Hell would have been open only to Satan and his angels. And there would not be a future judgement of saint and sinner to come .
But there is.

All does not equal every one.

All whom the Father gives Jesus.

And those are only able to understand the things of God that saved them because God's Holy Spirit overcomes the natural carnal mind that otherwise is unable to understand. Because to the natural carnal mind the gospel,the things of God are foolishness.

I think every Christian here knows someone for whom that applies. That one who thinks our faith is silly, myth,magical thinking, and so forth.

Jesus observed of those who had walked with him in his ministry and then left him, walked away. He said they were not one of us even though they walked with him for a time.

Those ones thought to choose to follow Jesus. That was the carnal natural mind thinking there was something to gain for doing this.

However, the natural mind cannot understand Jesus ministry, which is also why he explained his reason for teaching always in parables.

Therefore, those who walked with Jesus for personal reasons lost interest because the gospel did not operate in a changed consciousness within them. It could not, as Jesus said.

And as such, after a time those who walked away lost interest because they really didn't understand. Could not understand using the natural mind.

Which is also why Jesus made yet another distinction regarding saint and sinner, as those who walked away and Jesus said we're not one with us.
Jesus said of all the Father gives him (no one can come to me unless the Father leads, calls, them.), he shall lose none.

This does not pertain to the chosen who may choose to leave the faith for whatever reason. Because Jesus knows his sheep. And if a shepherd finds one has gone astray he goes in search of that one and recovers them and leads them back to the flock.

A Christian can walk away for a time. However God is not a man that he should lie. When God led that one to his son he knows them by name. And they are not lost because the shepherd is ever there for them.

He shall lose none.
Eternal irrevocable salvation by God's grace. Not of our doing so that none of us may boast we chose to let God give us his grace and enter therein to.
We have no verses to follow this thingy. Btw, this is a rehashed from many of the post which has already been dealt with and refuted