Does this need many corrections?

[Journeyman]

How is it they missed it when even the wise men and Herod knew when He was born?

He didn't do what they thought the Messiah should do. They misunderstood the scriptures.

 

[Journeyman]

So Jesus warning means nothing then? Remember, he is telling Isreal to run, In Fact OT prophets told them God would protect them, if they went where he told them to go. And rev 13 confirms, that the beast will go after her, But God will protect her.

We should not take these things seriously?

I think Jesus was warning people about false teachers who present themselves as God's ministers. I don't think that's meaningless. I take it seriously.

God's people are protected by Christ no matter where they in this world. I believe the 3 1/2 years where God's people are nourished in the wilderness (this world) is symbolic of being fed (taught) about the Messiah. Jesus's public ministry when he walked on earth as a man is thought to have been 3 (3 1/2?) years long.

 

[Journeyman]

I disagree. Most people are not honest with themselves. They deceive themselves because they want to. People are not really vastly different we all play our own deception games, whether it's to justify excuse or deny or divergent it's all the same thing. Sin is what it is, and it's common to all man. The only reason why we came to the truth is because inside of us something changed that caused us to stop deceiving ourselves. Don't engage in deceiving yourself today. You know you were going wrong back in the day when you were living the sin lifestyle, and you know what excuses you gave. Probably the same excuses I gave.

I understand people deceive themselves. Sin also blinds people to the truth.

 

[Journeyman]

FALSE. It happened at the same time (Genesis 19).

25 And he [God] overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. 26 But his [Lot's] wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

You're right, it did happen at the same time. Thanks for the correction, but that doesn't change my position, except it made me realize it's even more evil than I thought.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think Jesus was warning people about false teachers who present themselves as God's ministers. I don't think that's meaningless. I take it seriously.

God's people are protected by Christ no matter where they in this world. I believe the 3 1/2 years where God's people are nourished in the wilderness (this world) is symbolic of being fed (taught) about the Messiah. Jesus's public ministry when he walked on earth as a man is thought to have been 3 (3 1/2?) years long.

Well that would be a parable. Not a prophecy.

Prophesy has a purpose. Which is to warn people. And prove the Gad is the one true God. When we take prophesy and make a symbolic interpretation, we destroy the purpose of prophesy. Not to mention. Miss the true warning God is trying to give us.

 

[Journeyman]

Well that would be a parable. Not a prophecy.

Prophesy has a purpose. Which is to warn people. And prove the Gad is the one true God. When we take prophesy and make a symbolic interpretation, we destroy the purpose of prophesy. Not to mention. Miss the true warning God is trying to give us.

Jesus used parables to warn us of future judgment, so parables may also be prophecy.

I don't believe there will be a geographical location on earth (an island, a forest) where believers will be "safe" from the beast. I do believe the "place" where believers are kept from harm is in Christ, in our relationship with him.

I believe the woman who brought forth the man child is the faithful Jewish believers who proclaimed Jesus to the world. Jesus said of them,

there shall not an hair of your head perish. Lk.21:18

The woman's sanctuary is Christ, not a cave.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus used parables to warn us of future judgment, so parables may also be prophecy.

I don't believe there will be a geographical location on earth (an island, a forest) where believers will be "safe" from the beast. I do believe the "place" where believers are kept from harm is in Christ, in our relationship with him.

I believe the woman who brought forth the man child is the faithful Jewish believers who proclaimed Jesus to the world. Jesus said of them,

there shall not an hair of your head perish. Lk.21:18

The woman's sanctuary is Christ, not a cave.

When did Jesus use parables this way

The woman who brought forth the male child is the nation of Israel. Her offspring is the church.

God told us things for specific reasons. One is to prove he is god. If we spiritualise his prophesy, we can make him say whatever we want, and there is no proof he is God. In fact. He is no more God than nostrodomus.

 

[Journeyman]

When did Jesus use parables this way

his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them....the harvest is the end of the world Mt.13:36-37,39

The woman who brought forth the male child is the nation of Israel. Her offspring is the church.

The Jews who hated Jesus did not give birth to the church. The Jews who loved Jesus did.

God told us things for specific reasons. One is to prove he is god. If we spiritualise his prophesy, we can make him say whatever we want, and there is no proof he is God. In fact. He is no more God than nostrodomus.

No you can't make the Bible say whatever you want by understanding the spiritual message of it. When Jesus said,
If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham....If God were your Father, ye would love me Jn.8:39,42

I'm sure they felt God was there father whether they loved Jesus or not, or that Abraham was their father whether they lived by faith or not.

Btw my friend, what do you mean that Israel "gave birth" to the church? Are your parents Jewish? What hospital were you born in? You're not opposed to looking at your "birth" in a spiritual way, are you? Or are you just trying to make the Bible say what you want it to say? Jesus was Jewish. How are you related to Jesus?[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them....the harvest is the end of the world Mt.13:36-37,39

That was not a prophesy of end time events. Huge difference. That is a parable of a spiritual truth.

The Jews who hated Jesus did not give birth to the church. The Jews who loved Jesus did.

Abraham was the father of Isreal
God told abraham out of him (his seed) would be born the one who will be a blessing to all nations)
Jesus, as a descendent of Abraham, Issac and Jacob the son of David, was born of the woman (the nation of Israel)
The church was born By Jesus, WHo was born of the woman (Israel) who was given the promises.

Your trying to read into something that is not their, The nation is spoken of. Not just believing jews..

No you can't make the Bible say whatever you want by understanding the spiritual message of it. When Jesus said,
If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham....If God were your Father, ye would love me Jn.8:39,42

Thats not prophecy, so has no bearing on our discussion.

I'm sure they felt God was there father whether they loved Jesus or not, or that Abraham was their father whether they lived by faith or not.

Btw my friend, what do you mean that Israel "gave birth" to the church? Are your parents Jewish? What hospital were you born in? You're not opposed to looking at your "birth" in a spiritual way, are you? Or are you just trying to make the Bible say what you want it to say? Jesus was Jewish. How are you related to Jesus?

Was Jesus a gentile? Or was he from israel?

And yes, Prophesy taken symbolically can affect scripture. Imagine if Jesus only spiritually fulfilled OT prophesy, He never was a man, Never was born, Never died, And never become the suffering servant, but was just a spiritual blessing we all should heed.

We would all still be dead in our sin.

 

[Journeyman]

That was not a prophesy of end time events. Huge difference. That is a parable of a spiritual truth.

It's both. The "harvest" being the "end of the world" where "angels separate the wicked from the just" is spiritual and an end time event.

[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, )]Abraham was the father of Isreal[/COLOR]
God told abraham out of him (his seed) would be born the one who will be a blessing to all nations)
Jesus, as a descendent of Abraham, Issac and Jacob the son of David, was born of the woman (the nation of Israel)The church was born By Jesus, WHo was born of the woman (Israel) who was given the promises.
Your trying to read into something that is not their, The nation is spoken of. Not just believing jews..

But all nations and all Jews aren't going to be saved.

Thats not prophecy, so has no bearing on our discussion.

Jesus was defining the people of God, which affects prophecy. Paul did the same thing when he said,

They which are the children of the flesh (that is, people born Jewish, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise that is, believers are counted for the seed. Rom.9:8

Was Jesus a gentile? Or was he from israel?

And yes, Prophesy taken symbolically can affect scripture. Imagine if Jesus only spiritually fulfilled OT prophesy, He never was a man, Never was born, Never died, And never become the suffering servant, but was just a spiritual blessing we all should heed.
We would all still be dead in our sin.

Imagine if Jews back in the 1st century understood the Messiah wasn't coming to destroy the Romans, or Jews today understood the Messiah didn't come to destroy terrorists. He cane to save sinners.

Christianity today has taken the scriptures and reverted them back to a Pharisee interpretation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's both. The "harvest" being the "end of the world" where "angels separate the wicked from the just" is spiritual and an end time event.

No it is not. A prophesy states these particualr events will take place. So that when they do. All who know the prophesy can look to God and declair who can say these things but God

A parable uses symbolic language to explain a spiritual truth.

But all nations and all Jews aren't going to be saved.

Rom 11. “And so all Israel will be saved”

And I showed you who physical israel was. And that is scripture not my view

Jesus was defining the people of God, which affects prophecy. Paul did the same thing when he said,

They which are the children of the flesh (that is, people born Jewish, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise that is, believers are counted for the seed. Rom.9:8

Romans 9:8 has nothing to do with prophecy man,

Imagine if Jews back in the 1st century understood the Messiah wasn't coming to destroy the Romans, or Jews today understood the Messiah didn't come to destroy terrorists. He cane to save sinners.

Christianity today has taken the scriptures and reverted them back to a Pharisee interpretation.

Imagine the people in the world who see those events taking place. Looking to God, because who but God can predict events thousands of years in the past and those eventws come true, Imagine how many jews and gentiles will come to christ, because they interpreted prophecy correctly. And not symbolically. So when these things occure, they see them for what they are.

Once again, God uses prophecy for one purpose. To point people to himself when they see the things happen. In fact, in the OT is a warning, if a prophet says something which DOES NOT COME TO PASS. That prophet is not from God.


Deuteronomy 18:22
when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Is 44:
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
7 And who can proclaim as I do?
Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me,
Since I appointed the ancient people.
And the things that are coming and shall come,
Let them show these to them.
8 Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.’ ”

 

[Journeyman]

No it is not. A prophesy states these particualr events will take place. So that when they do. All who know the prophesy can look to God and declair who can say these things but God

That's true, but people also read Bible prophecies and look for reasons to explain them away. Regardless, angels dividing the saved from the unsaved is a future event told in a parable.

A parable uses symbolic language to explain a spiritual truth.

Jesus foretold his death in MK.8, a parable.

Rom 11. “And so all Israel will be saved”

And I showed you who physical israel was. And that is scripture not my view

Read the whole text. The olive tree is Israel, which consists of Jews and gentiles. When all the gentiles are in, "all Israel" is saved. Paul isn't saying blind Jews are saved. He's saying believing Jews and gentiles are Israel.

Romans 9:8 has nothing to do with prophecy man,

I believe it's related to Eze.47:22-23

Imagine the people in the world who see those events taking place. Looking to God, because who but God can predict events thousands of years in the past and those eventws come true, Imagine how many jews and gentiles will come to christ, because they interpreted prophecy correctly. And not symbolically. So when these things occure, they see them for what they are.

The Messiah came to destroy mankind's enemies, not the Jews enemies.

Once again, God uses prophecy for one purpose. To point people to himself when they see the things happen. In fact, in the OT is a warning, if a prophet says something which DOES NOT COME TO PASS. That prophet is not from God.


Deuteronomy 18:22
when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Is 44:
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
7 And who can proclaim as I do?
Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me,
Since I appointed the ancient people.
And the things that are coming and shall come,
Let them show these to them.
8 Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.’ ”

And many people know about Jesus and don't respond.