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Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#401
May 23, 2016
4,319
1,447
113
#401
maxwel said:
Chester, one more thing:

The Bible does discuss this issue you raise, about witnessing to people with love.

But the Bible keeps the two issues distinct.
The Bible does not make it complicated, and it does not swerve into any equivocation or confusion.

The Bible keeps these 2 issues separate, distinct, and simple... it keeps them parallel, but still distinct.. it does not melt them into a single concept.

The Bible says to speak the truth, and it says to do that in love.
God keeps these issue separate, distinct, and simple.

These are separate ideas, and God keeps them separated.

You'll find these same separations and distinctions throughout scripture.

To say a true thing is to say a true thing.
To say it well, or say it lovingly, is always a critical but DISTINCT matter.

..
Going one step further -> Love and Truth:

1. You CANNOT speak in "love" without also speaking truth... because to lie intrinsically means to fail at the "loving"
You could make an argument about little white lies, like "No honey, you look fine with purple hair."
But as a general rule, to be loving requires, inherently, the inclusion of truth.
2. You CAN however speak truth without speaking in "love", because true propositions are not contingent on love for their existence.
A true proposition is still true even if you don't speak it all, so it doesn't depend on your being "loving", it doesn't depend on you at all. A true statement doesn't depend on you being loving... it doesn't depend on you at all. A true statement is still true even if you disappear.
3. Please keep in mind, God always refers to these two things as separate and distinct.
They are both important, and they usually run parallel, but they are separate and distinct.
4. If God views them as separate and distinct, then so should we.

.
Click to expand...
LOL! I thought you wanted to keep things simple . . . You may have your viewpoint and I respect it; but I am still going to say that speaking facts without love is not bringing Jesus to people.
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#402
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,609
113
#402
Chester said:
LOL! I thought you wanted to keep things simple . . . You may have your viewpoint and I respect it; but I am still going to say that speaking facts without love is not bringing Jesus to people.
Click to expand...
Chester,
I agree.

I agree that speaking facts without love is "not bringing jesus to people."
I agree.

I never disagreed with your conclusion, that we should be loving, and that if we are not loving then we aren't really being a witness for Jesus.
I never disagreed with that.
I only disagreed with the way you arrived at your conclusion, and with the way you explained it.

As Christians engage in polite debate, it's not unreasonable to discuss WHY we say things, or HOW we say things.
Even if we're both doing the SAME THINGS, it's reasonable to discuss WHY we do it, and HOW we talk about it.
I think it's biblical to have those kinds of discussions, as long as they are polite.
I hope I was polite.

I considered all of this a discussion between brothers, brothers with the same goals.

God Bless.
.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#403
May 23, 2016
4,319
1,447
113
#403
maxwel said:
Chester,
I agree.

I agree that speaking facts without love is "not bringing jesus to people."
I agree.

I never disagreed with your conclusion, that we should be loving, and that if we are not loving then we aren't really being a witness for Jesus.
I never disagreed with that.
I only disagreed with the way you arrived at your conclusion, and with the way you explained it.

As Christians engage in polite debate, it's not unreasonable to discuss WHY we say things, or HOW we say things.
Even if we're both doing the SAME THINGS, it's reasonable to discuss WHY we do it, and HOW we talk about it.
I think it's biblical to have those kinds of discussions, as long as they are polite.
I hope I was polite.

I considered all of this a discussion between brothers, brothers with the same goals.

God Bless.
.
Click to expand...
Hey, it is all good, I never thought you did not agree with my conclusion - but it seemed I touched on something that made you react when I used the word "truth" as conveying Jesus rather than as meaning only propositional truth.

No doubt the Greek word aleithia is used in both of these ways in the New Testament; but I maintain that the person of Jesus (and not propositions) is the foundation of aleithia.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#404
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#404
Chester said:
LOL! I thought you wanted to keep things simple . . . You may have your viewpoint and I respect it; but I am still going to say that speaking facts without love is not bringing Jesus to people.
Click to expand...
Isn’t it God Himself that draws? One can be hurt by the people of a church, but that won’t negate the power of His drawing. At least that’s what I experienced, so it must be truth. 😇
 
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