Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,770
113
...We have been given a new heart and have to learn how to make a new sound with our minds from the use of it. Much like a bell when it bongs....The old man with his ways is dead and gone...

Let's just focus on these statements to see what is true and what is false, using Scripture as our basis of understanding the dilemma. Yes, it is perfectly true that when God regenerates a sinner by His grace, he gives him or her a new heart and a new spirit, and makes that person a "new creature in Christ". Which also means that "old things are passed away, behold all things are become new'.

But here is where your understanding of this fails. "The old man with his ways is dead and gone". That is a false statement, and can lead to a total misunderstanding of sin in the believer's life.

The "old man" was indeed "crucified with Christ", which means that the POWER of the old Adamic sin nature was destroyed in three ways: (1) sin would no longer have dominion over the believer; (2) the old sins of the unregenerate person would not be brought up by God (who would have "cast them behind His back") through the remission of sins at the time of salvation; and the gift of the Holy Spirit (with the indwelling of the Spirit) would enable every Christian to become an overcomer (as long as he crucified or mortified the "flesh").

However -- and this is extremely important -- our "old man" was not eradicated ("dead and gone" as you claim), which means that the PRESENCE of the sin nature would remain until the Rapture. And it is because of this that Paul has given this exhortation in Galatians 5:13-26. [It is a given that any teaching to any church or individual in the NT is applicable to every church and every individual believer]

13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. [If there was no "flesh" within the believer why would Paul say this?]

14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


15
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. [If these manifestations were impossible, why would Paul say this?]

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. [If the lust of the flesh was "dead and gone", why would Paul say this?]

17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[If there was no conflict between the flesh and the Spirit within the believer, why would Paul say this?]


18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


SINS OF THE FLESH POSSIBLE IN CHRISTIANS
19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


20
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


23
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


24
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. [
If there was no flesh to crucify, why would Paul say this?]

25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. [If these sins were not possible in believers, why would Paul say this?]

I trust that after reading this you (and others who may be like-minded) will firmly set aside their false notions and false teachings, and get back to Bible truth.



 
Last edited:
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
called the foundation of Jesus Christ the Righteous. Careful now...:)
No Maam, he continues to say Jesus died for all sins and we must have faith in God<<<<<faith in God is an elementary teaching per Heb 6....
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
Of course I understand that, yet if God does something now, it is done now. If He did something then, it was done then. There are actions that God accomplishes that have finality. The crucifixion and it's purpose was completed once and once only for all. Your future sins are covered by that event.
Your point is that we have some say whether or not that event applies, by our continued repentance of sins you allege applies in the scripture.
Limey,
The SIN problem was taken care of over 2,000 years ago...this is truth...

relational forgiveness as taught by Christ...this is also truth....

I believe this is what she is saying....

Also repentance is not one and you are done..it is ongoing......repentance is part of progressive sanctification and also includes relational forgiveness....to Father for SIN and to others....
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
I am only a child of God, whatever label you wish to put on me does not conform with who God says I am. That is my only "side".

I think you actually agreed with me somewhat??.

My point was exactly that He died only once, a long time ago for the forgiveness of all sin. Your point was that He only died for all of our sin, up to the point of salvation.

So you ask Father for relational forgiveness when you SIN now?...If someone lies about you and costs you something do seek their forgiveness?
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
Believers are in the light 24/7. Walking means a sphere of where one lives and moves about....where they tread with their feet as they go about life. In the light is a "position" that we are in because we are in Christ.

Believers are definitely in the light. The scriptures are clear on this. We do not go in and out of being in the light to being in darkness because one sins. We are giving in to the flesh to fulfill "its" desires when one sins. Romans 6:13

The same as we don't go from being a sheep when we sin to being a goat...and then when we don't do that particular sin again ( for however long that would be? ) - we go back to being a sheep again.

Ephesians 5:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]
for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light ( we should be walking out who we are in the light..but it's through Him we do that. He bears His fruit on us - the branches )

Colossians 1:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of
the saints in Light.

1 Thessalonians 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;


Exactly. We must let the Bible interpret the Bible. Not our teachings set in stone in our minds eye as that fogs our interpretation of the Bible. The Bible is the final authority and we are told to read it with the guidance and instruction of the Holy Spirit. To hear it over and over so the renewing of our minds becomes (on going). We want the Holy Spirit to be able to flow the truth in us without being hindered by our old man and our old ways of thinking.

"Let" this mind be in you that is in Christ Jesus. We have to work (out) that mind that is in us.. as we read and hear the Word and learn from the Holy Spirit as He teaches and guides us through to the truth and away from our old mind sets and manner of living. It is then we will have proper interpretation by comparing Scripture with Scripture.

If we don't learn how to do this., we will remain babies as far as Bible truth goes. We will fight and contend not for the faith but for our own opinions and interpretations.



 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
I would not worry brother....those who devalue grace as they do, and then push what they do over what Jesus has done state clearly that their Jesus is weak, ineffectual and void of the glory that belongs unto him and him alone.......more coined phrases to coddle their false teaching.....no such thing as easy gracers......what a crying shame to throw the grace of God right back into his faith while saying the work of your Son is incomplete, will not work and his blood is not sufficient.....no wonder the number is plenteous that Jesus speaks about....
stop your outright lies to defame character...not one of us said we devalue grace...stop it now..
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
if anyone is not convicted when they hurt The Most Hurted,
then, there just isn't anything left to say, if they 'claim Christ'...
it's out of our court...
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
28
So you ask Father for relational forgiveness when you SIN now?...If someone lies about you and costs you something do seek their forgiveness?
I thank Him for His Grace and Mercy and His forgiveness. Out of that abundance I live. Asking Him again and again for something He has already given, fully and completely seems a little ungrateful to me.

I'm not quite sure what the 2nd part of your question means.
 
Last edited:

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83

I agree. We are passionate about our particular calling and "part" in the body of Christ.

The Apostle wants to preach the foundational truths of Christ Himself and His work on the cross and resurrection.

The Prophets want people to know the heart of the father and our Lord and to "see" with Their eyes and heart towards others.

The Evangelist can't see why people are sitting and listening to "teaching" when there is a world out there that needs to know about Christ.

The Teacher sees the need for the Christian to grow in the grace and knowledge of what Christ has already done for us.

The Pastor is thinking of how he is going to care for these precious ones that have been beat up by life and in some cases religion.

It is not wise to try to bring others into our own unique calling in the body of Christ and to try to "force" them to be doing the same thing.

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

I noticed that both "groups" were "building the house".


Well worth re posting Brother!
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
I agree, maybe just a little differently. I believe that as we walk with the Holy Spirit, we look to Him for guidance, for help, for our understanding of the life in which we now live with Him.

With Him doing a work within and through us.

Sin will not cause the Holy Spirit to leave us, because Christ defeated sin, and it no longer has any power over us. As far as God is concerned he no longer looks at us as sinners.

God's only concern is are we a forgiven sinner that is alive with Him, or are we a forgiven sinner that is dead. Forgiveness doesn't change, but Salvation is for only us, those that believe on what was accomplished.

Being alive in Christ is what He wants for us.

Those that refuse the Holy Spirit (or reject it, or deny it, or whatever) are dead.

Those that embrace what Jesus did on the cross, and accept the free gift of salvation through our resurrection by the Holy Spirit, are now made alive.

Circling back, I believe that God shows us our sinful nature (conviction of the world), that we were born into, so that we will understand our depravity, and our need for a Savior, then look to Him for the solution.

I may have gone a little off topic.


Limey....

Eph 4.25-32

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, [SUP]27 [/SUP]and do not give the devil an opportunity. [SUP]28 [/SUP]He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

This tells us very clearly acting in these ways grieve the Holy Spirit...grieve means to cause sorrow and offend....SIN causes sorrow and offends the Holy Spirit....

I Thess 5.19

s. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Do not quench the Spirit;

This means to suppress him ....SIN and acting in the flesh and sinful suppress him

I am having trouble tracking you here....maybe you could help me out...
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
I thank Him for His Grace and Mercy and His forgiveness. Out of that abundance I live. Asking Him again and again for something He has already given, fully and completely seems a little ungrateful to me.

I'm not quite sure what the 2nd part of your question means.

1st part: So if you wrong someone, you do not ask for them to forgive you? Instead they should just be thankful for your grace mercy and forgiveness?

2nd part: If someone commits a sin against you that hurts and offends you do you forgive them?
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
28
1st part: So if you wrong someone, you do not ask for them to forgive you? Instead they should just be thankful for your grace mercy and forgiveness?

2nd part: If someone commits a sin against you that hurts and offends you do you forgive them?
Part 1: I sure do try, doesn't always work out that way, God's grace, forgiveness and mercy and my grace, forgiveness and mercy cannot be compared.

Part2: Eventually I do. I think at this point I'm close to 90%
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
28
Limey....

Eph 4.25-32

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, [SUP]27 [/SUP]and do not give the devil an opportunity. [SUP]28 [/SUP]He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

This tells us very clearly acting in these ways grieve the Holy Spirit...grieve means to cause sorrow and offend....SIN causes sorrow and offends the Holy Spirit....

I Thess 5.19

s. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Do not quench the Spirit;

This means to suppress him ....SIN and acting in the flesh and sinful suppress him

I am having trouble tracking you here....maybe you could help me out...

So we are all grieving and suppressing the Holy Spirit. How does He cope with that?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
No Maam, he continues to say Jesus died for all sins and we must have faith in God<<<<<faith in God is an elementary teaching per Heb 6....
Yep, you both throw punches.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
The bible does not contradict itself, that is correct.

So then we must either reevaluate what the scriptures say about forgiveness, or reevaluate what John says about confession.

I will give you a perfect example of how things can be looked at differently

Colosions 3:13

"Bear with each other and forgive one another, as the lord forgave you

Mathew 6:14-15
14 For if you forgive others when they sin against you, your heavenly father will also forgive you 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your father will not forgive your sins.

So which one is it? One says forgive as you are forgiven, the other says, you must forgive, or you will not be forgiven.

So do I just choose which one fits me best? I can, one is under the Law and is determined by my actions, one is under grace, which is determined by His actions. I choose Grace. I can't live in both.

You see Jesus was teaching the Jews under the Old Covenant, he was teaching the Law, which is the perfect tutor to lead us to Him,where you had to release your neighbour from their sin against you, before you could go to the altar to be forgiven.

Paul is teaching under the New Covenant, which states, you ARE already forgiven, so out of that abundance, forgive others.

They don't contradict each other, they explain each other. Old to New

So anyway back to my original point.

If we are truly and fully forgiven, and we embrace that forgiveness and walk in the newness of it, then asking for forgiveness is a rejection of what Christ accomplished on the cross.
It's like saying, " I believe in what you did, but...just in-case you left one behind, please forgive that one."

So we must look at 1 John 1:9 under the light of our full forgiveness and cleanliness and righteousness given to us by God.

Very well put Limey! Amen!
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
Part 1: I sure do try, doesn't always work out that way, God's grace, forgiveness and mercy and my grace, forgiveness and mercy cannot be compared.

Part2: Eventually I do. I think at this point I'm close to 90%
What you seem to be saying to part 1 and I am probably wrong is this...if I am...apologies upfront...

If I SIN against Father, his grace, mercy and forgiveness is enough...I do not need to acknowledge I hurt him...because I already have attained forgiveness....and he knows my heart....
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
So we are all grieving and suppressing the Holy Spirit. How does He cope with that?
The context suggest we should not quench or grieve him....enabling grace empowers us not to...and part of the enabling grace is relational forgiveness so we do not harden our hearts towards him...

Heb 3.7-11
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
stop your outright lies to defame character...not one of us said we devalue grace...stop it now..
All who say Christ cannot keep his promises and save eternally devalue grace....if the boot fits.......maybe check your own posts and get the log out of your own eye man...then come play CC police.....NOW for the record...I named no one specifically and with a broad brush hit ALL who state his grace is easy and greasy.....and my post is valid....You should spend more time in prayer and on your knees instead of stalking me...serious!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
What you seem to be saying to part 1 and I am probably wrong is this...if I am...apologies upfront...

If I SIN against Father, his grace, mercy and forgiveness is enough...I do not need to acknowledge I hurt him...because I already have attained forgiveness....and he knows my heart....
Too bad you cannot apologize more for all your railing......very Christ like indeed.....the apology that is.
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
28
What you seem to be saying to part 1 and I am probably wrong is this...if I am...apologies upfront...

If I SIN against Father, his grace, mercy and forgiveness is enough...I do not need to acknowledge I hurt him...because I already have attained forgiveness....and he knows my heart....
Do you believe that you can hurt God?

I actually do.

But do you believe that your apology is enough?

You think a simple sorry, forgive me, is sufficient?

Even a deep meaningful real apology, some gut felt tears, some real repentance, some real OMG?

I don't.

The ONLY thing that is sufficient to God is the spilled blood of Jesus and our recognition and acceptance of that sacrifice and the weight it carries. And the goal that it accomplished.

That is enough.