Engaging Culture

[kingerik]

There's been some debate among the online Christian community about the recent collaboration of Kirk Franklin (A very popular Gospel artist) and a Kanye West (A rapper with a history of obscenity, blasphemy, and controversy but he grew up with a Christian background and still expresses interest in God). They were angry saying that he had no business working with someone who is "clearly not a Christian," and saying that he should never have been working with that artist. It's also the same criticism that Lecrae( A Christian rapper) is getting from working with secular artists on some songs.


I would like your thoughts on this situation and really engaging culture as a whole. Should a Christian work with anyone who isn't a Christian? What does it mean really to be in the world and not of it?


Also P.S. his contribution to the song was a prayer at the end telling anyone that even if you haven't talked to God in forever, you still can, and it's not too late. Look forward to your thoughts!

 

[crossnote]

Isn't that called crossing over?
In the music world the formidable foe is not the secular public but the pressure that comes from the agents and being under contract.
I've seen too many Christian artists fall flat on their faces and in a cesspool of compromise.

 

[Budman]

"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14)

It's not just taking about marriage.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Debasing GOD's message to appeal to men may fill the pews, but it's PU to GOD.

 

[kingerik]

Debasing GOD's message to appeal to men may fill the pews, but it's PU to GOD.

View attachment 144404

They aren't debasing God's message? They are reaching these people who still have a semblance of faith. kirks was a prayer and it was a good prayer while lecrae gives the rapper a chance to speak and talk about God....probably much more than what happens off stage

 

[ember]

Yeah...I just don't like rap period lol!

BUT I'm not going to judge hearts here

Ive heard about it and don't know enough to decide actually

I remember a time in my 20's when I was away from church and I love music...I was driving..alone in my car...song came on...don't remember it...but it totally touched my heart and I just started crying and asking God to help me

The reason I was not in church was directly related to some of the nasty judgements and self righteous attitudes displayed in these forums

I don't think a non Christian should be in a worship band or team...but some are fine with it...Im going to say what I think but I'm not going to send everyone to hell because they have a different belief; you know?

I have no problem hanging out with non Christians ...Ive witnessed to plenty ..you can't do that while looking at them down your long religious nose

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

The difference between reaching out and witnessing to the world and doing what the world is doing is the dividing line in our evangelism. When we look like and sound like the world, how can we be salt and light? When we are found doing the very things we are trying to show the world we're not... it's called hypocrisy.

Jesus did eat with the sinners and tax collectors. This was done to reach out to them. In no way, shape, or form did Jesus compromise His walk and His truth by doing what they were doing. This is the essence of not yoking.

When we work with those who are in the world, it is one thing.
However, when we engage in spiritual enterprise WITH the world, then we are compromising our walk with the Lord. Whatever we do to worship the Lord, He asks us to keep separate and be that salt and light. In the case of Christian artists collaborating with secular artists, the same distinction must be made. While we can share with them worship and praise music that glorify's God, it's another thing entirely to allow them to sing with them in albums. It sends a message to the world that we approve of the secular music and themes that these artists are promoting. It even gets worse when our music looks like (in concert), sounds like, and feels like the same music of the world that we are trying to be distinct from. If and when the artist becomes born again and repents of a life lived outside of God and begins to perform music that glorifies God only, then there will be no problem in collaborating with them when it comes to music.

TLDR: We do need to reach out to the world and witness to them. When we do so we cannot yoke and compromise with the very truth and conduct God asks for us to have. When it comes to the ways we worship and glorify God, we must remain separate from the world and be that salt and light or we become salt that has lost its flavor good only to be thrown out.

 

[ember]

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14)

It's not just taking about marriage.

**************************

Yeah Budman

I think that scripture can easily apply to Christians as well

For example, not all Christians believe ALL the Bible

I do

I usually don't 'click' with cessationists for example or those who say God has no more interest in Israel or those who love to hit others over the head with the family edition of the KJV

So....like...unless a person lives on a piece of paper, and believes God is judgement without mercy and died so He could better define who goes to hell, it is VERY unrealistic to apply that scripture the way you seem to want to apply it

You do know one of Jesus ancestors on the human side was a whore, right?

God can just really do a smackdown on some of our pious sensibilities at times

Go figure

 

[PeterJens]

There's been some debate among the online Christian community about the recent collaboration of Kirk Franklin (A very popular Gospel artist) and a Kanye West (A rapper with a history of obscenity, blasphemy, and controversy but he grew up with a Christian background and still expresses interest in God). They were angry saying that he had no business working with someone who is "clearly not a Christian," and saying that he should never have been working with that artist. It's also the same criticism that Lecrae( A Christian rapper) is getting from working with secular artists on some songs.


I would like your thoughts on this situation and really engaging culture as a whole. Should a Christian work with anyone who isn't a Christian? What does it mean really to be in the world and not of it?


Also P.S. his contribution to the song was a prayer at the end telling anyone that even if you haven't talked to God in forever, you still can, and it's not too late. Look forward to your thoughts!

Is not music depending on what you are expressing. Music is neutral or a medium for an emotional expression linked to a story. It strikes me both christians and non-christians have created music that people dislike and other that speaks to them. So I would tend to judge by the product of collaborations, whether they are something we would approve of or is just another load of junk.

It strikes me in any industry if you say you can only work christians you will not do much work, but some do talk like this.
How this could be linked to marriage for me is a strange way of talking about working relationships. Do you marry your plumber, or builder, or roofer? No, so why the language of intimacy?

 

[Chuckt]

There's been some debate among the online Christian community about the recent collaboration of Kirk Franklin (A very popular Gospel artist) and a Kanye West (A rapper with a history of obscenity, blasphemy, and

I know that no one will walk with me and do evangelism with me.
I get beat up online and no one will stand with me.

In my opinion, he who is for us is not against us in some sense (Luke 9:50).
Maybe he is witnessing to him and by tasting and witnessing what they are doing together, he will change his heart.

I've seen more evils than this to be concerned about it.

And I'm not too concerned what everyone is about.
Tell me what you are for.

 

[pottersclay]

God forbid that we touch a unclean thing . Where would you ever get a notion that the holy children of God should ever mingle with the un saved...yuck...what was he thinking? And to put a prayer in with such a un regenerate persons work.. I have to take a shower just thinking about it ...7showers should do it.

 

[ember]

Holy water on tap?

 

[PeterJens]

God forbid

Lol, that made me laugh. Sounds very OCD.

 

[PeterJens]

Got to laugh.

Ember who thinks I want to stalk her posted a comment at exactly the same time as me.
But then coincidences are never that, but opportunities of the Lord to make a point.

Can you turn everything into a blessing and see the good or only the bad?

A study was done on psychology, and those who only look for the bad see it everywhere, and therefore get paranoid and depressed.

If you train yourself to see the good and the best in people, that is what you will find, and praise the Lord that in this world of sin there is still something full of love and thankfullness.

When you see ISIS and the psychopaths who kill on a whim and those doctors and nurses who work tirelessly in hospitals saving lives, I thank Jesus for the gift of life and love he put in the hearts and souls of people. While you can still see this there is hope.

 

[Budman]

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14)

It's not just taking about marriage.

**************************

Yeah Budman

I think that scripture can easily apply to Christians as well

For example, not all Christians believe ALL the Bible

I do

I usually don't 'click' with cessationists for example or those who say God has no more interest in Israel or those who love to hit others over the head with the family edition of the KJV

So....like...unless a person lives on a piece of paper, and believes God is judgement without mercy and died so He could better define who goes to hell, it is VERY unrealistic to apply that scripture the way you seem to want to apply it

You do know one of Jesus ancestors on the human side was a whore, right?

God can just really do a smackdown on some of our pious sensibilities at times

Go figure

I see what you mean about the Christian aspect of it. I don't see much good coming from Bible believing Christians teaming up with people like Rick Warren, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, et al.

Unless it's to support them if/when they repent of the blatant heresies they preach.

But I also don't see any point regarding Christians who stand together publicly with people like the Mormon Glenn Beck, or Catholic politicians like Marco Rubio, and Jeb Bush, for any purpose. To do so gives those folks a certain legitimacy in the eyes of many believers. Though, I know, those men are not running for "Pastor-in-Chief" of America, or any office at all (like Beck), but the religions they support are wicked enemies of the cross of Christ, and do have an influence over the way they think and act.

Yet, I suppose, reality dictates that in politics, most Christians vote for the lesser of two evils. I voted for Romney over Obama for that very reason. I feel guilt over that, and believe I made a mistake, but many Christians sitting out the election pretty much handed Obama the Presidency again.

The Bible says, we are in the world, but not of the world. For the most part, our job, in regard to engaging the culture, should be to preach the gospel. Getting people saved should be our main focus - the rest will fall into place.

 

[Depleted]

Isn't that called crossing over?
In the music world the formidable foe is not the secular public but the pressure that comes from the agents and being under contract.
I've seen too many Christian artists fall flat on their faces and in a cesspool of compromise.

And the Christian artist who really make it, don't really make it. (Phil Keaggy is a great guitarist, Grammy winner, and award winner, and yet he never made the kind of money non Christians have, because he played nothing but Christian music. He's good whether you're a Christian or not.) The Christian community expects "free" whenever they engage in the services or products of a Christian.

I once had a job from a Christian man. I never got any work, because he couldn't find any work. (He had a cleaning business, but no one used it without thinking it should be free.) Any job I ever had where I did work and did get paid was from a non-Christian.

When I opened my own business, I thought long and hard on if I should advertise in the Christian Yellow Pages. After all, Christians tend to want everything free, and if they can't con you into free, then they expect severe price reductions simply because you're a Christian. I did advertise in those Yellow Pages, but I wasn't going to reduce my rates for my services. Either you could afford my services or you can't. I got a customer from that ad, (not all Christians want cheaper rates, but enough that this is real), so broke even.

Hubby was an HVAC mechanic. Numerous times he was approached after church to "take a look at my air-conditioner." (He didn't do window units, but many people looking for a freebie got angry with him because he didn't.) Or "take a look at my heater." He'd driver over to the persons Cherry Hill (NJ) upper class home, walk through the three-bay garage past the Mercedes and BMWs, to look at a heater so old it was middle-aged during WWI, and was expected to rig it together again even though the cast iron had worn away. And when he told the people they need a new heater, (which every heating outfit had already told them), and what he would charge them for the job (and he didn't do side jobs except for friends), they got angry with him.

That's the Christian community I know, so I don't fault anyone for getting work away from it.

 

[pottersclay]

I always told my friends business is business I charge the same for everyone which is a fair price. When and if I decide to do a freebie or reduced rate it's on me.
But I have come across some who want to name there own price which is usually so low I tell them you don't want me you want a elephant because they work for peanuts.

 

[ember]

I see what you mean about the Christian aspect of it. I don't see much good coming from Bible believing Christians teaming up with people like Rick Warren, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, et al.*

Unless it's to support them if/when they repent of the blatant heresies they preach.*

But I also don't see any point regarding Christians who stand together publicly with people like the Mormon Glenn Beck, or Catholic politicians like Marco Rubio, and Jeb Bush, for any purpose. To do so gives those folks a certain legitimacy in the eyes of many believers. Though, I know, those men are not running for "Pastor-in-Chief" of America, or any office at all (like Beck), but the religions they support are wicked enemies of the cross of Christ, and do have an influence over the way they think and act.

Yet, I suppose, reality dictates that in politics, most Christians vote for the lesser of two evils. I voted for Romney over Obama for that very reason. I feel guilt over that, and believe I made a mistake, but many Christians sitting out the election pretty much handed Obama the Presidency again.*

The Bible says, we are in the world, but not of the world. For the most part, our job, in regard to engaging the culture, should be to preach the gospel. Getting people saved should be our main focus - the rest will fall into place.


****************************


Lol...I'm not sure what button I pushed but that's a lotta feedback

I agree re politicians...I would have had no prob voting for Romney...God used all kinds of people to do His will...frankly I was kind of steamed about Christians NOT voting for him cause he's a Mormon

I, personally, find it very disagreeable when a politician tries to get 'Jesus' votes and the term 'evangelical vote' is like nails on a blackboard to me

In the world but not OF the world ....just so

See? Not so painful

 

[Willie-T]

This "cheap" stuff used to be the norm for me too back when I attended regular churches. But, for the past 15 years, or so, since I have hung with those awful "Grace" people, almost everyone I have done work for wants to pay me more, at the end of the job, than I charged them.

 

[Willie-T]

I see what you mean about the Christian aspect of it. I don't see much good coming from Bible believing Christians teaming up with people like Rick Warren, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, et al.*

Unless it's to support them if/when they repent of the blatant heresies they preach.*

But I also don't see any point regarding Christians who stand together publicly with people like the Mormon Glenn Beck, or Catholic politicians like Marco Rubio, and Jeb Bush, for any purpose. To do so gives those folks a certain legitimacy in the eyes of many believers. Though, I know, those men are not running for "Pastor-in-Chief" of America, or any office at all (like Beck), but the religions they support are wicked enemies of the cross of Christ, and do have an influence over the way they think and act.

Yet, I suppose, reality dictates that in politics, most Christians vote for the lesser of two evils. I voted for Romney over Obama for that very reason. I feel guilt over that, and believe I made a mistake, but many Christians sitting out the election pretty much handed Obama the Presidency again.*

The Bible says, we are in the world, but not of the world. For the most part, our job, in regard to engaging the culture, should be to preach the gospel. Getting people saved should be our main focus - the rest will fall into place.


****************************


Lol...I'm not sure what button I pushed but that's a lotta feedback

I agree re politicians...I would have had no prob voting for Romney...God used all kinds of people to do His will...frankly I was kind of steamed about Christians NOT voting for him cause he's a Mormon

I, personally, find it very disagreeable when a politician tries to get 'Jesus' votes and the term 'evangelical vote' is like nails on a blackboard to me

In the world but not OF the world ....just so

See? Not so painful

As a man I can respect for his devotion to God, I would have stood with Ben Carson before I would side with that phony religious poser, Ted Cruz. But, as a president, I would have put Christy in front of all of them..... and I'm not even sure he knows how to spell, God.