Explain God's apparent change from the Old Testament to the New Testament

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#41
"It's all artsy. Of course, parts of it are historical fact, but the whole thing is artsy."

It's all artsy? The fall was artsy? The captivity of the Jews was artsy? Christ death on Golgotha was artsy? If so, what isn't artsy? And I'm not sure how it ties in with God changing, unless you mean the poetic expression give the appearance of change.
 
H

hampsterisk

Guest
#42
The only way we can learn God is by having his holy spirit, praying, reading and meditate on his glory and goodness. not asking people about the will of God. To ask why God did this or did that is out of our place.

Romans 9:18-23 KJV

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,...

Its ok to ask and learn about events in the bible...but to question why God did this and that shows we doubt his plan.
You would agree, then, that it is wrong for anyone to ask,"Why did God send manna to the Israelites?".
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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0
#43
Are you saying we should still be following all the Old Testament Laws?
When the Jews told the Gentiles they had to become Jews to be included in God's Kingdom, God said absolutely not. Did not have to be circumcised, nor follow the food laws. Is that that you mean? If you are talking about following God principles, with the laws God gave to show us how to follow the principle of love, then YES, absolutely. I am no authority, God is. God tells me what I should believe.

But God has never told me that I may not worship him by such as following food laws. I have been told that if I do that, I will go to hell, but I don't think that directive comes from God.
 
E

enoch1nine

Guest
#44
unless you mean the poetic expression give the appearance of change.
Rather, the misinterpretation of the poetic expression gives the appearance of change.

The fall was artsy? - A real fall, but the trees and the serpent are indeed artsy. Unless people believe a real snake talked.
The captivity of the Jews was artsy? - A real captivity, real plagues, but what are the locusts, flies, water turned to blood representing that has an effect on our correction?
Christ death on Golgotha was artsy? - A real death, but what are the nails, just there to make us say ouch?, have you dealt with the two thieves arguing inside you, etc.

God is a master artist. He paints with epic people, places, and phenomenon.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#45
Rather, the misinterpretation of the poetic expression gives the appearance of change.

The fall was artsy? - A real fall, but the trees and the serpent are indeed artsy. Unless people believe a real snake talked.
The captivity of the Jews was artsy? - A real captivity, real plagues, but what are the locusts, flies, water turned to blood representing that has an effect on our correction?
Christ death on Golgotha was artsy? - A real death, but what are the nails, just there to make us say ouch?, have you dealt with the two thieves arguing inside you, etc.

God is a master artist. He paints with epic people, places, and phenomenon.
so what was it that Adam and Eve partook of if not a real tree that "it was good for food", ''it was pleasant to the eyes", ''and desirous to make one wise"? Gen 3:6
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#46
Rather, the misinterpretation of the poetic expression gives the appearance of change.

The fall was artsy? - A real fall, but the trees and the serpent are indeed artsy. Unless people believe a real snake talked.
The captivity of the Jews was artsy? - A real captivity, real plagues, but what are the locusts, flies, water turned to blood representing that has an effect on our correction?
Christ death on Golgotha was artsy? - A real death, but what are the nails, just there to make us say ouch?, have you dealt with the two thieves arguing inside you, etc.

God is a master artist. He paints with epic people, places, and phenomenon.
Yes, a snake talked and them bones, them bones, them drrrrrrry bones really did walk about.


Ezekiel 37

The hand of the Lord was on me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. 2 He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. 3 He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”

I said, “Sovereign Lord, you alone know.”

4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 This is what the Sovereign Lord says to these bones: I will make breath[a] enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.’”

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.


9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.’” 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.

11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”
 
E

enoch1nine

Guest
#47
so what was it that Adam and Eve partook of if not a real tree that "it was good for food", ''it was pleasant to the eyes", ''and desirous to make one wise"? Gen 3:6
They didn't know what heartbreak was. But they had had it described to them, and what causes it. For Eve, it wasn't enough to know about it and not know it. That is, she noted that in order to understand evil fully, one must partake in it. Additionally, that doing so should theoretically make her as smart as the God that already understood it. This is why harlotry is one of the most major and continuous themes in scripture, because it was her original sin. She used sex to control Adam. He retaliated with "warfare", he performed some violent act of conquest, probably forced himself on her.
This is why slavery is the other major theme in scripture.

The reason it is presented figuratively for us, is because if it was presented as a literal story about sexual transgression, we wouldn't learn anything by it because we would stop at the physical thinking level, as if it were simply a story, and not understand the inner effect it had on them.

We know that a talking snake doesn't make literal sense, and there's no sin in eating a literal fruit. But if you believe the snake is that moment when you reason between right and wrong, instead believing that God allowed some third party devil entity to mess up His paradise, it makes God look a bit innocent and prevents us from scapegoating our own responsibility on some external force. If fruit was figurative when Jesus talked about it, it was figurative in the scriptures He studied.
Both trees were the same tree. It's your motive in eating from it that makes life or transgression.

If that isn't the case, then the simple act of any disobedience in order to "eat" from the "knowledge of good and evil" would suffice, like eating a literal fruit you were told not to for whatever undisclosed reason. If it was a literal tree, that would be good enough for me.
But since the punishment always fits the crime, their reaction to nakedness and the punishments based on fertility pretty much spill the beans on what they did.

None of God's word makes sense unless we do this
"Repent at my reproof, behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you."

Here's the same poetic snake from the garden, "Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil."
Remove your foot, after you have bruised it's head.

Man has to plow the earth to get it to grow. Man has to dig under the surface of the words. Man has to labor in bed to "know" as the biblical term goes, to experience that is, that his wife has been satisfied, etc.

And God bless you.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#48
They didn't know what heartbreak was. But they had had it described to them, and what causes it. For Eve, it wasn't enough to know about it and not know it. That is, she noted that in order to understand evil fully, one must partake in it. Additionally, that doing so should theoretically make her as smart as the God that already understood it. This is why harlotry is one of the most major and continuous themes in scripture, because it was her original sin. She used sex to control Adam. He retaliated with "warfare", he performed some violent act of conquest, probably forced himself on her.
This is why slavery is the other major theme in scripture.

The reason it is presented figuratively for us, is because if it was presented as a literal story about sexual transgression, we wouldn't learn anything by it because we would stop at the physical thinking level, as if it were simply a story, and not understand the inner effect it had on them.

We know that a talking snake doesn't make literal sense, and there's no sin in eating a literal fruit. But if you believe the snake is that moment when you reason between right and wrong, instead believing that God allowed some third party devil entity to mess up His paradise, it makes God look a bit innocent and prevents us from scapegoating our own responsibility on some external force. If fruit was figurative when Jesus talked about it, it was figurative in the scriptures He studied.
Both trees were the same tree. It's your motive in eating from it that makes life or transgression.

If that isn't the case, then the simple act of any disobedience in order to "eat" from the "knowledge of good and evil" would suffice, like eating a literal fruit you were told not to for whatever undisclosed reason. If it was a literal tree, that would be good enough for me.
But since the punishment always fits the crime, their reaction to nakedness and the punishments based on fertility pretty much spill the beans on what they did.

None of God's word makes sense unless we do this
"Repent at my reproof, behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you."

Here's the same poetic snake from the garden, "Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil."
Remove your foot, after you have bruised it's head.

Man has to plow the earth to get it to grow. Man has to dig under the surface of the words. Man has to labor in bed to "know" as the biblical term goes, to experience that is, that his wife has been satisfied, etc.

And God bless you.
Like I said, when one starts allegorizing Scripture, one can make it say just about anything one wants it to. I take an historical-literal-grammatical approach so I guess we are on two different planes...or spaceships or whatever allegory applies.