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O
Paul himself knew that even he was not ''eternally secure''.
1st Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection, lest by any means, that when I have preached to others, I myself might be a castaway.
He knew to gain eternal life he must keep his body (or flesh) under subjection that he did not revert to a life style of sin and hate, by which he would become a castaway.
1st Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection, lest by any means, that when I have preached to others, I myself might be a castaway.
He knew to gain eternal life he must keep his body (or flesh) under subjection that he did not revert to a life style of sin and hate, by which he would become a castaway.
O
The teaching of OSAS have these people believing they are going to heaven regardless of their lifestyle, the doctrine itself has rotten fruit that is just the way it is. I know many of people living in open sin that declare their allegance to Christ and think that is enough to get them to heaven. You can not find the doctrine of Eternal Security in scripture. Scripture teaches 2 things that oppose the doctrine of OSAS.
#1 You can turn from Christ after Salvation.
#2 You must endure, overcome keep the faith until the end.
Either one of those biblical pricables disprove eternal security and in combination there should really be no doubt as to what the scripture is tellling us.
I have a post in here I posted earlier that shows that Jesus told the church in Asia to repent or he would take their candle out of its place, erase their name from the book of life, fight against them with the sword of His mouth (These verse can be found in Revelation Chapter 2 and 3). Now these are people who at one time where saved and still probably believed themselves to be saved, yet Jesus told them to repent or their salvation would be forfeited. JESUS SAID THIS, eternal security flies right in the face of the admonisment Jesus gave these churches.
#1 You can turn from Christ after Salvation.
#2 You must endure, overcome keep the faith until the end.
Either one of those biblical pricables disprove eternal security and in combination there should really be no doubt as to what the scripture is tellling us.
I have a post in here I posted earlier that shows that Jesus told the church in Asia to repent or he would take their candle out of its place, erase their name from the book of life, fight against them with the sword of His mouth (These verse can be found in Revelation Chapter 2 and 3). Now these are people who at one time where saved and still probably believed themselves to be saved, yet Jesus told them to repent or their salvation would be forfeited. JESUS SAID THIS, eternal security flies right in the face of the admonisment Jesus gave these churches.
C
my one comment after reading all these posts , i personally wouldnt want to know if i can live a life of hell and rebellion to God and still go to heaven. first of all living a sinful life can b fun..for a season, but the end result never is.and the thought of knowingly and willingly trampling Gods grace..i want no part of....just my opinion
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The assumption is that since you believe in eternal security you're seeking ways to live in immorality. That is the furthest from the truth!
Eternal security doesn't mean freedom to live in sin, it means truly realizing God has made a commitment to conform you to Christ. This means God will see you through to the end, including your sanctification and eternal security.
Eternal security doesn't mean freedom to live in sin, it means truly realizing God has made a commitment to conform you to Christ. This means God will see you through to the end, including your sanctification and eternal security.
1
Some of you seem to have a very limited view of salvation. You act as if it's something God throws out on the table, then says, "have at it."
God does more than throw the option for salvation on the table for us to pick up. He pledges himself to us and commits to conform us to Christ.
Romans 8 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
When God predestines something, he sees it through to the end. If you claim to be saved, but there is NO evidence of becoming more Christ like, then chances are there is NO work of God in your life.
God does more than throw the option for salvation on the table for us to pick up. He pledges himself to us and commits to conform us to Christ.
Romans 8 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
When God predestines something, he sees it through to the end. If you claim to be saved, but there is NO evidence of becoming more Christ like, then chances are there is NO work of God in your life.
O
Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden underfoot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again I shall judge my people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
This is a straight forward, very harsh word. To those that have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus' death yet continue to willfully commit sin, they will receive the harshest judgment of all. The judgment coming against them will be worse than anyone who has never accepted Jesus at all. Let's section this passage out into two verse sections so we can see exactly what it is actually saying.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that shall devour the adversaries.
In the Old Testament the priest would go once a year to sacrifice a sacrifice for their own sins and the sins of the people. But now Jesus has given Himself once and for all for the sins of the whole world. Jesus' sacrifice does not just cover our sin; He erases it. So if we continue to sin unrepentantly after we accept his sacrifice, then our profession of faith is mute and our new sins remain. Jesus taught in Luke 24:47 that we not just apolgize of our sin, but that we should repent which includes ''remission'' or refraining from sin.
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name, among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Jesus said we should teach repentance and remissions of sins, not just forgiveness of them. If we do not teach that we need to depart from sin after salvation, then we are not teaching the gospel that Christ taught. Also if we as individuals do not depart from sin after salvation, we are no longer looking towards the resurrection of the just, but the fiery indignation that will devour the enemies of God.
Hebrews 10:28-29
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden underfoot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite the Spirit of grace?
WOW! It says he that despised Moses' law died without mercy, how much sorer punishment should you be thought worthy of, who trodden under the foot the Son of God, and have counted the blood of the covenant by which you were sanctified an unholy thing, and have done so despite the Spirit of grace. Who is it that despised or broke Moses' law? All of us we all have sinned.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
So who are those that have trodden under the foot the Son of God, and have counted the blood of the covenant by which you were sanctified an unholy thing? All those that have accept Jesus as Savior but refuse to make Him Lord. All those that have asked for God forgiveness through the blood of Christ, yet continue to sin, refusing to conform to God's word. If you have been saved, if you have been cleansed by the blood of Christ, yet you continue to commit sin, disregarding the God that has saved you. Then you have trodden under the foot the Son of God, and have counted the blood of the covenant by which you were sanctified an unholy thing. And worse of all they have done this despite the Spirit of grace, they disregard God Himself as well as His grace given us all to empower us to overcome sin. They remain in sin and still claim Christianity. God says they deserve a much sorer punishment than those that broke Moses' law. Once again all have broke Moses' law, but only those that have once been saved qualify for this much sorer punishment because they know the truth and still refuse to walk in it.
2nd Peter 2:20-21
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of this world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse from the than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
You are better off never being saved than after your salvation turning from your faith, and/ or continuing in sin, after making a confession of faith. Those that continue to sin after being saved are no longer breaking Moses' law. They are now stomping on Christ Himself and counting His blood of the new covenant by which they were cleansed an unholy thing and they do this despite the Spirit of grace. It is like spitting in God's face. Not only do they deserve a much more sorer punishment but they will indeed receive it unless they repent and remiss from their sins.
Hebrews 10:30-31
30 For we know him that hath said vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again I shall judge my people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
God will judge His people. God is not only all loving, forgiving, and merciful. Although He is all loving, forgiving, and merciful, He is also a God of vengeance, justice, and judgment. God deserves more than just our love, honor, and praise, but our fear, reverence, and respect also. Those of you that have been taught OSAS have lost your reverential fear of God, so you live your life not fearing God's judgment, you feel you have no need to repent nor remiss from your sins. Therefore on the day of judgment Jesus will tell you, "I never knew you, depart from me you worker of iniquity." Start fearing God now and repent for your sin and turn from your evil ways and God will forgive you, and embrace you as His dear child. If you refuse to repent God will judge you for the works you have done.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul, but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
26 For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden underfoot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again I shall judge my people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
This is a straight forward, very harsh word. To those that have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus' death yet continue to willfully commit sin, they will receive the harshest judgment of all. The judgment coming against them will be worse than anyone who has never accepted Jesus at all. Let's section this passage out into two verse sections so we can see exactly what it is actually saying.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that shall devour the adversaries.
In the Old Testament the priest would go once a year to sacrifice a sacrifice for their own sins and the sins of the people. But now Jesus has given Himself once and for all for the sins of the whole world. Jesus' sacrifice does not just cover our sin; He erases it. So if we continue to sin unrepentantly after we accept his sacrifice, then our profession of faith is mute and our new sins remain. Jesus taught in Luke 24:47 that we not just apolgize of our sin, but that we should repent which includes ''remission'' or refraining from sin.
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name, among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Jesus said we should teach repentance and remissions of sins, not just forgiveness of them. If we do not teach that we need to depart from sin after salvation, then we are not teaching the gospel that Christ taught. Also if we as individuals do not depart from sin after salvation, we are no longer looking towards the resurrection of the just, but the fiery indignation that will devour the enemies of God.
Hebrews 10:28-29
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden underfoot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite the Spirit of grace?
WOW! It says he that despised Moses' law died without mercy, how much sorer punishment should you be thought worthy of, who trodden under the foot the Son of God, and have counted the blood of the covenant by which you were sanctified an unholy thing, and have done so despite the Spirit of grace. Who is it that despised or broke Moses' law? All of us we all have sinned.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
So who are those that have trodden under the foot the Son of God, and have counted the blood of the covenant by which you were sanctified an unholy thing? All those that have accept Jesus as Savior but refuse to make Him Lord. All those that have asked for God forgiveness through the blood of Christ, yet continue to sin, refusing to conform to God's word. If you have been saved, if you have been cleansed by the blood of Christ, yet you continue to commit sin, disregarding the God that has saved you. Then you have trodden under the foot the Son of God, and have counted the blood of the covenant by which you were sanctified an unholy thing. And worse of all they have done this despite the Spirit of grace, they disregard God Himself as well as His grace given us all to empower us to overcome sin. They remain in sin and still claim Christianity. God says they deserve a much sorer punishment than those that broke Moses' law. Once again all have broke Moses' law, but only those that have once been saved qualify for this much sorer punishment because they know the truth and still refuse to walk in it.
2nd Peter 2:20-21
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of this world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse from the than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
You are better off never being saved than after your salvation turning from your faith, and/ or continuing in sin, after making a confession of faith. Those that continue to sin after being saved are no longer breaking Moses' law. They are now stomping on Christ Himself and counting His blood of the new covenant by which they were cleansed an unholy thing and they do this despite the Spirit of grace. It is like spitting in God's face. Not only do they deserve a much more sorer punishment but they will indeed receive it unless they repent and remiss from their sins.
Hebrews 10:30-31
30 For we know him that hath said vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again I shall judge my people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
God will judge His people. God is not only all loving, forgiving, and merciful. Although He is all loving, forgiving, and merciful, He is also a God of vengeance, justice, and judgment. God deserves more than just our love, honor, and praise, but our fear, reverence, and respect also. Those of you that have been taught OSAS have lost your reverential fear of God, so you live your life not fearing God's judgment, you feel you have no need to repent nor remiss from your sins. Therefore on the day of judgment Jesus will tell you, "I never knew you, depart from me you worker of iniquity." Start fearing God now and repent for your sin and turn from your evil ways and God will forgive you, and embrace you as His dear child. If you refuse to repent God will judge you for the works you have done.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul, but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
N
Discernment? Are we talking discernment of the spiritual kind or just human logic which can be easily pursuaded? It's very strange to me to hear someone speak of spiritual discernment who holds to a belief system that widely professes the spiritual gifts are no longer relevant in this day and age. However, that's a different discussion for another thread.
Anyways, if Paul embraced Once Saved Always Saved, then please explain Hebrews 10: 23 -38?
Anyways, if Paul embraced Once Saved Always Saved, then please explain Hebrews 10: 23 -38?
C
I take No credit for everything that follows, it's a friend of mine that heard about this debate and I find him very very good. He goes by the nick : 831. He wrote this to help those who are being mislead by what he says in false teachings that a GENUINE CHRISTIAN can lose their salvation. He strongly disagrees and provides the evidence. Here is what he says....
1. ETERNAL LIFE IS ETERNAL! John 3:15, 10:28, Romans 6:23, 1 John 2:25, 5:11, 5:13, etc.; By definition eternal means never ending. Once a believer has eternal life it can never be taken away. If it could be it would not be eternal!
Eternal also means that it has no beginning! If you had to gain it, you don
1. ETERNAL LIFE IS ETERNAL! John 3:15, 10:28, Romans 6:23, 1 John 2:25, 5:11, 5:13, etc.; By definition eternal means never ending. Once a believer has eternal life it can never be taken away. If it could be it would not be eternal!
Eternal also means that it has no beginning! If you had to gain it, you don
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