Ephesians 4:32

[CDavid]

[h=3]Ephesians 4:32[/h] And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.


Correct me if I'm wrong.
The way I understand the procedure for obtaining the forgiveness from God, is that we must first confess our guilt, then repent (that is to turn away; stop the offense), then ask for His mercy.

So, if we are to forgive "one another, even as God in Christ forgave", are we allowed to hold back on forgiving, until the offenders follow the procedures for obtaining forgiveness from us.

The reason I ask this is because I have recently forgiven someone, who has caused irreparable damage to me and my family.
I told her that I forgive her in an email message, two days ago.
There is no way she could ever repair the damage she has done, and I don't expect her to even try.
I thought that if, by telling her she is forgiven, it would help me to sleep at night.
But, not being able to sleep again last night, and thinking on this scripture, I'm having second thoughts.
I don't believe it is possible to be more forgiving than God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, or even as forgiving.
I believe He expects us to try to be as forgiving.
But does He expect us to one up Him, by forgiving the unrepentant.

 

[CDavid]

Well, it's been 4 hours sense I posted this one.
I assume that, because no one is posting a reply, my thinking on this must be correct.

If anyone can point to me where I am wrong, please do.
I will give it a couple more hours, and if there's still no convincing persuasion in opposition to my thoughts on this, I will send another email, letting this lady ( and I now use that term loosely) know that I recant the message I sent two days past.

 

[jinx]

Mat_6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Mat_6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors

Mar_11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar_11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

JESUS says it very plainly that you must forgive all who offend you, or GOD won't forgive you of your own sins.

 

[Angela53510]

I agree. There is nothing that says we are NOT to forgive an unrepentant sinner. There sin is between God and them. Your sin is unforgiveness. So don't go back on that forgiveness.

Was it really forgiveness, if it was so easy to forget? Maybe you need to forgive her in your heart?

And I am sorry you have been through this struggle. Let God transform it into a situation for learning to grow closer to God!

 

[RedTent]

My understanding is that we, as humans, need God's help to forgive. It is really too hard to do alone.

You need to have received the Holy Spirit, first. If you can read scripture with understanding of the spirit of God, then you do that through the Holy Spirit that you have. Some people receive this Spirit with a big bang and some very silently.

Then, you do like it says in the Lord's Prayer. You know of God, you know God created you and the world, and you know God is Holy. We bless His Holy Name.

After that you give up your life to God. You trust Him. You have been through something very difficult because of what has been done to you. You are to trust God to take care of it. God says He will take care, just let Him do it. And have faith in how He does it. He can handle it better than you can. God does not want you wronged, and God doesn't want you to avenge the wrong done you, but let Him do the avenging.

You will be going over this hurt done you like a pet hamster on an excercise wheel. You have control of your mind, just stop the wheel spinning over and over and give it all to God. Put God thoughts in your mind to replace those.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ephesians 4:32

And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.


Correct me if I'm wrong.
The way I understand the procedure for obtaining the forgiveness from God, is that we must first confess our guilt, then repent (that is to turn away; stop the offense), then ask for His mercy.

So, if we are to forgive "one another, even as God in Christ forgave", are we allowed to hold back on forgiving, until the offenders follow the procedures for obtaining forgiveness from us.

The reason I ask this is because I have recently forgiven someone, who has caused irreparable damage to me and my family.
I told her that I forgive her in an email message, two days ago.
There is no way she could ever repair the damage she has done, and I don't expect her to even try.
I thought that if, by telling her she is forgiven, it would help me to sleep at night.
But, not being able to sleep again last night, and thinking on this scripture, I'm having second thoughts.
I don't believe it is possible to be more forgiving than God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, or even as forgiving.
I believe He expects us to try to be as forgiving.
But does He expect us to one up Him, by forgiving the unrepentant.

Gods love is unconditional. He asks no condition. His example of how we are to forgive others is an example of how he forgives us.

We want to think their are conditions. but there are non. Just to receive his gift.

If youforgive someone and they reject your forgiveness, they do not recieve your gift of forgiveness.

Same Goes with God. He forgave us and offers his gift of forgivenes.. but if we do not recieve it freely. We will not recieve his gift.

 

[CDavid]

Mat_6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Mat_6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors

Mar_11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar_11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

JESUS says it very plainly that you must forgive all who offend you, or GOD won't forgive you of your own sins.

Mat_6:14 I totally agree with this. God always forgives us, if with a contrite heart we ask for His mercy. And in like manner, "as God in Christ forgave us" I should forgive all who ask with a contrite heart.

Mat_6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors Again I agree. We must forgive the repentant deptor "as God in Christ forgave us" after we repented.


Mar_11:25 "if ye have ought against any" I agree with this also. The word ought in this verse means obligated or obliged. God is not obligated nor is He obliged to forgive the unrepentant. And if we forgive "as God in Christ forgave us" we are obligated and obliged to forgive those who seek forgiveness.

Mar_11:26 If we read verse 26 alone and ignore the preceding verse 25, it would appear that God expects us to become a bunch of spineless door mats. Without reading the two verses together, the ought is missing. And again there are those we are ought/obliged/obligated to forgive (those who seek will find) and there are those who we are obligated/obliged or ought not to forgive.

A lot of people take scripture to extremes. This is done with "Thou shalt not kill". Some will say this means we should have no death penalty, and we should not serve our country against our enemies. Some will turn the other cheek until the entire world is ruled by Islamic law. And sometimes, in order to be that good Samaritan, violence is required. For example; if the Samaritan had been ahead of schedule, and he arrived on the scene at the same minute the robbers attacked, would he still be good if he does not try to fight off the attackers? Not likely!

God does not expect His people to be a bunch of door mats!

 

[PS]

Ephesians 4:32

And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.


Correct me if I'm wrong.
The way I understand the procedure for obtaining the forgiveness from God, is that we must first confess our guilt, then repent (that is to turn away; stop the offense), then ask for His mercy.

So, if we are to forgive "one another, even as God in Christ forgave", are we allowed to hold back on forgiving, until the offenders follow the procedures for obtaining forgiveness from us.

The reason I ask this is because I have recently forgiven someone, who has caused irreparable damage to me and my family.
I told her that I forgive her in an email message, two days ago.
There is no way she could ever repair the damage she has done, and I don't expect her to even try.
I thought that if, by telling her she is forgiven, it would help me to sleep at night.
But, not being able to sleep again last night, and thinking on this scripture, I'm having second thoughts.
I don't believe it is possible to be more forgiving than God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, or even as forgiving.
I believe He expects us to try to be as forgiving.
But does He expect us to one up Him, by forgiving the unrepentant.

Forgiving is the first step, forgetting is harder.

Mic 7:18 Who is a God like you, pardoning iniquity and passing over transgression for the remnant of his inheritance? He does not retain his anger forever, because he delights in steadfast love.

 

[CDavid]

I agree. There is nothing that says we are NOT to forgive an unrepentant sinner. There sin is between God and them. Your sin is unforgiveness. So don't go back on that forgiveness.

Was it really forgiveness, if it was so easy to forget? Maybe you need to forgive her in your heart?

And I am sorry you have been through this struggle. Let God transform it into a situation for learning to grow closer to God!

You are right, I do not forgive her. I sent the email saying I did for two reasons; 1) It was my hope that by doing so, it would motivate me to forgive, so I could get some rest. 2) because in doing so, I would appear to be the bigger person, while causing her to feel guilt. I still don't forgive her and I have no concern for God to judge me by the same standard, should I ever commit the same or similar offense. Jesus instructs us to forgive any we "have ought"meaning; have obligation/are obliged, because they are repentant and seek mercy. Otherwise we "have ought" not to forgive.

 

[PS]

Mat_6:14 I totally agree with this. God always forgives us, if with a contrite heart we ask for His mercy. And in like manner, "as God in Christ forgave us" I should forgive all who ask with a contrite heart.

Mat_6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtorsAgain I agree. We must forgive the repentant deptor "as God in Christ forgave us"after we repented.


Mar_11:25 "if ye have ought against any" I agree with this also. The word ought in this verse means obligated or obliged. God is not obligated nor is He obliged to forgive the unrepentant. And if we forgive "as God in Christ forgave us"we are obligated and obliged to forgive those who seek forgiveness.

Mar_11:26 If we read verse 26 alone and ignore the preceding verse 25, it would appear that God expects us to become a bunch of spineless door mats. Without reading the two verses together, the ought is missing. And again there are those we are ought/obliged/obligated to forgive (those who seek will find) and there are those who we are obligated/obliged or ought not to forgive.

A lot of people take scripture to extremes. This is done with "Thou shalt not kill". Some will say this means we should have no death penalty, and we should not serve our country against our enemies. Some will turn the other cheek until the entire world is ruled by Islamic law. And sometimes, in order to be that good Samaritan, violence is required. For example; if the Samaritan had been ahead of schedule, and he arrived on the scene at the same minute the robbers attacked, would he still be good if he does not try to fight off the attackers? Not likely!

God does not expect His people to be a bunch of door mats!

In the spirit of caring for someone wouldn't it have been natural and indeed expected for the Good Samaritan to protect the traveller?

I would have a problem if the Good Samaritan killed the attackers though. Would that be "Good" I ask myself?

 

[crosspreacher]

You are right to telling her that you forgave her. May be God would work through your courageous action and touches her heart to bring her to repentance one day. Only God can forgive perfectly. We say that we forgive but sometimes when it is hard, it comes into our mind and we cannot erase it completely in our memory.
From my own experience, when this happens to me, I go in a secret place and I pray with all my heart for that person until I feel free.
If that situation is oppressing you, please try to pray for her with all your heart until you'll get the result.

 

[Ariel82]

You are right, not forgive her. I sent the email saying I did for two reasons; 1) It was my hope that by doing so, it would motivate me to forgive, so I could get some rest. 2) because in doing so, I would appear t be the bigger person, while using her to feel guilt. I still don't forgive her and I have no concern for God to judge me by the same standard, should I ever commit the same or similar offense. Jesus instructs us to forgive any we "have ought"meaning; have obligation/are obliged, because they are repentant and seek mercy. Otherwise we "have ought" not to forgive.

Our enemies do us harm and are not repentant,yet God told us to love even them.....if we only love those we judge worthy, than we are no better than thewicked world for they. Do the same.God expects more love and forgiveness. U were wrong to lie,but u should. pray god will help u forgive and pray for her.

 

[Bookreader]

My thought is that God forgives everyone. Because his son showed him that being human isn't so easy.
Everyone.

That does not mean you get the ticket into the Kingdom.
That is conditional on belief in his son.

Of course the argument gets hard if one is a perpetual torture type - then scripture trips you up all over the place...

 

[CDavid]

Well,tell you what I'll do. Because I do have Christian love for this person, and I truly want to forgive her, I will forgive, truly forgive her, even though there is nothing she or any one else can ever do, to correct her destruction she and the corporation have done, I will freely and unconditionally forgive her as I ought, when she wants me to forgive her. As soon as I learn that she truly wants to be forgiven, I will give to her, full and complete forgiveness, "as God in Christ forgave" me.

 

[jinx]

Why shouldn't we forgive others for everything they do wrong against us? is it such a task that we find reason NOT to forgive? We're Christians right? Can't find the strength to forgive someone? JESUS said "ask" and you will receive. "you have not cause you ask not!"
Does it make us a doormat for forgiving others? IS JESUS A DOOR MAT?
NO! we don't become doormats when we forgive others!!! We become powerful in the situation because after you forgive someone of something they did against you, you get peace, joy, love, and all the fruits of the SPIRIT working in you, and THROUGH you! you show that other person CHRIST working THROUGH you.
How do you NOT become a doormat? By being smarter the next time! take what you learned about the situation or person and don't shame yourself by falling for it again later.
CHRIST is all about forgiveness.
We're CHRISTians right?

 

[jinx]

You should forgive a person LONG before they ask for it. CHRIST died for us LONG before we existed.

 

[tribesman]

Ephesians 4:32

And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.


Correct me if I'm wrong.
The way I understand the procedure for obtaining the forgiveness from God, is that we must first confess our guilt, then repent (that is to turn away; stop the offense), then ask for His mercy.

So, if we are to forgive "one another, even as God in Christ forgave", are we allowed to hold back on forgiving, until the offenders follow the procedures for obtaining forgiveness from us.

The reason I ask this is because I have recently forgiven someone, who has caused irreparable damage to me and my family.
I told her that I forgive her in an email message, two days ago.
There is no way she could ever repair the damage she has done, and I don't expect her to even try.
I thought that if, by telling her she is forgiven, it would help me to sleep at night.
But, not being able to sleep again last night, and thinking on this scripture, I'm having second thoughts.
I don't believe it is possible to be more forgiving than God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, or even as forgiving.
I believe He expects us to try to be as forgiving.
But does He expect us to one up Him, by forgiving the unrepentant.

The repentant will always admit his sin/s and ask for forgiveness.

Luke.17

[3] Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
[4] And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.