Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

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Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
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I asked you a question. you gave me an answer, which I thanked you for.

I get the feeing you want me to accuse you of being a former member back under another name.
I am not going to.
I have already been accused of being a former member back under another name.
To which I showed my displeasure. I certainly don't want that from you too.
Although I actually expected it. And now you have inferred such.
I'm new here and already regret it. Why would I come back if I managed to escape?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,204
4,942
113
I have already been accused of being a former member back under another name.
To which I showed my displeasure. I certainly don't want that from you too.
Although I actually expected it. And now you have inferred such.
I'm new here and already regret it. Why would I come back if I managed to escape?
well, I have not done so. sorry you feel unwelcome. hope you stick around.

God bless.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
NAAAAAAAA....it is his work....he keeps me by his power!
Do you mean that God has to continue in His kindness otherwise He will be cut-off?

Do you mean that God has to obey His commands for YOU?

Does God keep you in His power so He can serve YOU?

Did He not give you the POWER yet?

...But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8

...Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits,to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,and to still another the interpretation of tongues.11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:7-11

...As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 Corinthians 6:1, Jude 1:4

...Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
971
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Consider this. Forgiveness of sins is not the same thing as Christ dying on the Cross.

On the Cross, Jesus was not forgiving sins, He was paying the price for all sin. When He uttered 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do', that was in reference to the people who were presently crucifying Him. This was done in order to halt any judgement of God coming on them to destroy them at that moment.

God does not forgive as man forgives. We forgive by letting it go, and not seeking any form of retribution. But God can never let it go. All sin must be judged and punished. And so it has been with Jesus Christ Sacrifice. Because all sin has been judged and punished, then God can forgive our sins as we as Christians sin against Him.

Why do we seek forgiveness? Because our sins hinder our relationship with God. Confessing our sins cleanses the air between us and God. (1 John 1:9). We are not trying to get back into Heaven. We are trying to maintain our walk with God.

Quantrill
We have been forgiven, this scripture paints so very clear. I understand what you're saying, and scripture would use the word propitiation and remission (to describe what you shared). Our sins were pardoned (or rather, we were pardoned), they were literally paid for. Its not as if God ignored the sin, Christ paid their price. Yet, scripture uses a lot of these words interchangeably representing what Christ's sacrifice accomplished on our behalf.

That being forgiveness.


Ephesians 4:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Colossians 3:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Ephesians 1:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Colossians 1:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:


We have been forgiven.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,838
3,025
113
Good.........a lazy Saturday evening....spent 6 hours replacing the carburetor on my 4 wheeler today, new air cleaner, new throttle cable, oil, new plug HAHAHHA everything cleaned with gas before re-assembly.......now just catching news and CC...how about you...?
Wow! That’s a lot of “works!” Lol! :giggle:

It’s great you can do all that yourself - it sounds like an expensive mechanic bill to me! Lol!

I’m enjoying a nice evening with the family. 😍👍
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
121
43
Paul did NOT seek forgiveness every day!

Paul said to be absent from the body was to be present wiht the lord. He could not say this if he thought he had to confess of every sin.. Because there woudl be NO WAY he could know if he was saved or not.

I think you need to study up on what sin is, I think you may have a hard time understanding because you think sins are just certain things..

The penalty of sin is death, The penalty of sin is not confessing each time you sin. You also do not understand Gods judicial system. You can confess your sins until your blue in the face. It does not make up or pay for the penalty of those sins, If thats all you did, you would still die in your sin.

Indeed, you confess your sin unto God and then never do it again. That is what true repentance is all about, never doing that particular sin again.

And sins come in all categories. The Followers of Christ converting the Gentiles made sexual sins a big issue. But sins fall into more than just sexual perversions, adultery, lust, and uncleanliness. A sin can be anything that separates us from God. Could be money, abusiveness, murder, any breaking of the 10 Commandments is a sin!!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
971
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Indeed, you confess your sin unto God and then never do it again. That is what true repentance is all about, never doing that particular sin again.

And sins come in all categories. The Followers of Christ converting the Gentiles made sexual sins a big issue. But sins fall into more than just sexual perversions, adultery, lust, and uncleanliness. A sin can be anything that separates us from God. Could be money, abusiveness, murder, any breaking of the 10 Commandments is a sin!!
So how many times do you promise to God to not do that sin ever again, only to do it again? If you're looking for rest, for confidence in His presence, you must understand the forgiveness you already have in Christ.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
We have been forgiven, this scripture paints so very clear. I understand what you're saying, and scripture would use the word propitiation and remission (to describe what you shared). Our sins were pardoned (or rather, we were pardoned), they were literally paid for. Its not as if God ignored the sin, Christ paid their price. Yet, scripture uses a lot of these words interchangeably representing what Christ's sacrifice accomplished on our behalf.

That being forgiveness.


Ephesians 4:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Colossians 3:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Ephesians 1:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Colossians 1:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:


We have been forgiven.
I don't believe the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ and forgiveness can be used interchangeably. That is like saying, sanctification, justification, glorification, are all saying the same thing. Many facets make up a diamond.

Yes, we have redemption in the blood of Jesus Christ, even the forgiveness of sins. And when you come to Christ all your sins have been remitted. Your salvation is secure. And because you have come to Christ, all your past sins have been forgiven. But now you have a Christian life to walk in here. And in that walk you sin. Thus (1 John 1:9)

Do you ever ask God for forgiveness when you confess your sins as (1 John 1:9) says? Why?...since we have already been forgiven?

Quantrill
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
971
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I don't believe the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ and forgiveness can be used interchangeably. That is like saying, sanctification, justification, glorification, are all saying the same thing. Many facets make up a diamond.

Yes, we have redemption in the blood of Jesus Christ, even the forgiveness of sins. And when you come to Christ all your sins have been remitted. Your salvation is secure. And because you have come to Christ, all your past sins have been forgiven. But now you have a Christian life to walk in here. And in that walk you sin. Thus (1 John 1:9)

Do you ever ask God for forgiveness when you confess your sins as (1 John 1:9) says? Why?...since we have already been forgiven?

Quantrill
I am saying that remission, and forgiveness go hand in hand, which are tied up in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That is what I am referring to as interchangeable. Even so, the Gospel itself is a message of reconciliation that happens as a result of Christ's sacrifice that grants us forgiveness/remission of sin.

1 John 1:9 is not about keeping a tally, or list, of sins that you then bring before the Father (seeking forgiveness). Look at the Greek for confession. It literally means to "come in agreement with", and contextually you'll see that in the previous verse (and following verse) it says that a person claiming to be sinless is not of the truth, calling God a liar. So, then, what an individual is doing is admitting that they have sin, are a sinner. This isn't about keeping short accounts with God, confessing one's individual sins, and seeking God's forgiveness or else.

This is like the law of polarity, hot and cold, on and off. Light and darkness. Saved and unsaved. A person claiming to be sinless, never having sinned in their life, is clearly not saved. They must confess their sins, or rather sinful state ("come in agreement with") in order to be forgiven ("he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness"). Evangelists are ministering on the streets and have a list of the ten commandments and question people whether they have broken any of the commandments, and every time the person confesses they have. They end up realizing they have sinned against a holy God, and are indeed a sinner in need of God's forgiveness. They come in agreement with God about their sin, and through the Gospel, see their need for Christ.

This is the way 1 John 1:9 should be understood, going to the Greek and looking at the context. Please notice in 1 John 1:2 there is another solution, in fact the only solution, to sin in the believer's life. Our Advocate with the Father, our High Priest. The propitiation for our sins. Jesus Christ, the righteous who shed His blood once for sin, for all time (Read Hebrews).

It doesn't even make sense to say sin confession grants forgiveness, when we have in 1 John 1 (and 2) three different methods of dealing with sin then. The first being walking in the light (1 John 1:7), the blood of Jesus Christ His Son will cleanse you of all sin, followed by this idea of sin confession for forgiveness (1 John 1:9; a misapplication of the verse) and then last but not least, Jesus as our propitiation for our sins and being our Advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1-2).

The first and last are united, in that walking in the light is not walking perfectly (sinlessness) but being in Christ (the polarity of darkness and light, see John 8:12). In fact, let me post the verse.

John 8:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

We are in the light that is Christ, who gives us eternal life, and being in Christ we are cleansed through His blood of all sin, and if we do sin, as 1 John 2 says, we have an Advocate with the Father (Jesus Christ, the righteous). The propitiation for our sins. Look even further in 1 John 2, and you'll see it stated even further about the reality of our sins being forgiven, saying "your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake" (1 John 2:12).

There is no sin in the believer's life that needs a seeking out of forgiveness from God because it would defeat the purpose of Christ being nailed to the cross, dying and resurrecting, and then His ministry as He ascended as our High Priest with His blood (being the sacrifice for sin).

Hebrews 9:23-28 King James Version (KJV)
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Jesus has granted us the remission of sin, in its entirety. Please notice the role of the priests to deal with sin daily, and how they ministered and offered sacrifices daily but Jesus Christ, our High Priest, doesn't have to do daily sacrifice to deal with our "daily" sin.

Hebrews 10:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

He would've suffered since the foundation of the world if our sins, all of them, didn't get remitted because He is the sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 9:26). Any sin that we may commit is taken care of through the blood of Christ. This is covenant based (Hebrews 10:15-18). We are in the new covenant. Where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
I am saying that remission, and forgiveness go hand in hand, which are tied up in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That is what I am referring to as interchangeable. Even so, the Gospel itself is a message of reconciliation that happens as a result of Christ's sacrifice that grants us forgiveness/remission of sin.

1 John 1:9 is not about keeping a tally, or list, of sins that you then bring before the Father (seeking forgiveness). Look at the Greek for confession. It literally means to "come in agreement with", and contextually you'll see that in the previous verse (and following verse) it says that a person claiming to be sinless is not of the truth, calling God a liar. So, then, what an individual is doing is admitting that they have sin, are a sinner. This isn't about keeping short accounts with God, confessing one's individual sins, and seeking God's forgiveness or else.

This is like the law of polarity, hot and cold, on and off. Light and darkness. Saved and unsaved. A person claiming to be sinless, never having sinned in their life, is clearly not saved. They must confess their sins, or rather sinful state ("come in agreement with") in order to be forgiven ("he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness"). Evangelists are ministering on the streets and have a list of the ten commandments and question people whether they have broken any of the commandments, and every time the person confesses they have. They end up realizing they have sinned against a holy God, and are indeed a sinner in need of God's forgiveness. They come in agreement with God about their sin, and through the Gospel, see their need for Christ.

This is the way 1 John 1:9 should be understood, going to the Greek and looking at the context. Please notice in 1 John 1:2 there is another solution, in fact the only solution, to sin in the believer's life. Our Advocate with the Father, our High Priest. The propitiation for our sins. Jesus Christ, the righteous who shed His blood once for sin, for all time (Read Hebrews).

It doesn't even make sense to say sin confession grants forgiveness, when we have in 1 John 1 (and 2) three different methods of dealing with sin then. The first being walking in the light (1 John 1:7), the blood of Jesus Christ His Son will cleanse you of all sin, followed by this idea of sin confession for forgiveness (1 John 1:9; a misapplication of the verse) and then last but not least, Jesus as our propitiation for our sins and being our Advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1-2).

The first and last are united, in that walking in the light is not walking perfectly (sinlessness) but being in Christ (the polarity of darkness and light, see John 8:12). In fact, let me post the verse.

John 8:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

We are in the light that is Christ, who gives us eternal life, and being in Christ we are cleansed through His blood of all sin, and if we do sin, as 1 John 2 says, we have an Advocate with the Father (Jesus Christ, the righteous). The propitiation for our sins. Look even further in 1 John 2, and you'll see it stated even further about the reality of our sins being forgiven, saying "your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake" (1 John 2:12).

There is no sin in the believer's life that needs a seeking out of forgiveness from God because it would defeat the purpose of Christ being nailed to the cross, dying and resurrecting, and then His ministry as He ascended as our High Priest with His blood (being the sacrifice for sin).

Hebrews 9:23-28 King James Version (KJV)
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Jesus has granted us the remission of sin, in its entirety. Please notice the role of the priests to deal with sin daily, and how they ministered and offered sacrifices daily but Jesus Christ, our High Priest, doesn't have to do daily sacrifice to deal with our "daily" sin.

Hebrews 10:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

He would've suffered since the foundation of the world if our sins, all of them, didn't get remitted because He is the sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 9:26). Any sin that we may commit is taken care of through the blood of Christ. This is covenant based (Hebrews 10:15-18). We are in the new covenant. Where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
That confession in (1 John 1:9) produces forgiveness from God. Thus you are confessing to be forgiven.

And you never said if you asked God for forgiveness when you confess your sins.

Quantrill
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
83
Well, you won't prove your case with Scripture because it's not there. I am glad to see that you are spending time in Scripture though.

Nevertheless OSAS is true, but Free Grace Theology is a lie.

That is what you are dealing with and talking about churches teaching. It's Free Grace Theology -- many are deceived by this error and there are many popular speakers who preach it.
I suggest you are in error. I refer you to a list of verses on the subject of grace. Here is a pointer to this list of verses. It includes verses that grace is a FREE gift from God.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/grace
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
83
I am saying that remission, and forgiveness go hand in hand, which are tied up in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That is what I am referring to as interchangeable. Even so, the Gospel itself is a message of reconciliation that happens as a result of Christ's sacrifice that grants us forgiveness/remission of sin.

1 John 1:9 is not about keeping a tally, or list, of sins that you then bring before the Father (seeking forgiveness). Look at the Greek for confession. It literally means to "come in agreement with", and contextually you'll see that in the previous verse (and following verse) it says that a person claiming to be sinless is not of the truth, calling God a liar. So, then, what an individual is doing is admitting that they have sin, are a sinner. This isn't about keeping short accounts with God, confessing one's individual sins, and seeking God's forgiveness or else.

This is like the law of polarity, hot and cold, on and off. Light and darkness. Saved and unsaved. A person claiming to be sinless, never having sinned in their life, is clearly not saved. They must confess their sins, or rather sinful state ("come in agreement with") in order to be forgiven ("he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness"). Evangelists are ministering on the streets and have a list of the ten commandments and question people whether they have broken any of the commandments, and every time the person confesses they have. They end up realizing they have sinned against a holy God, and are indeed a sinner in need of God's forgiveness. They come in agreement with God about their sin, and through the Gospel, see their need for Christ.

This is the way 1 John 1:9 should be understood, going to the Greek and looking at the context. Please notice in 1 John 1:2 there is another solution, in fact the only solution, to sin in the believer's life. Our Advocate with the Father, our High Priest. The propitiation for our sins. Jesus Christ, the righteous who shed His blood once for sin, for all time (Read Hebrews).

It doesn't even make sense to say sin confession grants forgiveness, when we have in 1 John 1 (and 2) three different methods of dealing with sin then. The first being walking in the light (1 John 1:7), the blood of Jesus Christ His Son will cleanse you of all sin, followed by this idea of sin confession for forgiveness (1 John 1:9; a misapplication of the verse) and then last but not least, Jesus as our propitiation for our sins and being our Advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1-2).

The first and last are united, in that walking in the light is not walking perfectly (sinlessness) but being in Christ (the polarity of darkness and light, see John 8:12). In fact, let me post the verse.

John 8:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

We are in the light that is Christ, who gives us eternal life, and being in Christ we are cleansed through His blood of all sin, and if we do sin, as 1 John 2 says, we have an Advocate with the Father (Jesus Christ, the righteous). The propitiation for our sins. Look even further in 1 John 2, and you'll see it stated even further about the reality of our sins being forgiven, saying "your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake" (1 John 2:12).

There is no sin in the believer's life that needs a seeking out of forgiveness from God because it would defeat the purpose of Christ being nailed to the cross, dying and resurrecting, and then His ministry as He ascended as our High Priest with His blood (being the sacrifice for sin).

Hebrews 9:23-28 King James Version (KJV)
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Jesus has granted us the remission of sin, in its entirety. Please notice the role of the priests to deal with sin daily, and how they ministered and offered sacrifices daily but Jesus Christ, our High Priest, doesn't have to do daily sacrifice to deal with our "daily" sin.

Hebrews 10:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

He would've suffered since the foundation of the world if our sins, all of them, didn't get remitted because He is the sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 9:26). Any sin that we may commit is taken care of through the blood of Christ. This is covenant based (Hebrews 10:15-18). We are in the new covenant. Where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
I suggest to you that you use a modern translation instead of the now flawed 400 year old KJV. English like all languages changes over time. Here are some issues with the KJV translation. Here is a list of many of the problems with KJV.

KJV Issues
For example, because of the changes in the English language, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today. These include the following nuggets that you will find scattered here and there:

Almug
Algum
Charashim
Chode
Cracknels
Gat
Habergeon
Hosen
Kab
Ligure
Neesed
Nusings
Ouches
ring-straked
sycamyne
trow
wimples, ….

The King James translators also translated some animal names into animals that in fact we now have pretty good reason for thinking don’t actually exist:

unicorn (Deut. 33:17)
satyr (Isa 13:21);
dragon (Deut 32:33) (for serpent)
cockatrice (Iswa 11:8),
arrowsnake (Gen 49:11, in the margin).

Moreover,, there are phrases that simply don’t make sense any more to modern readers: Phrases that no longer make sense:

ouches of gold (Exod. 28:11);
collops of fat (Job 15:25);
naughty figs (Jer 24:2);
ien with (Jer. 3:2);
the ground is chapt (Jer 14:4);
brazen wall” (Jer 15:20);
rentest thy face (Jer. 4:30);
urrain of the cattle (Exod. 9:2);

And there are whole sentences that are confusing at best, virtually indecipherable (or humorous)

And Jacob sod pottage (Gen 25:29)
And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke (Exoc. 19:18)
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (Ps. 5:6)
I trow not (Luke 17:9)
We do you to wit of the grace of God (2 Cor. 8:1)
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels (2 Cor. 6:12)
He who letteth will let (2 Thes 2:7)
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd (Eccles. 12:11)


Other sentences make sense, but would today be considered somewhat problematic – at least for the sacred Scripture. My favorite is the one that refers to a man who: “Pisseth against the wall:…. 1 Sam 25:22, 34, I Kings 14:10!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
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KJV Issues
Here is a list of sites discussing the problems with the translation problems due to the fact its 400 years old. It was a good translation 400 years ago but language changes over time. A long term example is Latin became Italian over 2000 years.

KJV Issues

https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/

https://newrepublic.com/article/107222/making-it-new

http://www.bibletexts.com/topics/kjv.htm

http://www.equip.org/article/is-your-modern-translation-corrupt/

http://www.hickoryhammockbaptist.org/kjva1.html

https://www.gotquestions.org/different-gospel.html

The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible: An Interview with Mark Ward
Jonathan Petersen
March 13, 2018

https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2...pJobID=1362532267&spReportId=MTM2MjUzMjI2NwS2
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,715
113
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Wonder what that cutting off means?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
83
Do you mean that God has to continue in His kindness otherwise He will be cut-off?

Do you mean that God has to obey His commands for YOU?

Does God keep you in His power so He can serve YOU?

Did He not give you the POWER yet?

...But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8

...Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits,to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,and to still another the interpretation of tongues.11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:7-11

...As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 Corinthians 6:1, Jude 1:4

...Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
In order to understand selected verses I always want to put them in context.

Ingrafted Branches
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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So how many times do you promise to God to not do that sin ever again, only to do it again? If you're looking for rest, for confidence in His presence, you must understand the forgiveness you already have in Christ.
And here is the heresy in the above; Don't worry when you sin, don't even consider it, don't repent, don't obey Scripture, don't ask for forgiveness.

Just go on in presumptuous sin.

That isn't freedom, it is bondage, (2 Peter 2:19) self-deception, heresy, presumption, a denial of the true Gospel, the true Christian life and the testimony of Scripture itself.

This is none other than the character Presumption whom Christian met on his way to the Celestial City. He, and his false teaching are to be rejected:

"Now, what gave this third man who lay in fetters a little beyond the cross the name of Presumption was just this, that he had been at the cross with his past sin, and had left the cross to commit the same sin at the first opportunity. Presumption presumed upon his pardon. He presumed upon the abounding grace of God. He presumed upon the blood of Christ. He was so high on the Atonement, that he held that the gospel was not sufficiently preached to him, unless not past sin only and present, but also all future sin was atoned for on the tree before it was committed." Bunyan Characters - Alexander Whyte
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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Indeed, you confess your sin unto God and then never do it again. That is what true repentance is all about, never doing that particular sin again.
Oh, so repentance = sinless perfection! Gotcha!