Don't Fear Sin / God Has Put Away ALL Sin Forever

[roaringkitten]

How can a depraved man come to Christ??? The Word says that the Holy Spirit came to CONVICT the world of sin, judgment, and righteousness(John 16:8)....The reason WHY many choose to NOT turn to Christ is because their evil deeds will be exposed(John 3:20)...Willful disobedience, pride of life, huge stumbling blocks to man......

 

[MahogonySnail]

If as a believer, I am backslidden and living in sin and continue to rebel, then God has the option to scourge me. If I still rebel, then my sin can lead unto physical death. God taking the believer home ahead of time.

Here is the crux of the issue. You claim that sin only results in physical death with no spiritual consequences for the believer.. (or even the unbeliever?)...but God will take them home early. This doesn't sound like much of a chastisement/punishment to me, but that God is doing the sinner a favour by bringing them to heaven early.

Now that is a dangerous doctrine because it may encourage backsliders to remain in their sin if they don't believe they will suffer God's judgement after death but only in their physical life.

I know your view is wrong because of what scripture says and warns....
Luk 12:45 But if that servant says in his heart, My lord delays his coming, and shall begin to beat the male servants and women servants, and to eat and drink and to be drunk,
Luk 12:46 the lord of that servant will come in a day when he does not expect, and at an hour when he does not know. And he will cut him apart, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Clearly, Luke 12:45-46 is speaking about lawless believers, who suffer the same fate as the unbelievers. And it doesn't distinguish between punishments on this life or punishments in the afterlife.
I also know your view is wrong because of testimonies I have heard or read of believers who have died and gone to heaven but God has warned them that unless they repent of their sin they have to go to hell, one was even a pastor.

I think that traditional christian belief would say that the backslider would have some form of punishment in the afterlife.. either a) the backslider is in danger of loss of eternal life, and suffer the same fate as the unbeliever, or b) loss of some rewards in heaven, whatever those rewards might be, or c) a period of punishment (eg 40 lashes etc).

 

[BLC]

In (2Sam 12) the story of what happened to David because of his sin with Bathsheba and her husband Uriah illustrates, for our learning, something about David's heart. The child that was born unto Bathsheba became sick and David fasted, prayed and would not bathe nor talk with anyone. This went on for seven days until the child died. Immediately, David got up, washed and anointed himself, changed his clothes and went to the house of the LORD to worship. Then he went to his own house, he ate with the servants and was asked why he had done this. He replied that while the child was alive maybe the LORD would be gracious to him that the child may live. Then he comforted Bathsheba, went in unto her to lay with her and she bore a son, Solomon.


David did not pray and fast before God because of guilt, he did it because he knew (he had the knowledge) that God was merciful, even though the prophet Nathan told him that the child would die. After the child died he was not stricken with grief. After cleaning himself and having something to eat he comforted his wife and layed with her. I can just hear some people in their heart saying, 'How could he have acted this way with Bathsheba, the women of a military man that David had killed and took for his wife and the adulterous women of his illegitimate child'? Trouble did come upon the house of David because of his sin, but God had something to say about David in the NT.


First in Acts 13:22 the Holy Spirit inspired Luke to mention that David had a heart after God and fulfilled all of God's will (any italics added was not in the original text). In (v/34) David had the sure mercies of God, which are also promised to us (Acts 13:26). In (v/36) David served his generation by the will of God. There is no mention of David's sin in the NT because it was put away in (2Sam 12:13). David even describing this in (Rom 4:6-8), 'Blessed is the man that God imputes righteousness without works, whose iniquities are forgiven and sins are covered. Blessed is the man whom the LORD will not impute sin (Psalm 32:1,2,5). Jesus Christ came and was born through the lineage and offspring of David (Rom 1:3, 2Tim 2:8, Rev 5:5, 22:16). The genealogy for this in in (Mt 1:1-16). David had a heart after God and God looks upon the heart and not on the outward appearance (2Sam 16:7, 2Cor 10:7). When we deal with sin in our own life or someone else's, don't forget these scriptures, because they reveal the heart and nature of God. Don't forget these either (Psalm 103:12, Isaiah 43:25, Heb 8:12, 17).

 

[BLC]

Romans 14:8-10 'For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ'. The word for seat is bema, a platformed place that we shall all stand before Jesus Christ, who will judge us according to our works, which will be tried as by fire (1Cor 3:11-15).

There will be no sins brought up or mentioned at this judgment seat of Christ for the believer. The believer's sin has already been judged and put away through the death of Christ on the cross. The loss that the believer will face is associated with works that were tried by fire and burnt up as wood, hay and stubble, but he himself will be saved as by fire. This is a judgment seat of the believer's works and for those whose works are tried by fire and remain as gold, silver or precious stone, they will be rewarded. There is lots more that goes with this, including degrees of glorification, inwardly and outwardly when the believer puts on their new glorified bodies (1Cor 15:40-54, 2Thes 1:10-12, Rom 8:17,30, Gal 1:24). There is one OT verse that speaks to this in (Daniel 12:3), 'And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever', put this verse with (1Cor 15:41).

 

[christiancanadian]

The sacrifice of Christ on the cross is sufficient for all mankind, but only efficient for those who believe.

Yes, for those who BELIEVE and trust Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. The Bible is perfectly clear on this. Not everyone is God's Child. Jesus even said himself that his sheep know his voice.

Your correct Baptistrw. And what BLC is stating is blatent FALSE TEACHING.

 

[BLC]

christiancanadian,

What are you going to do with theses verses that are in your Bible? Are you sure you want to accusing me of blatant false teaching. Let others on this sight, that love God and have the Holy Spirit, speak to these things.

John 15:16 'Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you'.

John 15:5 'I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing'.

John 6:44 'No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day'.

1John 2:1 'And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for (the sins of) the whole world'.

Rom 3:10-12 'As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one'.

Rom 5:12 'Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned'. (that is all inclusive)

Through Christ, we, who were dead in trespasses and sins have been quickened (Eph 2:5, Col 2:11), and made alive together with Christ. The sinner who believes upon Christ has passed from death unto life (John 5:24, 1John 3:14). The unbeliever who has trusted Christ, he has been forgiven and cleansed of all sin experientially. Positionally, all his sins were put away by the sacrifice of Christ, who is the propitiation for not only our sins but for the whole world. The unbeliever has had his sins put away by the sacrifice of Christ, but has not been forgiven or cleansed from sin until he believes. Therefore the unbeliever is still dead in his trespasses and sins as we were before we were saved. If the unbeliever dies, they will die in their trespasses and sins that have not been cleansed. The message of the glorious gospel, that we give the whole worldr, is that Christ paid for all their sins and put them away, so that they can call upon the name of the Lord for salvation.

Some believe that Christ only paid for the sins of the believer, or for those that would believe. They believe that they were chosen and predestinated in Him before the foundation of the world to salvation and others were excluded. Therefore they have no urgency and burning in their heart for the lost, because they believe that God will save all those that have been appointed to salvation. That is just being careless and negligent with the scriptures.

Isaiah 45:17-22 'But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of
the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Re: Don't Fear Sin / God Has Put Away ALL Sin Forever;

why don't you go down to hell and tell the certain rich man that. I am sure He will be glad to hear that.




Lu 16:19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:Lu 16:20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,Lu 16:21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.Lu 16:22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;Lu 16:23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.Lu 16:24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.Lu 16:25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.Lu 16:26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.Lu 16:27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:Lu 16:28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.Lu 16:29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.Lu 16:30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.Lu 16:31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[BLC]

Thaddaeus,


Many believers become fearful that they will fall back into sin because they are weak and the strength of sin, that lives in the members of their body (Rom 7:23), has had dominion over their flesh many times in the past. In (Rom 7:5) 'When we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death'. This is important to understand because Paul, as a converted believer, who understood the purpose of the law, is having a problem with sin in his own life.


Rom 7:23,24 'But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death'? Can the Apostle Paul be having a problem with sin? Not just his sin nature but even when he did good, evil was present with him (v/21). Who is going to deliver him from this dilemma? Look at his dilemma in (Rom 7:18-20) 'For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me'.
Does he start to freak out and get all upset? Does he get nervous and worried about what people might think? Does he start confessing and repenting of all that sin and evil that is present with him? Does he fear that God could come back before he has a chance to repent? NO! He confesses with his mouth the written word, 'NO CONDEMNATION' (Rom 8:1)! And the rest of (Rom 8) becomes his confession of truth that God has given him in the inward man. Not one time did he repent of any of those things. In (v/20) Paul actually says that the things he did that he shouldn't do, was not him that did it, but sin that dwelleth in him. Did Paul actually blame the sin nature in him and not himself? That may not sound right to most legalistic professing Christians, but Paul said exactly that. Paul's confession was according to the law of the Spirit of life, that made him free from the law of sin and death (Rom 8:2).
Here is a few verses to consider. (Job 3:25, 2Tim 1:7, Rom 8:15)

 

[BLC]

Fearing has a strange way of bringing to past what we fearor are afraid of. Read (Job 3:25); 'For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me'. Fearing sin leads to sin because of the flesh. This happens because many pulpits are preaching against sin and leave the listener in fear of failing instead of loving God. The strength of sin is in the law (1Cor 15:56). What that means is that we have the law of sin and death within our body (Rom 7:23). When we use the written law to preach against sin, without building on the foundation of the new birth that was made possible through Christ and the one new man that we have in Christ (Eph 2:15), the flesh will react against the law that is preached and the law of sin will be strengthened and served according to the flesh (Rom 7:25). The only way we can forsake sin is by building ourselves up in the love of God that came through Christ when He condemned sin in His flesh. We need to see that all our sin was nailed to the cross (Col 2:14). We need to know that we are not our sin. Paul said that when he sinned that it was, 'not I, but sin that dwelleth in me '(Rom 7:17). We are a new creature in Christ (2Cor 5:17, Gal 6:15), old things are passed away and all things have become new when we believe. God does not want that to be just positionally true but He wants it to be worked into us experientially because of the fellowship that He desires to have with us. If our sin is constantly being pointed out by others, that will only strengthen sin because pointing it out has no power to keep us from it. We are kept by the power of God (1Pt 1:5) and that power is the grace of God ministered to us through the Holy Spirit. We need to built up ourselves, and others, in the inner man (Eph 3:16), not after the flesh but after Christ (2Cor 5:16). We need to determine, as Paul did, to see one another according to Christ and Him crucified and not according to the flesh (2Cor 5:16). We should deal with sin in our own life before God and let others do the same. Judging believers, or getting them to fear sin, according to the flesh or the sins of the flesh does nothing to build them in Christ. In (John 12) there is no sin mentioned in the context of this chapter. Read (verses 46-48);

'I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day'.

Jesus Christ came not to judge the world but He did come to be judged for the world and to put away the sins of the world. Was John the Baptist wrong in his declaration, 'Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world'. Not just the sins of those who believe but the sins of the world. Should any of us forget that we were in darkness and in unbelief when God revealed to us the light of His glorious gospel? Do we forget what we are taught in (Eph 2:1-8);

'And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved), and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God'.

The cross dealt with the sin issue and we have received that cross through Jesus Christ death, burial and resurrection. Now we take up that cross to follow Christ and preach that cross as the salvation of God. The good news is the glorious truth that Jesus Christ is the sacrificial Lamb, who took away the sins of the world. And when a sinner, that is in the world, hears and believes in their heart this gospel that we preach, that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, they have believed unto righteousness and are saved by grace through faith forever (Rom 10:10). This is not heresy, it is the gospel of Jesus Christ the Son of God who came to put away sin. If anyone preaches or teaches that men will go to hell because of their sin, that is blaspheming the the love of the Father who sent His Son and it is blaspheming the work of the cross, that His Son 'finished', that all men might believe (John 19:30).

There is nothing wrong with preaching against sin and convicting the sinner of his sin, but only in the context of what Christ did to sin because of the great love that God the Father has for all sinners. You can't preach against sin without giving God's provision for it. That provision is grace and love that will lead the sinner to turn from themselves unto God for salvation and deliverance from sin. When the children of Israel had rebelled and had sinned against the LORD in the wilderness, God sent fiery serpents to bite them, many got infected with the poisonous venom and died. The people, being sick, turned to Moses and confessed they had sinned by going against the word of the LORD. God then told Moses to make a fiery serpent out of brass, put it upon a pole and lift it up. Anyone that looked upon it who had been biten would live. The fiery serpent represented their sin before God. Brass represents judgment. The brasen serpent represented Christ taking on our sin and being judged. The pole is the cross that Christ died upon. What this speaks of is that we have been smitten with the fiery sting of sin before a Holy God. But God raised up His Son on the cross to be judged for our sin and all we have to do is look upon Him, who was judged, and we will live.