Easy Believism and Lordship Salvation (why both are false Gospels)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
239
63
#1
First off, Easy Believism. I used to be deceived by this false Gospel, which says all you have to do is believe, a godly sorrow as described in 2 Corinthians 7:10 is not required. That's of course not what the Bible says. We indeed do not have to change our life to get saved, but if we are saved we will start to change (Philippians 1:6, 1 Peter 2:2). You cannot deny that.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

I used to follow David J. Stewart and his jesus-is-savior.com Website. However, he is clearly confused. How can it be that somebody acknowledges his sinnership but is not willing to turn from his sins? The Greek word for "repentance" is "metanoia", which indeed means "a change of mind", however, that's not all it means, it also leads to a change of actions.

And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed. 2 Corinthians 12:21

If we are saved, we will feel grieved if we backslide. See King David. You cannot be a Christian and feel good in sin. There are many LGBT's who claim to be Christians. Of course they are being dishonest.

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Hebrews 12:8

We all fall short, but at least we get back up from time to time.

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. Proverbs 24:16

the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 (interlinear, that is one of the few things the KJV messed up)

People like Charles Stanley believe a Christian would become an apostate, that does not fit into what scripture says.

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Luke 8:15

If you are saved, you will have new desires, simple as that. We are to examine ourselves and make our calling and election sure.

On the other hand we have Lordship Salvation, which says you must do good works to maintain or proof our salvation. There is no doubt that the Holy Spirit produces fruit in us, and that fruit is repentance and good works, however, that does not mean our salvation was bound on them. People like John MacArthur claim to teach eternal security, however, they also say, you must go through a longer period of time to proof your salvation by doing good works, so if somebody tells him that he just got saved and knows it because he has the Holy Spirit in him convicting him of his sins, then Pastor MacArthur says, no, you first must examine yourself for two, three years and see how successfull you are, becoming a Christian is not easy. That of course is false, salvation is easy. A child can already accept Christ if he has conviction and godly sorrow over his sins. We are not changing ourselves, the Holy Spirit changes us! We can know that we received salvation.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13

Ray Comfort says you must successfully turn from your sins to get saved, godly sorrow and being willing to turn from them was not enough. That of course is faith plus works. We are depraved (Ephesians 2:1-4) and nee the Holy Spirit to clean up our lives.

Paul Washer has complained of the Gospel being turned into a flush shot. Well...

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:41

Did the Apostle Peter turn the Gospel into a flu shot? I think not. Repentance is pretty easy to understand, it is a change of mind and heart which results into a change of actions. Pretty simple.

Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20:26


God bless you all
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,175
1,334
113
#2
I agree that "lordship salvation" as you define it is not biblical. Jesus is indeed Lord and is the Lord of the Christian, but that does not mean that we stay saved by doing good works.

I also agree that "easy believism" is not biblical. We are indeed saved by believing, but true believing will come from the heart and will bring about change! The idea that easy belief at a point in time changes one's eternal status makes mockery of God's care for the Christian's heart.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,717
113
#3
First off, Easy Believism. I used to be deceived by this false Gospel, which says all you have to do is believe, a godly sorrow as described in 2 Corinthians 7:10 is not required. That's of course not what the Bible says. We indeed do not have to change our life to get saved, but if we are saved we will start to change (Philippians 1:6, 1 Peter 2:2). You cannot deny that.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

I used to follow David J. Stewart and his jesus-is-savior.com Website. However, he is clearly confused. How can it be that somebody acknowledges his sinnership but is not willing to turn from his sins? The Greek word for "repentance" is "metanoia", which indeed means "a change of mind", however, that's not all it means, it also leads to a change of actions.

And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed. 2 Corinthians 12:21

If we are saved, we will feel grieved if we backslide. See King David. You cannot be a Christian and feel good in sin. There are many LGBT's who claim to be Christians. Of course they are being dishonest.

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Hebrews 12:8

We all fall short, but at least we get back up from time to time.

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. Proverbs 24:16

the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 (interlinear, that is one of the few things the KJV messed up)

People like Charles Stanley believe a Christian would become an apostate, that does not fit into what scripture says.

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Luke 8:15

If you are saved, you will have new desires, simple as that. We are to examine ourselves and make our calling and election sure.

On the other hand we have Lordship Salvation, which says you must do good works to maintain or proof our salvation. There is no doubt that the Holy Spirit produces fruit in us, and that fruit is repentance and good works, however, that does not mean our salvation was bound on them. People like John MacArthur claim to teach eternal security, however, they also say, you must go through a longer period of time to proof your salvation by doing good works, so if somebody tells him that he just got saved and knows it because he has the Holy Spirit in him convicting him of his sins, then Pastor MacArthur says, no, you first must examine yourself for two, three years and see how successfull you are, becoming a Christian is not easy. That of course is false, salvation is easy. A child can already accept Christ if he has conviction and godly sorrow over his sins. We are not changing ourselves, the Holy Spirit changes us! We can know that we received salvation.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13

Ray Comfort says you must successfully turn from your sins to get saved, godly sorrow and being willing to turn from them was not enough. That of course is faith plus works. We are depraved (Ephesians 2:1-4) and nee the Holy Spirit to clean up our lives.

Paul Washer has complained of the Gospel being turned into a flush shot. Well...

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:41

Did the Apostle Peter turn the Gospel into a flu shot? I think not. Repentance is pretty easy to understand, it is a change of mind and heart which results into a change of actions. Pretty simple.

Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20:26


God bless you all
You've misrepresented so-called "lordship salvation."
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
19,156
9,950
113
#4
On the other hand we have Lordship Salvation, which says you must do good works to maintain or proof our salvation.
This is a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation. Here is the meaning of Lordship salvation:

The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior.

https://www.gotquestions.org/lordship-salvation.html

There is nothing unbiblical about this, and is illustrated by the first words of the converted Saul (who became Paul the apostle): And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? (Acts 9:6)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#5
First off, Easy Believism. I used to be deceived by this false Gospel, which says all you have to do is believe, a godly sorrow as described in 2 Corinthians 7:10 is not required. That's of course not what the Bible says. We indeed do not have to change our life to get saved, but if we are saved we will start to change (Philippians 1:6, 1 Peter 2:2). You cannot deny that.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

I used to follow David J. Stewart and his jesus-is-savior.com Website. However, he is clearly confused. How can it be that somebody acknowledges his sinnership but is not willing to turn from his sins? The Greek word for "repentance" is "metanoia", which indeed means "a change of mind", however, that's not all it means, it also leads to a change of actions.

And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed. 2 Corinthians 12:21

If we are saved, we will feel grieved if we backslide. See King David. You cannot be a Christian and feel good in sin. There are many LGBT's who claim to be Christians. Of course they are being dishonest.

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Hebrews 12:8

We all fall short, but at least we get back up from time to time.

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. Proverbs 24:16

the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 (interlinear, that is one of the few things the KJV messed up)

People like Charles Stanley believe a Christian would become an apostate, that does not fit into what scripture says.

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Luke 8:15

If you are saved, you will have new desires, simple as that. We are to examine ourselves and make our calling and election sure.

On the other hand we have Lordship Salvation, which says you must do good works to maintain or proof our salvation. There is no doubt that the Holy Spirit produces fruit in us, and that fruit is repentance and good works, however, that does not mean our salvation was bound on them. People like John MacArthur claim to teach eternal security, however, they also say, you must go through a longer period of time to proof your salvation by doing good works, so if somebody tells him that he just got saved and knows it because he has the Holy Spirit in him convicting him of his sins, then Pastor MacArthur says, no, you first must examine yourself for two, three years and see how successfull you are, becoming a Christian is not easy. That of course is false, salvation is easy. A child can already accept Christ if he has conviction and godly sorrow over his sins. We are not changing ourselves, the Holy Spirit changes us! We can know that we received salvation.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13

Ray Comfort says you must successfully turn from your sins to get saved, godly sorrow and being willing to turn from them was not enough. That of course is faith plus works. We are depraved (Ephesians 2:1-4) and nee the Holy Spirit to clean up our lives.

Paul Washer has complained of the Gospel being turned into a flush shot. Well...

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:41

Did the Apostle Peter turn the Gospel into a flu shot? I think not. Repentance is pretty easy to understand, it is a change of mind and heart which results into a change of actions. Pretty simple.

Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20:26


God bless you all

however, that's not all it means, it also leads to a change of actions.
Can you provide support for this with regards to the meaning of the word "metanoia" also involving action, if you look at the root of this word linguistically in the Greek, the action is not physical?

You have somewhat poorly defined "Lordship Salvation" and as there are multiple understanding of this dogma depending on you are reading.

As well "easy believism" is a false construct used by Lordship Salvation against those who maintain a pure simple Gospel of salvation by faith alone.

We do not turn from sin to be saved, we believe in Jesus as Saviour to be saved, turning from sin is a product of salvation not a requirement for salvation.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,983
3,207
113
#6
I used to follow David J. Stewart and his jesus-is-savior.com Website. However, he is clearly confused. How can it be that somebody acknowledges his sinnership but is not willing to turn from his sins? The Greek word for "repentance" is "metanoia", which indeed means "a change of mind", however, that's not all it means, it also leads to a change of actions.
So have you had a change in your actions LW97 ? Have you turned from your sins and now you are a sinless human being?

Well since you declare that believing and trusting in the Atonement is not enough and that we must change our actions you must declare that it is only by achieving a sinless state of being that people attain entry into eternal life with God...

So have you attained a sinless state of being LW97 ??? If not.. By you very own preaching standards you are not saved and are heading to the eternal lake of fire... Aren't you?
 

lastofall

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2014
609
38
28
#7
You do err not knowing the scripture, but are deceived into believing a lie.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,175
1,334
113
#8
This is a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation. Here is the meaning of Lordship salvation:

The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior.

https://www.gotquestions.org/lordship-salvation.html

There is nothing unbiblical about this, and is illustrated by the first words of the converted Saul (who became Paul the apostle): And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? (Acts 9:6)
I am in agreement with you, Nehemiah6, that "submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. "

But "Lordship salvation" in my area of the country means pretty much what LW97 said.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
22,981
11,463
113
56
#9
I agree that "lordship salvation" as you define it is not biblical. Jesus is indeed Lord and is the Lord of the Christian, but that does not mean that we stay saved by doing good works.

I also agree that "easy believism" is not biblical. We are indeed saved by believing, but true believing will come from the heart and will bring about change! The idea that easy belief at a point in time changes one's eternal status makes mockery of God's care for the Christian's heart.
How do most people define "easy believism?" Is it mostly works-salvationists who criticize easy believism? Do they see "hard believism" as the solution? :unsure:
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#10
So have you had a change in your actions LW97 ? Have you turned from your sins and now you are a sinless human being?

Well since you declare that believing and trusting in the Atonement is not enough and that we must change our actions you must declare that it is only by achieving a sinless state of being that people attain entry into eternal life with God...

So have you attained a sinless state of being LW97 ??? If not.. By you very own preaching standards you are not saved and are heading to the eternal lake of fire... Aren't you?

you know, he said absolutely nothing whatsoever about being sinless

I find that when someone jumps to this conclusion they may be a struggle with some particular sin, they feel judged and then jump on someone who mentions turning away from your sin..as scripture actually says a converted person will do and they have the Holy Spirit to enable them to turn from sin

I have no idea if that applies to you, but it is an observation.

your post is just screaming anger and judgement. you make the op sound like he is personally directing what he said to you

if the shoe fits, wear it, but maybe don't go postal and claim he said things he never said or intended

why is that?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#11
First off, Easy Believism. I used to be deceived by this false Gospel, which says all you have to do is believe, a godly sorrow as described in 2 Corinthians 7:10 is not required. That's of course not what the Bible says. We indeed do not have to change our life to get saved, but if we are saved we will start to change (Philippians 1:6, 1 Peter 2:2). You cannot deny that.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

I used to follow David J. Stewart and his jesus-is-savior.com Website. However, he is clearly confused. How can it be that somebody acknowledges his sinnership but is not willing to turn from his sins? The Greek word for "repentance" is "metanoia", which indeed means "a change of mind", however, that's not all it means, it also leads to a change of actions.

And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed. 2 Corinthians 12:21

If we are saved, we will feel grieved if we backslide. See King David. You cannot be a Christian and feel good in sin. There are many LGBT's who claim to be Christians. Of course they are being dishonest.

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Hebrews 12:8

We all fall short, but at least we get back up from time to time.

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. Proverbs 24:16

the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 (interlinear, that is one of the few things the KJV messed up)

People like Charles Stanley believe a Christian would become an apostate, that does not fit into what scripture says.

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Luke 8:15

If you are saved, you will have new desires, simple as that. We are to examine ourselves and make our calling and election sure.

On the other hand we have Lordship Salvation, which says you must do good works to maintain or proof our salvation. There is no doubt that the Holy Spirit produces fruit in us, and that fruit is repentance and good works, however, that does not mean our salvation was bound on them. People like John MacArthur claim to teach eternal security, however, they also say, you must go through a longer period of time to proof your salvation by doing good works, so if somebody tells him that he just got saved and knows it because he has the Holy Spirit in him convicting him of his sins, then Pastor MacArthur says, no, you first must examine yourself for two, three years and see how successfull you are, becoming a Christian is not easy. That of course is false, salvation is easy. A child can already accept Christ if he has conviction and godly sorrow over his sins. We are not changing ourselves, the Holy Spirit changes us! We can know that we received salvation.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13

Ray Comfort says you must successfully turn from your sins to get saved, godly sorrow and being willing to turn from them was not enough. That of course is faith plus works. We are depraved (Ephesians 2:1-4) and nee the Holy Spirit to clean up our lives.

Paul Washer has complained of the Gospel being turned into a flush shot. Well...

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:41

Did the Apostle Peter turn the Gospel into a flu shot? I think not. Repentance is pretty easy to understand, it is a change of mind and heart which results into a change of actions. Pretty simple.

Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20:26


God bless you all
I find you represented a pretty balanced understanding

there will be resistance to what you actually said as too many interpret what someone says rather than just take it the way it was meant

asking questions is always better than accusing and judging

just my 2.5 cents
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
688
113
#12
How do most people define "easy believism?" Is it mostly works-salvationists who criticize easy believism? Do they see "hard believism" as the solution? :unsure:
An obedient faith is the solution. "Easy believism" is faith/belief without obedience to the spirit.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
688
113
#13
Can you provide support for this with regards to the meaning of the word "metanoia" also involving action, if you look at the root of this word linguistically in the Greek, the action is not physical?
There's not an exact Greek equivalent for the Hebrew word for repentance. The word repented in Jonah 3:10 is translated metanoia in the LXX, but in Hebrew it obviously has a deeper meaning than just changing the mind.

And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. Jonah 3:10

Repent
H5162 נָחַם nacham (naw-kham') v.
1. (properly) to sigh, i.e. breathe strongly
2. (by implication) to be sorry
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
688
113
#14
There's not an exact Greek equivalent for the Hebrew word for repentance. The word repented in Jonah 3:10 is translated metanoia in the LXX, but in Hebrew it obviously has a deeper meaning than just changing the mind.

And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. Jonah 3:10

Repent
H5162 נָחַם nacham (naw-kham') v.
1. (properly) to sigh, i.e. breathe strongly
2. (by implication) to be sorry
Here's another example where Hebrew word for repent is translated metanoia in the LXX. Obviously a deeper meaning than just "change the mind".

I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle. Jeremiah 8:6

Repent
H5162 נָחַם nacham (naw-kham') v.
1. (properly) to sigh, i.e. breathe strongly
2. (by implication) to be sorry
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
22,981
11,463
113
56
#15
An obedient faith is the solution. "Easy believism" is faith/belief without obedience to the spirit.
Authentic faith results in obedience. Faith without works is dead, yet we are still saved through faith, not works.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
Authentic faith results in obedience. Faith without works is dead, yet we are still saved through faith, not works.
if people would just understand this basic gospel truth. imagine how peaceful it would be in places like this?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
19,156
9,950
113
#17
your post is just screaming anger and judgement. you make the op sound like he is personally directing what he said to you
And your post is being totally unfair to that poster. Maybe you should read that post again. There is no screaming anger in it at all.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
19,156
9,950
113
#18
How do most people define "easy believism?"
I don't know about "most people" but "easy believism" is the result of preaching only half the Gospel, and failing to show that genuine repentance is condition of salvation, and that the Lord Jesus Christ is BOTH Lord and Savior, not just the Savior. Which means that Christ becomes Lord and Master of the one who believes on Him.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,532
113
#19
if people would just understand this basic gospel truth. imagine how peaceful it would be in places like this?
Well imagine how much more time and effort could be spent on activities that edify and disciple new believers into the great truths of the bible. The gospel does give peace and peace that passes all understanding even in the midst of fierce conflicts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
239
63
#20
This is a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation. Here is the meaning of Lordship salvation:

The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior.

https://www.gotquestions.org/lordship-salvation.html

There is nothing unbiblical about this, and is illustrated by the first words of the converted Saul (who became Paul the apostle): And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? (Acts 9:6)
Again, we do not make him Lord, he is Lord. GotQuestions is not correct about every little thing.