Does Science go against faith?

[Married_Richenbrachen]

either the earth is spinning
or the entire universe is rotating around a stationary earth;

to embrace the second explanation is to throw out Occam's razor in a huge way!!

Actually, its far simpler to throw out the belief that the Earth is travelling around the sun. NASA (allegedly) did it for (allegedly) landing a man on the moon (heh, heh, heh). Pilots are taught to do it. No scientific fact requires that its the Earth traveling around the sun, and things are easier to describe if we do away with this belief altogether.

We actually have to make up more theories if we assume the Earth moves around the sun. A stationary Earth doesn't require Einstein's relativity, whereas the heliocentric theory needs Einstein's relativity theory as an excuse as to why experiments proved the Earth is still - (i.e. relativity: "experiments prove the Earth is still because it only appears to be still - really its moving").

Occam's razor actually supports a stationary Earth.

 

[ChristianGuy0]

The trcky part about evolution is that some aspects of it is true, and then they try to sneak big claims in along with those little things.

For example, animals do change- as Christians, we believe the massive diversity of animals today all descend from their original kinds. Kind of like how we have so many breeds of dogs- we think they all came from the same ancestors.

All we believe that is different is that we do not think all living things came from 2 single ancestors- we believe they came from a SET of ancestors. In other words, all humans come from the same pair (Adam and Eve), all dog-kinds from the their own original pair, all horse kinds etc.

And from those original sets, we see massive diversity today through change/"evolution"/adaption. For example, we have blacks, whites, Asians and Hispanics who are short, tall, big and small- all from 2 original humans. We also have many different types of dogs,who share their own common ancestor, but humans AND dogs do not share a common ancestor- only a common Creator.

 

[CoooCaw]

Actually, its far simpler to throw out the belief that the Earth is travelling around the sun. NASA (allegedly) did it for (allegedly) landing a man on the moon (heh, heh, heh). Pilots are taught to do it. No scientific fact requires that its the Earth traveling around the sun, and things are easier to describe if we do away with this belief altogether.

We actually have to make up more theories if we assume the Earth moves around the sun. A stationary Earth doesn't require Einstein's relativity, whereas the heliocentric theory needs Einstein's relativity theory as an excuse as to why experiments proved the Earth is still - (i.e. relativity: "experiments prove the Earth is still because it only appears to be still - really its moving").

Occam's razor actually supports a stationary Earth.

you gotta be in a parallel universe

 

[CoooCaw]

The trcky part about evolution is that some aspects of it is true, and then they try to sneak big claims in along with those little things.

For example, animals do change- as Christians, we believe the massive diversity of animals today all descend from their original kinds. Kind of like how we have so many breeds of dogs- we think they all came from the same ancestors.

All we believe that is different is that we do not think all living things came from 2 single ancestors- we believe they came from a SET of ancestors. In other words, all humans come from the same pair (Adam and Eve), all dog-kinds from the their own original pair, all horse kinds etc.

And from those original sets, we see massive diversity today through change/"evolution"/adaption. For example, we have blacks, whites, Asians and Hispanics who are short, tall, big and small- all from 2 original humans. We also have many different types of dogs,who share their own common ancestor, but humans AND dogs do not share a common ancestor- only a common Creator.

yeah probably with animal they started off with more than a pair until the flood
then there were 2 of the unclean and 7 of the clean

 

[zone]

Actually, its far simpler to throw out the belief that the Earth is travelling around the sun. NASA (allegedly) did it for (allegedly) landing a man on the moon (heh, heh, heh). Pilots are taught to do it. No scientific fact requires that its the Earth traveling around the sun, and things are easier to describe if we do away with this belief altogether.

We actually have to make up more theories if we assume the Earth moves around the sun. A stationary Earth doesn't require Einstein's relativity, whereas the heliocentric theory needs Einstein's relativity theory as an excuse as to why experiments proved the Earth is still - (i.e. relativity: "experiments prove the Earth is still because it only appears to be still - really its moving").

Occam's razor actually supports a stationary Earth.

Sticking with the example of astronomy, many marine navigation schools still teach the geocentric model; not because they don’t realize the earth moves, but because navigation is simply easier when you pretend the earth is fixed and everything moves around it.

SCOTT WEINGART

 

[SarahM777]

Sticking with the example of astronomy, many marine navigation schools still teach the geocentric model; not because they don’t realize the earth moves, but because navigation is simply easier when you pretend the earth is fixed and everything moves around it.

SCOTT WEINGART

UMMM But,but,but wouldn't it be easier to just come to the conclusion that the earth is still?

 

[AvalonXQ]

Actually, its far simpler to throw out the belief that the Earth is travelling around the sun. NASA (allegedly) did it for (allegedly) landing a man on the moon (heh, heh, heh).

Ah, trolling. Took me long enough to figure it*out.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

Ah, trolling. Took me long enough to figure it*out.

I tried to find where I had read that, but either its been purged from the net, or that wasn't exactly what I read (probably the latter). This is probably what I was trying to remember:

For example, in a letter written to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) making the following inquiry: “Is the present movement of GOES [Geostationary Satellite] planned and executed on the basis of a fixed earth or a rotating earth?” the answer returned by the department head of GOES/POLAR Navigation, Office of Satellite Operations at the NOAA was very simple: “Fixed earth.”[1]

Question 208 – Struggling with question on Geocentrism | bellarmineforum's Xanga Site

 

[megaman125]

Actually, its far simpler to throw out the belief that the Earth is travelling around the sun. NASA (allegedly) did it for (allegedly) landing a man on the moon (heh, heh, heh). Pilots are taught to do it. No scientific fact requires that its the Earth traveling around the sun, and things are easier to describe if we do away with this belief altogether.

We actually have to make up more theories if we assume the Earth moves around the sun. A stationary Earth doesn't require Einstein's relativity, whereas the heliocentric theory needs Einstein's relativity theory as an excuse as to why experiments proved the Earth is still - (i.e. relativity: "experiments prove the Earth is still because it only appears to be still - really its moving").

Occam's razor actually supports a stationary Earth.

Ok, at first I thought the whole Earth being stationary idea was silly, but the more I read your posts and see your perspective, the more curious I'm getting about it.

Well, it's not like it affects my faith either way.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Ok, at first I thought the whole Earth being stationary idea was silly, but the more I read your posts and see your perspective, the more curious I'm getting about it.

Go for it - geocentrism is about your level of sophistication in other areas of science as well.

 

[megaman125]

Go for it - geocentrism is about your level of sophistication in other areas of science as well.

It's not my fault he's starting to sound convincing and you can't seem to do anything about it other than throw around insults.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

Ok, at first I thought the whole Earth being stationary idea was silly, but the more I read your posts and see your perspective, the more curious I'm getting about it.

Well, it's not like it affects my faith either way.

I understand. Same happened with me, also. I thought geocentrists were madmen, but I became intrigued because of the scriptures that seemed to support the Earth was stationary. Then I found out Galileo never proved the Earth orbited the sun - he essentially just said "you can't prove the sun orbits the Earth". Then I researched further, and found out the evidence actually better supports a stationary Earth. One of the experimenters (George Airy), actually has his experiment referred to as "Airy's failure", because he set out to prove the Earth was moving, and the experimental result proved it did not. The reason Einstein's relativity was invented was to explain away the experiments that proved the Earth was stationary, yet I understand all the great scientists thought Einstein's relativity was a joke (e.g. Tesla was a firm believer in ether, which relativity tries to do away with).

The stationary Earth resolves the Creationist problem of starlight. If the Earth is stationary, stars (and the "universe") are much closer (and much smaller), and you don't need the millions of years for light to get to Earth.

I have found understanding that the Earth is stationary has improved my faith.

 

[AvalonXQ]

It's not my fault he's starting to sound convincing and you can't seem to do anything about it other than throw around insults.

You're right - I can't do anything about what gullible and uneducated people decide to believe. Once they start out-right denying basic facts like the laws of motion and the existence of space travel, there's no longer even a mechanism to reach them with facts.

He has the facts and denies them. You're welcome to do the same. If it were up to me, all creationists would be geocentrists - and miasmists too - so that everyone else would even more clearly know not to take them seriously.

 

[AvalonXQ]

The stationary Earth resolves the Creationist problem of starlight. If the Earth is stationary, stars (and the "universe") are much closer (and much smaller), and you don't need the millions of years for light to get to Earth.

Have you determined how close the sun, moon, and stars would have to be according to your model, and done the necessary parallax experiments to verify their distances?

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

Have you determined how close the sun, moon, and stars would have to be according to your model, and done the necessary parallax experiments to verify their distances?

To be honest, no. I've read the stars would be a matter of light-days away though, not light years. The sun and moon would be at similar distances.

 

[zone]

I understand. Same happened with me, also. I thought geocentrists were madmen, but I became intrigued because of the scriptures that seemed to support the Earth was stationary. Then I found out Galileo never proved the Earth orbited the sun - he essentially just said "you can't prove the sun orbits the Earth". Then I researched further, and found out the evidence actually better supports a stationary Earth. One of the experimenters (George Airy), actually has his experiment referred to as "Airy's failure", because he set out to prove the Earth was moving, and the experimental result proved it did not. The reason Einstein's relativity was invented was to explain away the experiments that proved the Earth was stationary, yet I understand all the great scientists thought Einstein's relativity was a joke (e.g. Tesla was a firm believer in ether, which relativity tries to do away with).

The stationary Earth resolves the Creationist problem of starlight. If the Earth is stationary, stars (and the "universe") are much closer (and much smaller), and you don't need the millions of years for light to get to Earth.

I have found understanding that the Earth is stationary has improved my faith.

Genesis 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

 

[zone]

You're right - I can't do anything about what gullible and uneducated people decide to believe. .......

the existence of space travel, there's no longer even a mechanism to reach them with facts.

.....not to take them seriously.

[video=youtube;sRSpntQ-VtY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRSpntQ-VtY[/video]

Apollo 17 Lunar Rover


ARE....YOU....SERIOUS?

a VW chassis dune buggy with ludicrous contraptions welded to it....roaring around in sand in a studio........then just slo-mo x2 for the gullible.

come on....you don't really believe this do you?

 

[zone]

Ok, at first I thought the whole Earth being stationary idea was silly, but the more I read your posts and see your perspective, the more curious I'm getting about it.

Well, it's not like it affects my faith either way.

http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/55743-geocentrism.html < click

THE SUN IS MOVING...NOT THE EARTH:

Psalm 19
1 The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky abovea proclaims his handiwork.
2 Day to day pours out speech,a
and night to night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech, nor are there words,
whose voice is not heard.
4 Their voiceb goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
In them he has set a tent for the sun,
5 which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber,
and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy.
6 Its rising is from the end of the heavens,
and its circuit to the end of them,
and there is nothing hidden from its heat.

~


Joshua 1:4
"...the going down of the sun...."

Joshua 8:29
"...as soon as the sun was down...."

Joshua 10:12
"...Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon...."

Joshua 10:13
"...and the sun stood still...."

^ check the account of this story - God CLEARLY STOPS THE SUN FROM MOVING, NOT THE EARTH.

Joshua 10:27
"...the time of the going down of the sun...."

Joshua 12:1
"...toward the rising of the sun...."

Judges 5:31
"...as the sun when he goeth down...."

Judges 8:13
"...before the sun was up...."

Judges 9:33
"...as soon as the sun is up...."

Judges 14:18
"...before the sun went down...."

Judges 19:14
"...and the sun went down...."

II Samuel 2:24
"...the sun went down...."

II Samuel 3:35
"...till the sun be down...."

II Samuel 23:4
"...when the sun riseth...."

I Kings 22:36
"...the going down of the sun...."

I Chronicles 16:30
"...the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved...."

II Chronicles 18:34
"...time of the sun going down...."

Job 9:7
"...commandeth the sun and it riseth not...."

Job 26:7
"...He hangeth the earth upon nothing...."

Psalm 19:4
"...tabernacle for the sun...."

Psalm 19:5
"...cometh out to run...."

Psalm 19:6
"...goes forth in a circle from one end of heaven to the other...."

Psalm 50:1
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Psalm 93:1
"...the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved...."

Psalm 104:19
"...the sun knoweth his going down...."

Psalm 104:22
"...the sun ariseth...."

Psalm 113:3
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Ecclesiastes 1:5
"...The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down and hasteth to the place where he arose...."

Isaiah 13:10
"...sun shall be darkened in his going...."

Isaiah 38:8
"...is gone down on the sundial of Ahaz...."

Isaiah 38:8
"...so the sun returned...."

Isaiah 41:25
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Isaiah 45:6
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Isaiah 59:19
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Isaiah 60:20
"...the sun shall no more go down...."

Jeremiah 15:9
"...her sun is gone down while it was yet day...."

Daniel 6:14
"...going down of the sun...."

Amos 8:9
"...cause the sun to go down at noon...."

Jonah 4:8
"...when the sun did arise...."

Micah 3:6
"...and the sun shall go down...."

Nahum 3:17
"...when the sun ariseth...."

Habakkuk 3:11
"...the sun and moon stood still in their habitation...."

Malachi 1:11
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Matthew 5:45
"...for He maketh His sun to rise...."

Matthew 13:6
"...and when the sun was up...."

Mark 1:32
"...when the sun did set...."

Mark 4:6
"...when the sun was up...."

Mark 16:2
"...at the rising of the sun...."

Luke 4:40
"...when the sun was setting...."

Ephesians 4:26
"...let not the sun go down upon your wrath...."

James 1:11
"...for the sun is no sooner risen...."

..............

NUMBER OF VERSES WHICH STATE THE SUN IS MOVING - 67 IN 37 BOOKS

NUMBER OF VERSES WHICH STATE THE EARTH IS MOVING - 0

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

Have you determined how close the sun, moon, and stars would have to be according to your model, and done the necessary parallax experiments to verify their distances?

I haven't been able to find anything yet, but I do remember reading it was in the order of light-days, if that. Essentially, I need a distance on Earth, and the difference in angle to view the particular star between each end-point along the displacement (on Earth). Then its a matter of simple trigonometry to resolve for distance to star. :|

@Megaman - if you're interested, definitely have a browse through Zone's thread on Geocentrism. Its pretty good, and throws some light on the pagan (Kabbalah) origins of big bang theory etc. "Modern" science is just ancient paganism, in a cheap costume.

 

[zone]

Genesis 1:7
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

.....

And divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; the lower part of it, the atmosphere above, which are the clouds full of water, from whence rain descends upon the earth; and which divided between them and those that were left on the earth, and so under it, not yet gathered into one place; as it now does between the clouds of heaven and the waters of the sea. Though Mr. Gregory (a) is of opinion, that an abyss of waters above the most supreme orb is here meant; or a great deep between the heavens and the heaven of heavens, where, as in storehouses, the depth is laid up; and God has his treasures of snow, hail, and rain, and from whence he brought out the waters which drowned the world at the universal deluge. Others suppose the waters above to be the crystalline heaven, which for its clearness resembles water; and which Milton (b) calls the "crystalline ocean"...- John Gill


Genesis 1:8
And God called the firmament Heaven.

Genesis 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Genesis 1:15
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Genesis 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Genesis 1:17
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,