End time signs in Amillennialism?

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Mar 28, 2016
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#21
Ok not really making much sense but thanks for replying.
If you think the last day has been and gone ok but if so arent we meant to be numbering our years from AD .then its already 2019 unless you think we are in eternity now...? It seems you not really certain about that
That is not what I was trying to say. I said the last days or last time leading to the day of the lord the last day when time stops began when the veil was rent. The restoration had begun the time of reformation was here. We are still in those last days .There is no sign needed as to the time and hour. Christians walk by faith as that not seen the eternal. Not after some literal mark or chip planted on our body.

The mark is simply the mark of Cain .The mark he was born with (not believing in a God not seen) unlike his brother Abel who was born again.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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#22
That is not what I was trying to say. I said the last days or last time leading to the day of the lord the last day when time stops began when the veil was rent. The restoration had begun the time of reformation was here. We are still in those last days .There is no sign needed as to the time and hour. Christians walk by faith as that not seen the eternal. Not after some literal mark or chip planted on our body.

The mark is simply the mark of Cain .The mark he was born with (not believing in a God not seen) unlike his brother Abel who was born again.


In Acts 3:21 Peter speaks of this in a future tense and you speak of it as past tense. Why do the two of you differ and which of the two should we agree with?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#23
Hmm ok Garee you believe time stopped when the veil was rent? Interesting.
Is this kind of like the kooky NAR teachings which teach kingdom now theology. Or something. Or dispensationalism..even the mormons believe weird things about the 'latter days'. Sorry but you still not making much sense.

Nobody is saying there is going to be any chip implanted in our bodies. And even if there was, believers are will refuse to take it anyway. Even if we are beheaded, we believe in Jesus and not going to take any mark. We are going to be sealed with the name of God on our foreheads, not the mark of the beast.


Also Cain was NOT born with a mark! Read your Bible and you will see he was not born with it, God placed a mark on Cain AFTER he killed Abel. To stop others from seeking revenge.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#24
In Acts 3:21 Peter speaks of this in a future tense and you speak of it as past tense. Why do the two of you differ and which of the two should we agree with?
Thanks for the reply. We have to agree with His interpretation thats where sparks can fly

The verse you offered seems to be saying men will be continue to be reborn by the hearing of the gospel till the end.

And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:21

It said nothing about the invisible mark identifying Cain as a restless wanderer (no sabbath rest)....Which is. no thoughts of God coming from God needed to encourage just a strong delusion hardening the hard heart of Cain . His hard heart remained hard as granite all the days of his life like a "living hell". A suffering more that Cain could bear. One that God made sure was carried out till the end, the mark of a unbeliever, natural man 666

Christ took on that suffering for his brother Abel, his blood cried out... have mercy, new spirit life was given . Abel the first martyr will rise in his new spirit on the last day and receive like all believers the promised new incorruptible bodies all in the twinkling of the eye.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#25
Even if we are beheaded, we believe in Jesus and not going to take any mark.
Morning Lanolin!

Based on everything scripture has to say, I am confident that the church will not be here during the time of the mark, which will become the only valid form of electronic buying and selling and that taking place around the middle of the seven years. For during that same time God's wrath will have been in operation via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which believers are not appointed to suffer. That time period of God's wrath, also known as "the day of the Lord" and "the hour of trial" will be directed at who will have continued to reject Christ, the prideful and arrogant, those living according to the sinful nature. Therefore, the church must be removed prior to said wrath.

It is paramount to understanding that there is a big difference between the trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would have vs. God's tribulation of wrath. The former comes at the hands of men and the powers of darkness, while the latter will be unprecedented and will come directly from God. This coming wrath will affect the entire world, decimating the majority of the population and dismantling all human government.

We are going to be sealed with the name of God on our foreheads, not the mark of the beast.
Scripture makes it very clear, that those who will be sealed will be 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe, which are listed per tribe right there in the scripture. The 144,000 is not a figurative group representing the church, which will have already been removed from the earth. In fact if you will notice, the word ekklesia/church is used 18 times throughout chapters 1 thru 3 of Revelation. Within those same chapters you will not see the word saints.

After chapter 4 first used at 5:8, the word hagios/saints is used and we never see the word ekklesia/church again within the narrative of God's wrath. God is making a distinction here and providing us with a clue. The saints who are being referred to are those who are introduced in Rev.7:9-17 who are that group in white robes which no man can count. The very fact that the elder is asking John who they are, demonstrates that this group is not the church, but is another group. Another proof that this group is not the church, is that the elder asks John who they are, but he says that he doesn't know. The elder then tells John that this group are those who have come out of the great tribulation, which again the church is not appointed to suffer and because it is God's tribulation, not man's or Satan's.

Doesn't get your attention when you read the word "church" over and over throughout chapters 1 thru 3 and then it abruptly stops being used? The reason for this is that I believe that Rev.4:1-2 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is caught up, as represented by John hearing that voice which sounds like a trumpet saying "come up here." I believe that this voice like a trumpet is synonymous with "the trumpet of God" found in 1 Thess.4:16 in Paul's description of the gathering of the church.

I
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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#26
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Nobody is saying there is going to be any chip implanted in our bodies. And even if there was, believers are will refuse to take it anyway. Even if we are beheaded, we believe in Jesus and not going to take any mark. We are going to be sealed with the name of God on our foreheads, not the mark of the beast.


I deleted the parts I don't quite understand like dispensationalism, so I cannot comment on it. I also deleted what I agree with. But when they stop using real money and all payments are made via direct deposits and or bank transfers without cash. How many will refuse the mark and let their children go hungry? How many full gospel believing Christians do you think are in the world today? As of 1/1/17 the world population was estimated at 7,444,443,881. 25 months ago. We are a very small minority.
1549823926137.png
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
#27
The US with 300,000,000 population is only less than 5% of the worlds population. How many of us are willing to die for our faith in Jesus and refuse to obey the antichrist during his last rise to power and damnation?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#28
The US with 300,000,000 population is only less than 5% of the worlds population. How many of us are willing to die for our faith in Jesus and refuse to obey the antichrist during his last rise to power and damnation?
With all good conscience and understanding, I can say that the church will never see the antichrist, as according to His promise the Lord will appear and remove us prior to the revealing of that first seal rider on the white horse which is representing the antichrist and which also initiates God's wrath. The restrainer (Holy Spirit) being taken out of the way, is synonymous with the church being removed, because He dwells in each believer, then that lawless one will be revealed.

But as far as being willing to die for our faith, this is synonymous with taking up our crosses daily, meaning to be committed to Christ even in the face of persecution and even death. So I agree with your inference of how many will be willing to die for their faith, as being not as many as we would like to think. Of course this all comes down to what Jesus said:

"whoever saves his life will lose it. But whoever loses his life for My sake and the word of God will save it."
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#29
144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe,
Ahemm!! Not to be nit-picky but I would like to point out oneONE TRIBE is missing! The tribe of Dan!

instead we got one tribe split to two, to match the original number!

I dont know why DAN is missing, and I probably will never know. But if anyone has a clue as to why its like that, I would GREATLY appreciate it!

One theory i've been thinking about with the brethren is that possibly the antichrist comes from the tribe of Dan, because in the OT its often connected to war and negative things.
BUT THATS NOTHING BUT A WILD THEORY!
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
#30
I don't get into pre, mid or post trib., rapture debates. I just say get ready, stay ready and be ready. For it will come like a thief in the night.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#31
I don't get into pre, mid or post trib., rapture debates. I just say get ready, stay ready and be ready. For it will come like a thief in the night.
Dont worry bro. If you're on your toes it wont come like a thief for you:


1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Have you heard of the guy who said about the pre or post-trib rapture question:
"I think thats a
pre-postrous question"
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,601
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#33
I dont know why DAN is missing, and I probably will never know. But if anyone has a clue as to why its like that, I would GREATLY appreciate it!
Dan was placed under a curse for that tribe's idolatry and violation of the commandments of God.
And the children of Dan set up the graven image: and Jonathan, the son of Gershom, the son of Manasseh, he and his sons were priests to the tribe of Dan until the day of the captivity of the land. And they set them up Micah's graven image, which he made, all the time that the house of God was in Shiloh. (Judges 18:30,31) Read the entire chapter to see their wickedness.

In spite of this, God will be merciful to the tribe of Dan in the Millennium, and in the redeemed land of Israel:

Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides eastand west; a portion for Dan. And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher. (Ezek 48:1)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#34
Ahemm!! Not to be nit-picky but I would like to point out oneONE TRIBE is missing! The tribe of Dan!

instead we got one tribe split to two, to match the original number!

I dont know why DAN is missing, and I probably will never know. But if anyone has a clue as to why its like that, I would GREATLY appreciate it!

One theory i've been thinking about with the brethren is that possibly the antichrist comes from the tribe of Dan, because in the OT its often connected to war and negative things.
BUT THATS NOTHING BUT A WILD THEORY!
Hello Hevosmies,

Yes, I am aware that Dan is missing and is replaced by Josephs son Manasseh. Like you, I have not found anything concrete as to why Dan is missing. Some say it was because of the tribe of Dan's worship of false gods. However, all of the tribes were guilty of that. Therefore, I don't see that as the reason.

One thing is certain, is the fact that the literal tribes of Israel are in view here. I say this because there are those who use Dan's absence as proof that the twelve tribes of Israel is not in view here and thereby allegorize/spiritualize them as representing the church or some other group.

As I have said so many times before, the male child is a collective name representing the 144,000, who will come out of the woman, unbelieving Israel (gives birth to), as are those who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#35
STRONGS NT 59: ἀγοράζω

ἀγοράζω; (imperfect ἠγόραζον; future ἀγοράσω); 1 aorist ἠγόρασα; passive, perfect participle ἠγορασμένος; 1 aorist ἠγοράσθην; (ἀγορά);
1. to frequent the marketplace.
2. to buy (properly, in the marketplace) (Aristophanes, Xenophon, others); used


"to frequent the marketplace"

Seems to me that the buying and selling is literal! The reason I mention this is because I have seen some commentators state that its talking about being able to be a deacon in a church or "do business" within the church, SO TO SPEAK. Or "buy the truth sell it not" from proverbs.

But I believe that interpretation to be an UNNATURAL reading of the text and a LOGICAL LEAP! Who would have understood it that way???

Btw I am still waiting an ANSWER to this question: How can the amills say satan is bound now from deceiving the nations (rev 20) while teachin revelation 12 is also speaking of the current time in WHICH it states satan is deceiving teh nations?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#36
Hello Hevosmies,

Yes, I am aware that Dan is missing and is replaced by Josephs son Manasseh. Like you, I have not found anything concrete as to why Dan is missing. Some say it was because of the tribe of Dan's worship of false gods. However, all of the tribes were guilty of that. Therefore, I don't see that as the reason.

One thing is certain, is the fact that the literal tribes of Israel are in view here. I say this because there are those who use Dan's absence as proof that the twelve tribes of Israel is not in view here and thereby allegorize/spiritualize them as representing the church or some other group.

As I have said so many times before, the male child is a collective name representing the 144,000, who will come out of the woman, unbelieving Israel (gives birth to), as are those who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah.
Was it renamed...? The twelve tribes are obviously representing the nation of Israel, why some people think they are something else I dont know. And note that Judah is included.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,178
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#37
.

Nobody is saying there is going to be any chip implanted in our bodies. And even if there was, believers are will refuse to take it anyway. Even if we are beheaded, we believe in Jesus and not going to take any mark. We are going to be sealed with the name of God on our foreheads, not the mark of the beast.


I deleted the parts I don't quite understand like dispensationalism, so I cannot comment on it. I also deleted what I agree with. But when they stop using real money and all payments are made via direct deposits and or bank transfers without cash. How many will refuse the mark and let their children go hungry? How many full gospel believing Christians do you think are in the world today? As of 1/1/17 the world population was estimated at 7,444,443,881. 25 months ago. We are a very small minority.
View attachment 194124
Sorry i dont understand why you deleting my posts it got nothing to do with dispensationalism. Or did you. Mean something else. . Im just reading the Bible esp Revelation just like you and trying to figure out what it says.
It does mention that the 144,000 are virgins so presumably they dont have children.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,178
113
#38
STRONGS NT 59: ἀγοράζω

ἀγοράζω; (imperfect ἠγόραζον; future ἀγοράσω); 1 aorist ἠγόρασα; passive, perfect participle ἠγορασμένος; 1 aorist ἠγοράσθην; (ἀγορά);
1. to frequent the marketplace.
2. to buy (properly, in the marketplace) (Aristophanes, Xenophon, others); used


"to frequent the marketplace"

Seems to me that the buying and selling is literal! The reason I mention this is because I have seen some commentators state that its talking about being able to be a deacon in a church or "do business" within the church, SO TO SPEAK. Or "buy the truth sell it not" from proverbs.

But I believe that interpretation to be an UNNATURAL reading of the text and a LOGICAL LEAP! Who would have understood it that way???

Btw I am still waiting an ANSWER to this question: How can the amills say satan is bound now from deceiving the nations (rev 20) while teachin revelation 12 is also speaking of the current time in WHICH it states satan is deceiving teh nations?
Good question, yes what does that mean. Clearly satan is still deceiving the nations or we would ALL be in the kingdom of heaven right now.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,178
113
#39
With all good conscience and understanding, I can say that the church will never see the antichrist, as according to His promise the Lord will appear and remove us prior to the revealing of that first seal rider on the white horse which is representing the antichrist and which also initiates God's wrath. The restrainer (Holy Spirit) being taken out of the way, is synonymous with the church being removed, because He dwells in each believer, then that lawless one will be revealed.

But as far as being willing to die for our faith, this is synonymous with taking up our crosses daily, meaning to be committed to Christ even in the face of persecution and even death. So I agree with your inference of how many will be willing to die for their faith, as being not as many as we would like to think. Of course this all comes down to what Jesus said:

"whoever saves his life will lose it. But whoever loses his life for My sake and the word of God will save it."
Hi ok dont really want to nitpick, but heaps of people seem to believe the antichrist is just one person. Arent there many people who are antichrist in the world today? They just call themselves atheists.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#40
Hi ok dont really want to nitpick, but heaps of people seem to believe the antichrist is just one person. Arent there many people who are antichrist in the world today? They just call themselves atheists.
True

But what im referring to when using antichrist is the man of sin mentioned in 2 thess 2:4