examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please
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L
Report of Modern Speaking in Tongues Phenomenon:
They Speak With Other Tongues
During my research I was in correspondence with one of the few surviving eyewitnesses to the Azusa Street revival. He is Mr. Harvey McAlister of Springfield, Missouri, who wrote me that he had visited the Mission himself many times. He had one especially interesting incident to relate:
“My brother, Robert E. McAlister, now deceased, was in Los Angeles when the following incident took place and he reported it to me. The girl, whom I knew intimately, and I heard the incident also from her parents, was Kathleen Scott.
“This … took place in what is known as Old Azusa Street Mission. People traveled from every part of the world to investigate what was happening there. There was a large auditorium with an ‘Upper Room,’ upstairs. The place was open day and night for several years, with preaching services two or three times daily, and people in prayer in the Upper Room day and night. At the close of the preaching, crowds would retire to the Upper Room to pray. When time came for preaching, someone would ring a bell and all would come downstairs for the services.
“Kathleen was in the Upper Room, teenage, at this particular time. A man entered the building, the service now being in process, and hearing people pray, he ventured upstairs to the prayer room. The moment he entered, Kathleen, moved by the Spirit, arose and pointed to the man as he stood at the head of the stairway, and spoke in a language other than her own for several minutes.
“The ringing of the bell, calling the people to the preaching service, interrupted. All the people arose and made their way to the stairway. The man, as Kathleen approached the stairs, took her arm and directed her downstairs to the speaker’s desk and waited until order was restored in the auditorium. Then he spoke.
“ ‘I am a Jew, and I came to this city to investigate this speaking in tongues. No person in this city knows my first or my last name, as I am here under an assumed name. No one in this city knows my occupation, or anything about me. I go to hear preachers for the purpose of taking their sermons apart, and using them in lecturing against the Christian religion.
“ ‘This girl, as I entered the room, started speaking in the Hebrew language. She told me my first name and my last name, and she told me why I was in the city and what my occupation was in life, and then she called upon me to repent. She told me things about my life which it would be impossible for any person in this city to know.’
“Then [Mr. McAlister’s letter concludes], the man dropped to his knees and cried and prayed as though his heart would break.”
Harvey McAlister
Endnote
1. From John L. Sherrill, They speak With Other Tongues (New York: McGraw Hill, 1964), 41,42.
They Speak With Other Tongues
During my research I was in correspondence with one of the few surviving eyewitnesses to the Azusa Street revival. He is Mr. Harvey McAlister of Springfield, Missouri, who wrote me that he had visited the Mission himself many times. He had one especially interesting incident to relate:
“My brother, Robert E. McAlister, now deceased, was in Los Angeles when the following incident took place and he reported it to me. The girl, whom I knew intimately, and I heard the incident also from her parents, was Kathleen Scott.
“This … took place in what is known as Old Azusa Street Mission. People traveled from every part of the world to investigate what was happening there. There was a large auditorium with an ‘Upper Room,’ upstairs. The place was open day and night for several years, with preaching services two or three times daily, and people in prayer in the Upper Room day and night. At the close of the preaching, crowds would retire to the Upper Room to pray. When time came for preaching, someone would ring a bell and all would come downstairs for the services.
“Kathleen was in the Upper Room, teenage, at this particular time. A man entered the building, the service now being in process, and hearing people pray, he ventured upstairs to the prayer room. The moment he entered, Kathleen, moved by the Spirit, arose and pointed to the man as he stood at the head of the stairway, and spoke in a language other than her own for several minutes.
“The ringing of the bell, calling the people to the preaching service, interrupted. All the people arose and made their way to the stairway. The man, as Kathleen approached the stairs, took her arm and directed her downstairs to the speaker’s desk and waited until order was restored in the auditorium. Then he spoke.
“ ‘I am a Jew, and I came to this city to investigate this speaking in tongues. No person in this city knows my first or my last name, as I am here under an assumed name. No one in this city knows my occupation, or anything about me. I go to hear preachers for the purpose of taking their sermons apart, and using them in lecturing against the Christian religion.
“ ‘This girl, as I entered the room, started speaking in the Hebrew language. She told me my first name and my last name, and she told me why I was in the city and what my occupation was in life, and then she called upon me to repent. She told me things about my life which it would be impossible for any person in this city to know.’
“Then [Mr. McAlister’s letter concludes], the man dropped to his knees and cried and prayed as though his heart would break.”
Harvey McAlister
Endnote
1. From John L. Sherrill, They speak With Other Tongues (New York: McGraw Hill, 1964), 41,42.
A
thing is i knew that scripture was not understood correctly.
But from standard claims from tongues folks is that its private
talk to God only that satan and his crew cant hear.
Anyway yes checkmate....at least in the wrong theology.
And i said it after you said only one angelic language.
smile bro.....its sorta funny
But from standard claims from tongues folks is that its private
talk to God only that satan and his crew cant hear.
Anyway yes checkmate....at least in the wrong theology.
And i said it after you said only one angelic language.
smile bro.....its sorta funny
Wow!
Way to mix scripture.
Who said he wasn't?
Your picking and choosing verses that don't even analogically fit your argument.
You asked where Paul told Timothy to use the gifts given him and I showed you.
Now you say the laying on of hands represents the ordination.
Either that or you are mixing scripture.
Of course Timothy was ordained, I answered that. Your quoted scripture didn't answer the "GIFT GIVEN HIM BY THE LAYING ON OF HANDS".
Way to mix scripture.
Who said he wasn't?
Your picking and choosing verses that don't even analogically fit your argument.
You asked where Paul told Timothy to use the gifts given him and I showed you.
Now you say the laying on of hands represents the ordination.
Either that or you are mixing scripture.
Of course Timothy was ordained, I answered that. Your quoted scripture didn't answer the "GIFT GIVEN HIM BY THE LAYING ON OF HANDS".
oh....you....are....reaching.
COME ON!
i showed you they were JEWS at jerusalem, you went quiet on that.
i showed ya this:
Acts 13
Barnabas and Saul Sent Off
1Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger,a Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a member of the court of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off.
laid hands on them.
they was already saved, man.
COME ON!
i showed you they were JEWS at jerusalem, you went quiet on that.
i showed ya this:
Acts 13
Barnabas and Saul Sent Off
1Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger,a Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a member of the court of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off.
laid hands on them.
they was already saved, man.
bud:
Acts 13
Barnabas and Saul Sent Off
1Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger,a Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a member of the court of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off.
this doesn't happen any more.
we no longer need the gifts.
we study and learn and teach.
the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures are able to save and perfect.
Acts 13
Barnabas and Saul Sent Off
1Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger,a Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a member of the court of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off.
this doesn't happen any more.
we no longer need the gifts.
we study and learn and teach.
the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures are able to save and perfect.
U
Rick ... I genuinely like you as I'm certain most or all of us here do, including Zone, Sarah and others etc. I'm sure the same can be said for the other proponents here of modern day tongues as well, although we'd all have to admit to a deep sense of frustration with each other at times. To be expected, given the nature and seriousness of the topic. That said, I press on. If there must be different "angelic" dialects (that is what you're surmising, correct ?), then logic can only conclude that there must be more than one angelic language .... because this is the only thing your proposed summation can mean. Now let's examine where this type of uncertain speculation can take us. When Lucifer was recruiting his own followers for rebellion, was he limited only to those angels who spoke his dialect ? Can we and/or should we reasonably conclude that the angels in heaven (in God's presence, no less) "don't or might not understand each other" because they speak different angelic dialects (maybe ?) ?? Does any of that make sense to you ? Do you see where and how far we can and have to go with this stuff Rick in order to make our reasonings and beliefs sensible ? I'm not criticizing you Rick. Many today believe as you do. But I am 100% certain that your understanding is wrong. And I can't in good conscience before God say anything other than this.
I Timothy 4:14
"Neglect not the GIFT that is IN you,
which was given by the laying on of hands of the presbytery."
- -So you are saying this is ordination?
Men don't ordain other men, God does that.
Who ordained Paul to be an Apostle? - GOD.
Who called Moses? - GOD.
Who called Peter? - GOD.
Who changed a man's name from Abram to Abraham? - GOD.
And on and on...........
In fact, show me ONE person who was used by God in the Bible who wasn't called by Him?
Stephen? - - - How many other deacons did so many miracles? - (Maybe the Apostles gave him that ability too, wonder why they didn't give it to the others?)
"Neglect not the GIFT that is IN you,
which was given by the laying on of hands of the presbytery."
- -So you are saying this is ordination?
Men don't ordain other men, God does that.
Who ordained Paul to be an Apostle? - GOD.
Who called Moses? - GOD.
Who called Peter? - GOD.
Who changed a man's name from Abram to Abraham? - GOD.
And on and on...........
In fact, show me ONE person who was used by God in the Bible who wasn't called by Him?
Stephen? - - - How many other deacons did so many miracles? - (Maybe the Apostles gave him that ability too, wonder why they didn't give it to the others?)
Let's take another look at our chapter (which is about LOVE):
1 Corinthians 13
The Way of Love
1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,a but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;b 6it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
...
this is typical of Paul's writing:
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
did he ever claim to ave all prophetic powers?
NO. he included himself with those who were receiving PARTIAL things.
did he ever claim to have all faith, enough to remove mountains?
NO. he begged for his thorn to be removed 3 times
did he give away all he had?
i don't know....there's no record of him walking around naked begging.
and did he give his body to be burned?
NO.
not that we are aware of.
so.....what could he have mean by "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels"?
is it the same hyperbole as he used elsewhere?
Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally. Hyperboles are exaggerations to create emphasis or effect
look at what he does here:
Romans 8
35Who can separate us from the love of Christ?
Can affliction or anguish or persecution
or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
36As it is written:
Because of You
we are being put to death all day long;
we are counted as sheep to be slaughtered.
37No, in all these things we are more than victorious
through Him who loved us.
38For I am persuaded that not even death or life,
angels or rulers,
things present or things to come, hostile powers,
39height or depth, or any other created thing
will have the power to separate us
from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord!
this is not exactly the same, but look at how far he goes to show how persuaded he is that nothing can separate us from our salvation:
not even death or life
angels or rulers
things present
things to come
hostile powers
height or depth
or any other created thing
height or depth?
1 Corinthians 13
The Way of Love
1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,a but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;b 6it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
...
this is typical of Paul's writing:
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
did he ever claim to ave all prophetic powers?
NO. he included himself with those who were receiving PARTIAL things.
did he ever claim to have all faith, enough to remove mountains?
NO. he begged for his thorn to be removed 3 times
did he give away all he had?
i don't know....there's no record of him walking around naked begging.
and did he give his body to be burned?
NO.
not that we are aware of.
so.....what could he have mean by "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels"?
is it the same hyperbole as he used elsewhere?
Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally. Hyperboles are exaggerations to create emphasis or effect
look at what he does here:
Romans 8
35Who can separate us from the love of Christ?
Can affliction or anguish or persecution
or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
36As it is written:
Because of You
we are being put to death all day long;
we are counted as sheep to be slaughtered.
37No, in all these things we are more than victorious
through Him who loved us.
38For I am persuaded that not even death or life,
angels or rulers,
things present or things to come, hostile powers,
39height or depth, or any other created thing
will have the power to separate us
from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord!
this is not exactly the same, but look at how far he goes to show how persuaded he is that nothing can separate us from our salvation:
not even death or life
angels or rulers
things present
things to come
hostile powers
height or depth
or any other created thing
height or depth?
Joshua brought back a good report (one of the only two that did), when spies were sent into Canaan.
God gave Joshua a different spirit,
and Mose saw it quick. He spend 80 days in the presence of the Shekinah glory.
(Something might have rubbed off.)
Other than that it's just ascribing captains and generals as every leader does.
God gave Joshua a different spirit,
and Mose saw it quick. He spend 80 days in the presence of the Shekinah glory.
(Something might have rubbed off.)
Other than that it's just ascribing captains and generals as every leader does.
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U
Paul was God's chosen messenger to the gentiles. He spoke both the words and the earthly languages God gave him to speak to us in order to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ. Never a word of today's gibberish spoken by Paul or anyone else for that matter recorded anywhere. Because this was neither his message nor his context. Like Zone and others have said repeatedly .... tongues (earthly languages unknown but yet spoken) were a sign for the unbelieving Jews.
Men don't ordain other men, God does that.
well, today men are ordained after proper training and testing, and if their lives are fit for the office.
presumably they have a calling to become a teacher or pastor.
at the foundation they had to have seen Jesus, or be ordained by one who had seen Jesus.
Paul was the last.
though fallible men, they were infallible in their offices and writings and authority. you know that.
no one has that infallible authority today.
Who ordained Paul to be an Apostle?
Jesus
here Paul received everything all at once
Acts 9
10Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” 11And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, 12and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” 13But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 14And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 15But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 16For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 17So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 19and taking food, he was strengthened.
Who called Moses? - GOD.
True...face to face.
just like the disciples who walked with Jesus.
Who called Peter?
Jesus
John 1:42
And he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, "You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas" (which, when translated, is Peter).
.
Who changed a man's name from Abram to Abraham? - GOD.
True.
In fact, show me ONE person who was used by God in the Bible who wasn't called by Him?
well, what does that have to do with Pentecostalism today?
only a few on the fringes claim to have gone to heaven and had convos with God.
Stephen? - - - How many other deacons did so many miracles? - (Maybe the Apostles gave him that ability too, wonder why they didn't give it to the others?)
Acts 6
The Choosing of the Seven
1In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Hellenistic Jewsa among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. 2So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, “It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. 3Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them 4and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.”
5This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. 6They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them.
"Forbid not tongues."
I Cor. 14:4 - "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself...." - (Hows that for translation? WHO ARE YOU SPEAKING TO? WHO IS THE SPIRIT WITNESSING TO?......if not you?)
- :5 "I would ye all spake with tongues..."
I see,.........Paul went into every synagogue and started preaching,.....and what came out were the very words of the almighty! - (Though he didn't get a bit of it)
You speak of the gift of tongues that you say Paul already knew. - - - - Please go back over his missionary journeys.
Each of those places had their own language.
I Cor. 14:4 - "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself...." - (Hows that for translation? WHO ARE YOU SPEAKING TO? WHO IS THE SPIRIT WITNESSING TO?......if not you?)
- :5 "I would ye all spake with tongues..."
I see,.........Paul went into every synagogue and started preaching,.....and what came out were the very words of the almighty! - (Though he didn't get a bit of it)
You speak of the gift of tongues that you say Paul already knew. - - - - Please go back over his missionary journeys.
Each of those places had their own language.
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