Explanation of Isaiah 45:7

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Nov 22, 2015
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#21
We now that God does not send tornados and storms to try to kill people by looking at the life of Christ. Whenever a storm came to try to destroy the disciples - Jesus rebuked the storm and spoke to it. Jesus was not fighting against His Father in doing this. We live in a fallen world and is looking to be redeemed just like we have been.

We can see in Job where satan used a natural source to bring destruction to Job's children.

( the discussion of Job is an entirely different topic and for another thread - I only used this example when talking about evil disaster as in Isaiah 45:7 in context with the scriptures around it. )
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#22
We now that God does not send tornados and storms to try to kill people by looking at the life of Christ. Whenever a storm came to try to destroy the disciples - Jesus rebuked the storm and spoke to it. Jesus was not fighting against His Father in doing this. We live in a fallen world and is looking to be redeemed just like we have been.

We can see in Job where satan used a natural source to bring destruction to Job's children.

( the discussion of Job is an entirely different topic and for another thread - I only used this example when talking about evil disaster as in Isaiah 45:7 in context with the scriptures around it. )
Ah...I don't think Jesus was fighting against His Father by rebuking the waves and the storm...that might require some more thought...
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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#24
In reference to Darlene's post about people turning to Him in the midst of calamities, and for example I'll say a tsunami. Then what about the ones who perish during these natural calamities? THEY don't get to turn to God. :(
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#25
Oh, wait, I read too carelessly - you said "was NOT." :)
You were right in both of your posts...:)

Everything we believe in our "perception" of God needs to come first through the direct revelation that Jesus showed us.

Jesus said "If you seen Me - you have seen the Father". Hebrews 1:1-3 says that Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of the Father.

Jesus is perfect theology - meaning whatever He reveals to be true of God - is true.

If we want to see any attribute of God we need to look at it through Jesus which includes Isaiah 45:7.

Did Jesus "create evil" in a sense? I say Yes! but in this context only = by His presence and the words He spoke and what came about in some cases from these words and actions. Evil did come forth.

He was the "Julia Roberts fashion creator of His day" - if you will....( sorry for this lame example... :rolleyes:)
 
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Nov 12, 2015
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#26
We can't know what happens as a person is dying and whether or not they turn to God in their final moments. We have to leave that to God.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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#27
Hey you turned me into a celebrity for 15 seconds.. lol :p
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#28
Hey you turned me into a celebrity for 15 seconds.. lol :p
LOL..I just love what you are wearing today "Julia".


...but I'm sure that it would "create evil" for me if I wore it around my Marine buddies.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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#29
Well, I'm wearing pajamas. A tee shirt and sweats.. Don't think that would create evil for anybody..hahahah


LOL..I just love what you are wearing today "Julia".


...but I'm sure that it would "create evil" for me if I wore it around my Marine buddies.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#30
Context is always key. In Isaiah 45 God is talking about using Cyrus (v1) to bring about calamity (v7). From vv 1 thru 7 God by using cyrus is demonstrating that he is sovereign over everything.

Using cyrus, someone who does not now God, God demonstrates 'That people may know from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me (6).

Gods will and power are behind all things that happen, does that mean he is the author of evil? the answer is no. However he will use the cunning guil of evil to fulfill his purpose (cf.Isaiah 10:5-6). Did Cyrus believe that it was the one true God who allowed him and had prophesied that he would use him? No! God used cyrus and his actions to fulfill his purpose in redemptive history.

All that Isaiah 45:7 means is that it is God who brings well being and he brings calamity... If anyone disagrees with this they haven't read the book of revelation. They haven't read Isaiah either.

Most none christians use these types of verses out of context, so no big suprise. As long as we are willing to study and learn how to answer. God does not create evil, but he will use those evil actions for his own purpose.

Genesis 50:20

You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#31
The Bible says we are in God,and we have our movement,and being,because of Him,which we can only function however we function,because God allows it,and created us.

Lucifer was created perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him.

God made Adam and Eve with an innocent nature in flesh,and if Satan did not tempt Eve,and she tempted Adam by showing she ate off the tree,then it would of never entered their mind to rebel.

God made man upright,but they sought out many inventions.

Everything that God created,and the angels,Adam and Eve,was made without sin,so God did not create evil outright,but because He gave the angels and humans a choice,evil comes from them,so they sinned as a result of God creating them,and giving them a choice,and they would of not been able to sin except God created them.

So God did not create evil outright,but good,but gave the angels and humans a choice,which some do evil,which they would of not been able to do if God did not create them,and give them a choice.

So God created evil because of their evil choices that they did because God gave them a choice,but God did not do it directly Himself,for God cannot be tempted with evil,neither does He tempt any person,and if He cannot be tempted with evil then He would not create evil directly,but the angels,and Adam and Eve,were only designed to good,but some of the angels did evil,and Adam and Eve sinned,and did evil,and what ever human does evil,which we all have until we are saved.

Evil came about because God created all things,and gave them a choice,but God did not create evil directly,for it came from the fallen angels,and the disobedient humans.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#32
We now that God does not send tornados and storms to try to kill people
by looking at the life of Christ.
[GOD is in control] of the weather


-for blessings


14That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season,
the first rain and the latter rain,that thou mayest gather in thy
corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

-for punishment


7And also I have withholden the rain from you, when there were
yet three months to the harvest: and I caused it to rain upon one
city, and caused it not to rain upon another city: one piece was
rained upon, and the piece whereupon it rained not withered.


-for the day of battle and war

22Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast
thou seen the treasures of the hail, 23Which I have reserved
against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not
at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind
and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#33
[GOD is in control] of the weather


-for blessings


14That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season,
the first rain and the latter rain,that thou mayest gather in thy
corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

-for punishment


7And also I have withholden the rain from you, when there were
yet three months to the harvest: and I caused it to rain upon one
city, and caused it not to rain upon another city: one piece was
rained upon, and the piece whereupon it rained not withered.


-for the day of battle and war

22Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast
thou seen the treasures of the hail, 23Which I have reserved
against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not
at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind
and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
Yes....God does have the ultimate say in the weather. We can see this when Jesus rebuked the wind that came to destroy the disciples.

God does not send storms to kill people. He does allow it to happen for various reasons of which most of which we will not understand until we stand before Him.

Whatever view or "perception" we have of God from the OT that does not line up with the revelation of Jesus while He as on this earth - it will be inaccurate.

All scripture must be filtered through the revelation of the Father through Jesus alone because He is the exact representation of the true nature of the Father.

Here is another consideration in interpreting OT scriptures. This was in the preface of Young's Analytical Concordance in the 1800's - under Hints to Bible Interpretations - 70 (b)

Active verbs in Hebrew are frequently used to express a "permission" and NOT a causative sense.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#34
Just before His death and resurrection—before His departure from the Mount of Olives
almost 2,000 years ago—Jesus Christ promised, “I will come again” (John 14:3).1


What Christ Will Do When He Returns



8And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead,
that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants
the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great;

and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

17And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men,
because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out
as dust, and their flesh as the dung.


-



Isaiah 34:8 (KJV)
For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance,
and [the year] of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 61:2 (KJV)
To proclaim the acceptable [year] of the Lord,
and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isaiah 63:4 (KJV)
For the day of vengeance is in mine heart,
and [the year] of my redeemed is come.

Proverbs 6:34 (KJV)
For jealousy is the rage of a man:
therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance.

Luke 21:22 (KJV)
For these be the days of vengeance,
that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Deuteronomy 32:35 (KJV)
To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide
in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things
that shall come upon them make haste.



Jeremiah 46:10 (KJV)
For this is the day of the Lord God of hosts, a day of vengeance,
that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour,
and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord God
of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.

The Prophet Zephaniah says this time is hastening greatly, or exceedingly!

The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice
of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly” (Zephaniah 1:13-14).

“The voice” precedes the arrival of the Day of the Lord,
which is now speeding toward us as fast as a rocket launching into space.


that there should be time no longer”
“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil,

the Great Tribulation

—2½ years of Satan’s wrath
—1 year of the day of the Lord

the world will suffer for 3½ years.

the Great Tribulation begins: “For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter
and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess
the dwellingplaces that are not theirs” (Habakkuk 1:6).


“Weapons of mass destruction are proliferating rapidly; terrorist groups are arming
for religious war; the nations of Israel are collapsing morally, and will soon collapse
economically, politically and militarily.

Europe is quickly moving toward a full-scale resurrection of its imperial past.
The Middle East is ready to explode and drag the whole world into the deadly mess.

-

That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars
of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess
the gate of his enemies;


And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the
curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations,
whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee,


For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil,
and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal.

-

And God asks, ‘[W]hy will ye die, O house of Israel?’ (Ezekiel 33:11).
Nations are going to die if we don’t wake up and heed God’s warning!”
 
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#35
Okay so I came across this picture with Isaiah 45:7 on it. I know that some here believe that God created evil, and that verse seems to bear the proof. BUT if He did/does NOT create evil, then why does He say that He creates it in this verse? Thoughts, comments are all welcome. Please keep it civil and polite, and stay on the topic. Thanks. :)


View attachment 165342
The Lord will discipline us for our own good. He also leads us to safety.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#36
There is another interesting verse where Jesus said he came to
bring a sword not peace.

Have a read of this it helps put this into context and may help with the
original question.


https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-sword.html



Question: "What did Jesus mean by coming to bring a sword
in Matthew 10:34-36?"

Answer:
Matthew 10:34–36 describes Jesus telling the disciples that
He came not to bring peace to the world, but a sword. Jesus’ sword was
never a literal one. In fact, when Peter took up a sword to defend Jesus in
the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus rebuked him and told him to put away
his sword, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword” (
Matthew 26:52).
Why then, did Jesus say, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace
to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” What kind of sword
did Jesus come to bring?


Among the names of Jesus Christ is that of Prince of Peace. Such verses
as
Isaiah 9:6, Luke 2:14, and John 14:27make it clear that Jesus came
to bring peace, but that peace is between the man and God. Those who reject
God and the only way of salvation through Jesus (
John 14:6) will find themselves
perpetually at war with God. But those who come to Him in repentance will find
themselves at peace with God. Because of Christ’s sacrifice, we are restored
to a relationship of peace with God (
Romans 5:1).

Still, it is inevitable that there will be conflict between good and evil, the Christ
and the antichrist, the light and the darkness, the children of God (believers)
and the children of the devil (those who refuse Christ). Conflict must arise between
the two groups, and this can and does happen within a family in which some are
believers and others are not. We should seek to be at peace with all men but
should never forget that Jesus warned we will be hated for His sake. Because
those who reject Him hate Him, they will hate His followers as well (
John 15:18).

In Matthew 10:34–36, Jesus said He had come at this time not to bring peace to
the earth, but a sword, a weapon which divides and severs. As a result of His
visit to the earth, some children would be set against parents and a man’s enemies
might be those within his own household. This is because many who choose to follow
Christ are hated by their family members. This may be part of the cost of discipleship,
for love of family should not be greater than love for the Lord. A true disciple must
take up his cross and follow Jesus (
Matthew 16:24). He must be willing to face
not only family hatred, but also death, like a criminal carrying his cross to his own
execution. True followers of Christ must be willing to give up, even to the point
of “hating” all that is in our lives, even our own families, if we are to be worthy
of Him (
Matthew 10:37–39). In so doing, we find our lives in return for
having given them up to Jesus Christ.