Does Israel fulfil prophecy

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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#1
Lets nut this out once and for all shall we.., does Israel the nation meet the requirements to classify itself as a fulfillment of prophecy or not?

God said he shall gather them and they shall dwell in peace and without walls.., yet since the establishment of Israel the nation there has been nothing but wars and unrest .., military walls and barricades. Would seem they fail this expectation

God said when his people turned back to him he would restore their fortunes and bring them back to the land.., would seem they jumped the gun wouldn't we think.., how have they returned to God yet in denial of Christ.

Is Israel the nation a fulfillment of prophecy or not., because from my perspective one has to be in willful self deception and denial to claim it is but Im open to hearing others takes on it
 
Jul 30, 2010
882
4
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#2
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quote=CrimsonFlames;588765]Lets nut this out once and for all shall we.., does Israel the nation meet the requirements to classify itself as a fulfillment of prophecy or not?


God said he shall gather them and they shall dwell in peace and without walls.., yet since the establishment of Israel the nation there has been nothing but wars and unrest .., military walls and barricades. Would seem they fail this expectation
God said when his people turned back to him he would restore their fortunes and bring them back to the land.., would seem they jumped the gun wouldn't we think.., how have they returned to God yet in denial of Christ.
Is Israel the nation a fulfillment of prophecy or not., because from my perspective one has to be in willful self deception and denial to claim it is but Im open to hearing others takes on it
Therefore you have failed to see that there is the first gathering of Israel and the second gathering of Israel.

1st Gathering - 1948
Jeremiah 16:14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt.

Jeremiah 16:15 But, The Lord, liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the land wither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

Jeremiah 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the Lord, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
(the situation of Israel since 1948, they are hated and hunted)

2nd Gathering
Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord that i will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgement and justice in the earth.
(not happened yet)

Jeremiah 23:6 In his days, Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Jeremiah 23:7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of he land of Egypt

Jeremiah 23:8 But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I have driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
(You notice first gathering God will send hunters to hunt them down, and the second gathering they will have one king ruling over them and they will dwell safely. Two different gatherings. Not the same)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#3
crimson.
we know obviously the church is believing israel expanded. spiritual israel.

you may find this anti-british-israelism site interesting.

There is a spiritual application running through all of these prophecies that should not be overlooked. When Hosea said, "Ye are not my people," but again, "Ye are the sons of the living God"—Hos. 1:10—it referred to the bringing together of the Jews and the Gentiles into the church, the spiritual Israel under Christ, their spiritual head. A direct quotation of the passage is made in 1 Pet. 2:10 and applied to the church as the royal priesthood, the holy nation and the chosen race. The passage from Hosea is also quoted by Paul in Rom. 9:2426 and applied specifically to the calling of the Gentiles. So the case in both the Old Testament and the New Testament is closed against Anglo-Israelism as well as all others who teach the restoration of national Israel either in whole or in part....

...Reverting again to the Hosea 1, those who were not his people, became his people—the Gentiles. Israel and Judah also became one people under one Head. The church is now the true Israel of God, the elect race, the royal priesthood, the holy nation, according to Peter—1 Peter 2:9-11. And Paul said the prophecy of Hosea was fulfilled when the Gentiles were given the opportunity to "seek the Lord" and "trust" in Christ—Rom. 9:24-27. If Christ is not the fulfillment of these prophecies, Gentiles do not now "trust" in him, and cannot now "seek the Lord."

http://www.seeking4truth.com/British_Israelism.htm
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#4
Passages on the "Seed" Compared:

"In thee and thy seed shall all families of the earth be blessed."—Gen. 12:3—"all nations"—Gal. 3:8. In Gal. 3:8 the apostle applies that promise to the justification of the Gentiles by faith, when the gospel was preached to them. Then in verse 16 continues: "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." So the New Testament says that the seed referred to Christ. It is emphasized that it referred to Abraham and his seed, as of one, not seeds, as of many, or in the sense of descendants. And the apostle adds: "And to thy seed, which is Christ." That settles the question as to the seed in that passage.

"In Isaac shall thy seed be called"—Gen. 21:12. In Rom. 9:78 Paul used this quotation to show that the seed mentioned here was a type of Christ. "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are children of the flesh, these are not the children of God." The meaning is, said Paul, that the children of the flesh are not the children of God, and the seed is therefore the spiritual, not the fleshly seed of Abraham at all. It refers to Christ, not the Anglo-Saxon race.

"Thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies"—Gen. 22:17. ~ Now, this is the pivotal passage; so note first that it says "seed"—not part of the seed of Abraham. So it could not refer to the ten tribes, as the Anglo-Israelists assert.. It would have to include all of the twelve tribes, which is fatal to the Israelists. And it does refer to something else.

If seed in Gen. 12:3 and Gen. 21:12 meant Christ, why cannot Gen. 22:17 mean Christ?

~

Passages on "Enemies" Compared:

Let me state the basis for the comparison to quicken interest. The word enemies is used in the sense of adversary. The word gate refers to power over, dominion. The word seed, as shown, had a future reference to Jesus Christ. The promise "thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies" meant that Jesus Christ should conquer and possess dominion over all his foes.
Let us see if a comparison of passages does not bear out this view of the matter.

Peter declared that "Christ" was the "seed" and the Jews in Jerusalem "the children of the covenant" contained in the promise—Acts 3:2526: "Ye are the children of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities."

David said that Christ would possess the uttermost parts of the earth—Psa. 2:18: "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying' Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for shine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession." Paul, quoting this language in Acts 13 :33, applied it to Jesus Christ, and said, "as in the second psalm." Peter, in Acts 4:2526, quoted the passage and applied it to Christ. Read it: "Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ." It is also quoted in Heb. 1:5 and in Heb. 5:5 and applied to Christ

David again declared that the seed which should be established was Jesus Christ Psa. 89:34, 3537. "I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, thy seed will I establish forever . . . Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. His seed shall endure forever and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established forever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven." The word seed in these verses is called fruit in Acts 2 :29, where Peter quotes these passages and applied them to Jesus Christ, the seed.

David further declares that Christ should conquer his enemies and rule in their midst—Psa. 110:12. "The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make shine enemies thy footstool. The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of shine enemies."

David here declared that Christ would thus rule in the midst of his enemies while he is priest after the order of Melchizedek, verse 4, which according to Hebrews 4, 5 and 7 is now.

This psalm is also quoted in Acts 2, by the apostle Peter, as having been fulfilled in Pentecost. The 110th psalm is also quoted in Heb. 1 :13; Heb. 5:5; and Heb. 10:13; showing that Christ is the seed, that he has made his enemies his footstool, and therefore the seed does "possess the gate of his enemies."

http://www.seeking4truth.com/British_Israelism.htm << anti-british-israelism
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#5
Thats cracked.., these people are crazy and so is anyone who believes that baloney

The problem is Christians of the western nations are partakers in the spoils of war and the children of privilege.., it is near impossible for someone of privilege to see the truth while they cling to their spoils and justify it as the prosperity of God
 
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systemdown101

Guest
#8
Lets nut this out once and for all shall we.., does Israel the nation meet the requirements to classify itself as a fulfillment of prophecy or not?
I just posted this, but one more time:

Zech 12:2-3 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about... And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces.
Turn on your TV and watch the news. What nation and what city would you most likely expect to see? Israel and Jerusalem! Today, Jerusalem is a burden that causes trembling for all the nations just as God foretold. What makes this prophecy even more remarkable is that when the prophet Zechariah spoke these words around 520BC, Jerusalem lay in ruins. But God said it would become the focus of the world's attention! Today, Israel has 0.01% of the worlds population, yet 33% of the United Nations resolutions have been passed concerning her!
God said when his people turned back to him he would restore their fortunes and bring them back to the land.., would seem they jumped the gun wouldn't we think.., how have they returned to God yet in denial of Christ.
Ah, but you forget:

The nation of Israel will finally recognize that Jesus was their Messiah, whom they crucified!
Zech 12:9-10 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem. And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
What a day that will be! Even though the Bible predicted that the Messiah would die, and have His feet and hands pierced, the nation of Israel has, for the last 2000 years, hardened their heart and not believed that Jesus was their Messiah. At the time of the end, they will again look to the one whom they pierced and oh how great the mourning and sadness will be on that day for what they did! Yet Jesus will pour out His grace upon Israel!
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#9
Joshua 21:45
None of the good promises the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed. Everything was fulfilled.

Seems to say all promises made to them already came to pass and are fulfilled as far as land is concerned.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#10
[
Therefore you have failed to see that there is the first gathering of Israel and the second gathering of Israel.

1st Gathering - 1948
Jeremiah 16:14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt.

Jeremiah 16:15 But, The Lord, liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the land wither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

Jeremiah 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the Lord, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
(the situation of Israel since 1948, they are hated and hunted)

2nd Gathering
Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord that i will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgement and justice in the earth.
(not happened yet)

Jeremiah 23:6 In his days, Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Jeremiah 23:7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of he land of Egypt

Jeremiah 23:8 But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I have driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
(You notice first gathering God will send hunters to hunt them down, and the second gathering they will have one king ruling over them and they will dwell safely. Two different gatherings. Not the same)
Jeremiah 29:10
(10) For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#11
Aren't all the people looking for a physical gathering of the Jews making the same mistake people made in Jesus' time when they looked for an earthly kingdom?

The Jerusalem all will be gathered to is the Jerusalem from above. Not some Jerusalem and Israel founded on rocks and dirt.

Rev 21....
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea existed no longer. 2 I also saw the Holy City, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.

Jesus is gathering his genetic remnant of Jews through the preaching of the gospel. They will eventually be gathered forever to the New Jerusalem of Rev 21, along with believing Gentiles, once all is accomplished. On that day all 'land promises' will be realized. We don't need a reestablished nation of Israel to be formed in order for God to gather his remnant of Jews to him through Jesus.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#12
Aren't all the people looking for a physical gathering of the Jews making the same mistake people made in Jesus' time when they looked for an earthly kingdom?

The Jerusalem all will be gathered to is the Jerusalem from above. Not some Jerusalem and Israel founded on rocks and dirt.

Rev 21....
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea existed no longer. 2 I also saw the Holy City, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.

Jesus is gathering his genetic remnant of Jews through the preaching of the gospel. They will eventually be gathered forever to the New Jerusalem of Rev 21, along with believing Gentiles, once all is accomplished. On that day all 'land promises' will be realized. We don't need a reestablished nation of Israel to be formed in order for God to gather his remnant of Jews to him through Jesus.

Acts 1:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, OUT OF EVERY NATION UNDER HEAVEN.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#13
Also, to say those inhabiting the land now are a fulfillment of prophecy, would in fact make God a liar. God said only covenant keepers are given that land as a promise. The Jews there now are NOT covenant keepers.


To side with the 'nation of Israel' occupying that land now, is actually to side with those who are warring against the true seed of Abraham.

God said he'd bless those who bless Abraham. Well who is his true seed? Those who believe in Jesus!

People in their zeal to side with Abraham by supporting "israel' now in that land, they are actually siding with people who are warring against Abrahams true seed! And we know what God said would happen to those who don't bless Abraham.
 
S

systemdown101

Guest
#14
Joshua 21:45
None of the good promises the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed. Everything was fulfilled.

Seems to say all promises made to them already came to pass and are fulfilled as far as land is concerned.
Except for all those prophecies concerning the land of Israel that were made AFTER Joshua. Or am I to understand that Zachariah, Isaiah, and Joel took place before Joshua?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#15
well look at america....if we get blessed like this anymore we will be gone.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#16
Except for all those prophecies concerning the land of Israel that were made AFTER Joshua. Or am I to understand that Zachariah, Isaiah, and Joel took place before Joshua?
lets take then one by one
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#17
Except for all those prophecies concerning the land of Israel that were made AFTER Joshua. Or am I to understand that Zachariah, Isaiah, and Joel took place before Joshua?
Some of them were fulfilled in Ezra and Nehemiah after they came back from their expulsion.

The other ones are only realized in the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21.

There is NO need for a physical gathering of Jews to happen, before they can be reached with the gospel and gathered in to his community of believers.
 
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systemdown101

Guest
#18
Some of them were fulfilled in Ezra and Nehemiah after they came back from their expulsion.

The other ones are only realized in the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21.

There is NO need for a physical gathering of Jews to happen, before they can be reached with the gospel and gathered in to his community of believers.
This must be the third time I've used this page today.

1. Disobedience would lead to the nation of Israel being scattered amongst all nations.
Deut 28:64 'Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other.'
See also Lev 26:33, Jer 9:16, Ezek 12:15. In all, 6 different books of the Bible predict the scattering of Israel amongst all the nations of the earth. History records this being fulfilled in 70 AD when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman Empire and the remaining Jews were scattered amongst the nations.
Not the key term "scattered. Has the Church been scattered? No.

No rest for their souls while in exile amongst the nations
Deut 28:65-66 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the LORD will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life.
For nearly 2000 years following the destruction in 70AD, the 'wandering Jew' has lived without a homeland, subject to the strongest racial prejudice and torment suffered by any people group. From the day they were scattered to the day Hitler devised his 'final solution to the Jewish problem', this prophecy spoken by Moses has sadly been fulfilled.
Pretty self-evident.

God himself would restore the Jews to the land of Israel from all the nations
Jer 16:14-16 However, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "when men will no longer say, &#8216;As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,&#8217; but they will say, &#8216;As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.&#8217; For I will restore them to the land I gave their forefathers.
In all, 13 books of the Bible speak of the nation of Israel being restored in their land from the nations in which they were scattered. This prophecy became history in 1948 when the United Nations granted a homeland to the Jewish people and the nation of Israel was reborn! See also Jer 3:14, 31:8-9, Isa 60:8-9, Deut 30:3, Amos 9:15.
So, are we to interpret this as God telling Christians that they were scattered and are now to be restored to their lands? Where was the Church "banished" to? Nope, gotta be the Jews and Israel.

The desolate land of Israel would again blossom and be fruitful in the last days.
Zech 7:14 I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations, where they were strangers. The land was left so desolate behind them that no one could come or go. This is how they made the pleasant land desolate.
History records that while the Jewish people were exiled amongst many nations, the land of Israel was a barren desert. See also Lev 26:14, Ezek 15:8, Jer 9:12-13, 23:10, 44:22, Isa 32:13
Isa 27:6 In the days to come, Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill the world with fruit.
This is exactly the case today! Not only has God bought the Jewish people back into their land like He said He would in the last days, but He has also blessed the land so that they now export flowers and fruit around the world! Satellite photos show the green pastures of the nation of Israel, in sharp contrast with the surrounding desert lands of the Arab nations. See also Isa 35:1, Ezek 36:35.
The Church was not scattered, the Jews were.

God Himself would defend Israel and cause Israel to be mighty in battle
Zech 12:8 On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them.
Taken in context, this verse speaks about God defending Israel in a battle to come in the last days. Have we not seen this miraculously occur several times since Israel became a nation again in 1948. They have been greatly outnumbered in key Arab-Israeli wars in 1948, 1967, and 1973. Yet Israel exists! God has seen to that!
It's been said before: Proof that God exists? The continued existence of the Jew and Israel. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that Israel could, should even exist, as outnumbered as they are, save with Divine intervention.

In the last days, Jerusalem would be a burden to the entire world.
Zech 12:2-3 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about... And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces.
Turn on your TV and watch the news. What nation and what city would you most likely expect to see? Israel and Jerusalem! Today, Jerusalem is a burden that causes trembling for all the nations just as God foretold. What makes this prophecy even more remarkable is that when the prophet Zechariah spoke these words around 520BC, Jerusalem lay in ruins. But God said it would become the focus of the world's attention! Today, Israel has 0.01% of the worlds population, yet 33% of the United Nations resolutions have been passed concerning her!
Doesn't make sense if you assume the Church is the new Israel.

In the end, all nations shall come against Israel.
Zech 14:2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped.
Apart from the USA, Israel has few allies. In a recent conference on racism in South Africa, the Israeli and United States delegates were forced to walk out as the other participating nations vented their anger towards Israel and tried to declare it a racist state. One day, the Bible predicts, she will have no allies, and all nations shall be gathered against her. The TV news will show you that we are on the road towards that battle. But if the odds seem a little uneven, please read the next prophecy that the Bible predicts...
Doesn't make sense if you assume the Church is the new Israel. It makes perfect sense if you assume that Israel is Israel. This might be a revolutionary idea, but maybe God means exactly what he says and we might be making a mistake when we spiritualize things that shouldn't be?

God Himself, Jesus Christ, will return and fight for Israel against the attacking nations.
Zech 14:3-4 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.
You may have heard of this battle to come. It's called the battle of Armageddon because of the location where the nations assemble themselves before attacking. The book of Revelation puts it like this...
Rev 16:14-16 They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty... Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
Revelation also prophecies the return of Jesus Christ on this day saying...
Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war.
Doesn't make sense if we assume the Church is the new Israel

The nation of Israel will finally recognize that Jesus was their Messiah, whom they crucified!
Zech 12:9-10 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem. And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
What a day that will be! Even though the Bible predicted that the Messiah would die, and have His feet and hands pierced, the nation of Israel has, for the last 2000 years, hardened their heart and not believed that Jesus was their Messiah. At the time of the end, they will again look to the one whom they pierced and oh how great the mourning and sadness will be on that day for what they did! Yet Jesus will pour out His grace upon Israel!
Can't wait for this one to happen. And yet, it doesn't make sense if we assume that the Church is the new Israel. Put another way, although many people have given up on the Jews, God hasn't! Not by a long shot!

God will judge the nations depending upon their treatment of the Jewish people.
Joel 1:1-2 In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
Today we live in an age where we hear all the time about a 'Middle-East peace process'. It essentially comes down to 'Israel give up more of your land and we won't send as many suicide bombers into your cities...' It seems everyone wants a slice of Jerusalem for themselves. For this, and the world's repeated and continual abysmal treatment of the Jewish people, the judgment of God will come.
I can't see any way of interpreting this one as Israel being the Church. As the first prophecy stated, the Jews were the ones "scattered", not believers. I haven't seen a judgement against the nations at Jehoshaphat in history, so this one must not have been fulfilled yet. This one might possibly scare a number of people who read it since this clearly states that those who were against the physical Israel and the Jews - not the Church calling itself the New Israel - are going to be in a lot of trouble. There's no real way to interpret this otherwise without turning Bible prophecy around like a pretzel.
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#19
Systemdown101., you do realise that Jews have been moving back to Palestine since early 1800's and have been living there in peace with the Palestinians right?

You do realise that after the holocaust Palestine opened up their homes and took in Jews like brothers and sisters right?

This is what gets me.., there was never any need for any of this conflict

And what of levitical law that demands compensation for injured parties.., the Palestinians who were forced out of their homes get nudda right.., never mind the fact they worked their whole lives to buy the land they were on just like any of us would in the western world.

This is what gets me., if you actually review the history with honesty and integrity the Palestinians were nothing but hospitable to the Jews who after being welcomed in with open arms took to slaughtering people and simply taking the homes from the very families who took them in. It simply blows my mind
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#20
This must be the third time I've used this page today.



Not the key term "scattered. Has the Church been scattered? No.



Pretty self-evident.



So, are we to interpret this as God telling Christians that they were scattered and are now to be restored to their lands? Where was the Church "banished" to? Nope, gotta be the Jews and Israel.



The Church was not scattered, the Jews were.



It's been said before: Proof that God exists? The continued existence of the Jew and Israel. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that Israel could, should even exist, as outnumbered as they are, save with Divine intervention.



Doesn't make sense if you assume the Church is the new Israel.



Doesn't make sense if you assume the Church is the new Israel. It makes perfect sense if you assume that Israel is Israel. This might be a revolutionary idea, but maybe God means exactly what he says and we might be making a mistake when we spiritualize things that shouldn't be?



Doesn't make sense if we assume the Church is the new Israel



Can't wait for this one to happen. And yet, it doesn't make sense if we assume that the Church is the new Israel. Put another way, although many people have given up on the Jews, God hasn't! Not by a long shot!



I can't see any way of interpreting this one as Israel being the Church. As the first prophecy stated, the Jews were the ones "scattered", not believers. I haven't seen a judgement against the nations at Jehoshaphat in history, so this one must not have been fulfilled yet. This one might possibly scare a number of people who read it since this clearly states that those who were against the physical Israel and the Jews - not the Church calling itself the New Israel - are going to be in a lot of trouble. There's no real way to interpret this otherwise without turning Bible prophecy around like a pretzel.
You're conflating and blurring a ton of things.

Yes the remnant of genetic Jews that believe Jesus are scattered until they are brought back as described in Rev 20 in the new Jerusalem. The grafted in gentiles will come with them.

Remember, the promise to abe isn't just land. It's about being a blessing to all nations. Gentiles brought back to the land in Rev are the fulfillment of the other part of the promise the hyper-landists often neglect.