Exposing!! The Corrupt Counterfeit (NIV) Bible, Verses That Have Been Tamped With!!

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Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,644
440
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#43
I am not "Allen". I will place my hand upon the KJB and so raise my other hand to heaven upon it.
Well ok perhaps he copied your work before you wrote what ya did here.
Oh also read your KJV about taking oaths. Just let your yes be a yes and your no be a no
Blessings
Bill
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,491
7,811
113
#44
WOW You go Spiritdove05. I have done some research and bible comparesons on the NIV as well and I found that the NIV is so corrupted that they had to produce a new Strongs Concordance to match the NIV because you can't use the original.

Has it occurred to you that Strong used the KJV to develop his concordance? Why would you use a KJV concordance for a different translation? That's just foolish. You use G&K for the NIV.

Think through your argument before posting it next time.

We should all remember that the NIV was developed by the International Bible Society which means that they are a corrupted and compromised organization and all of their produced bible versions should be considered to be corrupted as well.
Claims of corruption are not evidence.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
827
113
43
#45
That's what she does. She literally studies the manuscripts.
She isn't taking second hand word for it.
Then someone needs to stop misrepresenting the evidence. I have clearly demonstrated 'her' errors and/or ignorance on the subject.
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,644
440
83
54
#46
Then someone needs to stop misrepresenting the evidence. I have clearly demonstrated 'her' errors and/or ignorance on the subject.
You demonstrated that you can cut and paste really well, with dated and well refuted misinformation from snake oil salesmen.
Bill
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
827
113
43
#47
Oh also read your KJV about taking oaths. Just let your yes be a yes and your no be a no
You misrepresented that text. The oath spoken of there is in reference to that which is like unto Herod's, see Mark 6:23, or Zedekiah's to Jeremiah, see Jeremiah 38:16.

Notice Jesus, swearing an oath:

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.​
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.​

Jesus was in Court Session, before the Council, and so sware, by the adjuration to the Living God (Father).
Gen_26:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
Gen_50:24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die: and God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.​
Exo_13:5 And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee, a land flowing with milk and honey, that thou shalt keep this service in this month.​
Exo_13:11 And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, as he sware unto thee and to thy fathers, and shall give it thee,​
Exo_33:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Depart, and go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it:​
Num_14:16 Because the LORD was not able to bring this people into the land which he sware unto them, therefore he hath slain them in the wilderness.​
Num_14:23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:​
Num_14:30 Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.​
Num_32:10 And the LORD'S anger was kindled the same time, and he sware, saying,​
Num 32:11 Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:​
Num 32:12 Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite, and Joshua the son of Nun: for they have wholly followed the LORD.​
Deu_1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.​
Deu_1:34 And the LORD heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,​
Deu 1:35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,​
Deu 1:36 Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him will I give the land that he hath trodden upon, and to his children, because he hath wholly followed the LORD.​
Deu_2:14 And the space in which we came from Kadeshbarnea, until we were come over the brook Zered, was thirty and eight years; until all the generation of the men of war were wasted out from among the host, as the LORD sware unto them.​
Deu_4:21 Furthermore the LORD was angry with me for your sakes, and sware that I should not go over Jordan, and that I should not go in unto that good land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance:​
Deu_4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.​
Deu_6:10 And it shall be, when the LORD thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst not,​
Deu_6:18 And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of the LORD: that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest go in and possess the good land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers,​
Deu_6:23 And he brought us out from thence, that he might bring us in, to give us the land which he sware unto our fathers.​
Deu_7:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:​
Deu_7:13 And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.​
Deu_8:1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.​
Deu_8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.​
Deu_9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.​
Deu_10:11 And the LORD said unto me, Arise, take thy journey before the people, that they may go in and possess the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give unto them.​
Deu_11:9 And that ye may prolong your days in the land, which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give unto them and to their seed, a land that floweth with milk and honey.​
Deu_11:21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.​
Deu_26:3 And thou shalt go unto the priest that shall be in those days, and say unto him, I profess this day unto the LORD thy God, that I am come unto the country which the LORD sware unto our fathers for to give us.​
Deu_28:11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.​
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
827
113
43
#48
Oh also read your KJV about taking oaths. Just let your yes be a yes and your no be a no
You misrepresented that text. The oath spoken of there is in reference to that which is like unto Herod's, see Mark 6:23, or Zedekiah's to Jeremiah, see Jeremiah 38:16.

Notice Jesus, swearing an oath:

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.​
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.​

Jesus was in Court Session, before the Council, and so sware, by the adjuration to the Living God (Father). CONTINUED
Deu_30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.​
Deu_31:20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.​
Deu_31:21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.​
Deu_31:23 And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.​
Deu_34:4 And the LORD said unto him, This is the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither.​
Jos_1:6 Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them.​
Jos_5:6 For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not shew them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.​
Jos_21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.​
Jos_21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.​
Jdg_2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.​
Psa_95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.​
Psa_106:26 Therefore he lifted up his hand against them, to overthrow them in the wilderness:​
Isa_26:11 LORD, when thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: but they shall see, and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them.​
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.​
Eze_16:8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.​
Eze_20:5 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when I chose Israel, and lifted up mine hand unto the seed of the house of Jacob, and made myself known unto them in the land of Egypt, when I lifted up mine hand unto them, saying, I am the LORD your God;​
Eze_20:6 In the day that I lifted up mine hand unto them, to bring them forth of the land of Egypt into a land that I had espied for them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands:​
Eze_20:15 Yet also I lifted up my hand unto them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands;​
Eze_20:23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;​
Eze_20:28 For when I had brought them into the land, for the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to them, then they saw every high hill, and all the thick trees, and they offered there their sacrifices, and there they presented the provocation of their offering: there also they made their sweet savour, and poured out there their drink offerings.​
Eze_20:42 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers.​
Eze_36:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.​
Eze_44:12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.​
Eze_47:14 And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another: concerning the which I lifted up mine hand to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance.​
Luk_1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
Heb_3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)​
Heb_3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?​
Heb_6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,​
Heb_7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

Jesus (messenger of the Father) again:

Rev_10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,​
Rev_10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:​
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
827
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#49
You demonstrated that you can cut and paste really well, with dated and well refuted misinformation from snake oil salesmen.
Bill
Ad Hominem. Show me where my cited evidence is in error by showing from the mss. I can, not merely cite things. I can show pictures of mss, including codices Aleph and B.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,016
142
63
#51
When you know you know.. ;)

Keep at it.
Glory to the Almighty GOD.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,135
1,416
113
#52
Here’s Verse comparisons between the (KJV) bible and the faulty (NIV) bible.


(KJV)
Matthew 17:21
However, this kind does not
go out except by prayer
and fasting.

(NIV)
Matthew 17:21
ooopppss!! Zilch!! Whole verse
missing, why???

Here we see an entire verse missing from the NIV, why would you remove an entire verse out of the bible?
Perhaps the writers are trying 2 hide something? Looks very suspicious 2 me!! Bible says in deu 4:2 you
shall not add nor detract from the word of God.

(KJV)
Mark 9:29
And he said unto them, This kind
can come forth by nothing, but
by prayer and fasting.

(NIV)
Mark 9:29
He replied, “This kind can come out only by prayer.

Now this is the time in the bible where the apostles in the bible couldnt cast a demon out of a child
and then jesus came and cast it out of the child and the apostles then said 2 him how come we couldnt
cast the demon out of the child and he said 2 them dis kind comes out by prayer and (fasting). Now in
the (KJV) it also says prayer and (fasting) but in the (NIV) it says prayer only, why is dis?

If you look at all through out history monks, preists and other types of religious people would fast
mortify their flesh and 2 strenghen themselves spirituly so that it wud be easyer for them 2 open
themselves up 2 the spiritual relm and 2 communicate with God more effectivly without any interference
from any demonic forces then a person can perceive Gods word better.

When we fast we de-clutter our bodies and detoxify ourselves and drain away impurities from our systems
which hence frees up our minds and also allows the holy spirit 2 move through us more easily.

Fasting is quite a big part of christianity and walking in the spirit and also quite a big part of
deliverence ministry, jesus also said we must deny our flesh, Matthew 16:24 so why has the (NIV)
taken this out of the verse? its quite an important element. it raises alot of questions?

(KJV)
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to
them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk
not after the flesh, but after the Spirit).

(NIV)
Romans 8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
who are in Christ Jesus,

See the difference? wheres the 2nd part of the verse in the (NIV) version? Well lets look at the 1st
part. (There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus). what does it mean
2 be in christ? does it mean 2 believe in him? well even the demons believe and tremble james 2:19.
does it mean 2 follow christ? well 2 follow jesus is 2 deny urself and take up ur cross stated again
in Matthew 16:24. or does it mean 2 walk as christ walked?

well the bible clearly shows that jesus walked in the spirit. Romans 8:8 Those controlled by the
flesh cannot please God. and we know that jesus pleased the father Matthew 17:5 "This is my beloved
Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him".and john 8:29 the father have not left me alone coz
i always do the things dat please him.

therefore we can conclude dat being in christ is 2 be in the spirit as he was, we must worship God
in spirit and in truth john 4:24 also pauls main enphesis through out the NT is to be born again
(circumcised in the heart) and 2 be in the spirit!! gal 5:16.

alot of people are being misslead by a tampering of the word and think their ok with God as long
as they just believe in christ without any form of repentence which is very evident in ur
avarage (so called christian) 2day! hence leaving dem with the idea dat they can also (sin) but
call on jesus and its ok! its because of deception like dis dat many people are dammed and on their
way 2 hell unfortunetly Matthew 7:13

(KJV)
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and
hearing by the word of God

(NIV)
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message,
and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

here we have 2 completley different paragraphs."faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God"
how does a person get saved? dont they have 2 hear the word!! and wat is the bible? isnt it Gods word?
and isnt jesus christ the word dat became flesh? so dat would make the bible all about christ!! so
why does the (NIV) say " hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ".

so wats dis so called message dat the (NIV) is talking about? i cant find it, i mean there are tones
of messages in the bible anyway, some of dem are prophecys of jesus christ!! some are parables and
some are just some other prophetic talk.

Anyway faith doesnt come by "hearing the message" faith comes by hearing the gospel which is the
(good news) and the whole word of God which is the bible. so once again another twisting of the
scriptures again!!
The good news is the gospel as it is written. It brings the faith by which we can believe. without it we have no way to seek after him so we can understand.As in all things he must do the first works in us with us murmuring. .(Philippians 2:13-14)

Fasting as law of faith represents the Gospel as the "true fast" defined in Isiah 58 a whole chapter set aside to help us understand the nature of the the fast (faith eternal ) In a hope of being heard on high . Physical fasts can aid the flesh but it is not flesh and blood in which we do wrestle against.

Not a fast from food but a day set aside to humble oneself loving ones neighbor as oneself.

Note... purple = metaphors used in the parable to represent the unseen work of the gospel

Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours. Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: (who is the greatest 'no faith") ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord? Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, (drive out demons) to undo the heavy burdens,(yoked with Christ). and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? (as those who hunger and thirst for a righteousness not of there own self) when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; (clothed with Christ righteousness) and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward.Isaiah 58:3-8

Prayer are requests to God who causes the growth working out the gospel as the true fast as unto his good pleasure .
Their prayers were not answered because they did not mix faith the unseen understanding. Not eating does not move God as a seal of His approval

The fast that satisfies the hunger for hearing the gospel does come with his approval

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,777
8,448
113
#53
You misrepresented that text. The oath spoken of there is in reference to that which is like unto Herod's
nah.

it is explicit. do not swear at all neither by heaven, by the earth, by Jerusalem, by thine head, nor by thine foreign-language translation.

anything more than yes or no is of the evil one.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,777
8,448
113
#54
nah.

it is explicit. do not swear at all neither by heaven, by the earth, by Jerusalem, by thine head, nor by thine foreign-language translation.
anything more than yes or no is of the evil one.

when one swears like this:

I will place my hand upon the KJB and so raise my other hand to heaven upon it.
they are in direct opposition to Christ's word. you ought to have just said, you're not that guy, and left it. when you say you'll swear by heaven, as Christ explicitly said don't do, you imply that words you say which aren't additionally sworn are not necessarily trustworthy. no amount of spin changes this.

just be real. i make mistakes too; that's no more shame than anyone you're talking to has - and there is One who will bear your shame for you, no matter what your native tongue is :)
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
827
113
43
#55
You a "Catholic", right?

"... II. LAWFULNESS AND CONDITIONS.—An oath is licit, and an act of virtue, under certain conditions. It is, in effect, an act of homage rendered by the creature to the wisdom and omnipotence of the Creator—it is therefore an act of the virtue of religion; moreover, it is an excellent way of affording men security in their mutual intercourse. It is justified in the Old and New Testament; the faithful and the Church from Apostolic times to the present day have employed oaths; and canonical legislation and doctrinal decrees have affirmed their lawfulness. Improper use is often made of oaths, and the habit of swearing may easily lead to abuses and even to perjury. In counseling men “not to swear at all” (Matt., v, 34) Christ meant, as the Fathers and ecclesiastical writers explain, to be so truthful that men could believe them without need of oath to confirm what they say. He did not forbid the use of oaths under proper conditions, when necessary to satisfy others of our truthfulness. ..." - https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/oaths

Papal Oaths - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_oath_(traditionalist_Catholic)

https://archive.org/details/cihm_04744/mode/1up

Oath of Fidelity, from Vatican.va:
"OATH OF FIDELITY
ON ASSUMING AN OFFICE
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,777
8,448
113
#56
You a "Catholic", right?

"... II. LAWFULNESS AND CONDITIONS.—An oath is licit, and an act of virtue, under certain conditions.
I'm sorry, do you have a comprehension problem? Serious question.

Because I just wrote affirming what Jesus said do not swear AT ALL and now you are replying saying I'm Catholic because i am saying swearing is okay sometimes??
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
1,671
704
113
#57
This is the best idea of your entire response:

The NIV and NWT follow the same pattern:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+7:16&version=NIV

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/7/#v41007016

Let's now consider the NWT Mark 7:16, and show that it too follows Vaticanus and Sinaiticus:

Mark 7:16 NWT - 16 ——
NWT Notation on Mark 7:16 - "Some manuscripts here include the words “If anyone has ears to listen, let him listen,” but they do not appear in important early manuscripts. Therefore, these words are evidently not part of the original text of Mark. Similar words, though, can be found at Mr 4:9, 23 as part of the inspired Scriptures. Some scholars are of the opinion that a copyist introduced these words here as a natural comment following verse 14 by drawing from the wording at Mr 4:9, 23.—See App. A3." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/7/#v41007016

Again, that which is stated is a lie, not only referring to Mark 4:9,23 which does have the words, the NWT notation again falsely says, "... Some manuscripts ... but they do not appear in important early manuscripts ..."

"Important"? Who decided that Sinaiticus and Vaticanus were "important", or even "early" or even accurate or true?




The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), L, Delta*, 0274, 28, 2427​

Yet, even in the Nestle/Aland footnotes, they specifically make mention of those texts that they know it to be in, though this is not all of the materials that it does exist in:

"... A, D, W
Theta
Ë1,13,
33
ï

Peter Ruckman, cites:

"... Tatian's Diatessaron (180 AD) and the Gothic version of Ulfilas (320 AD) as the earliest authorities for this verse. Berry's Greek text supports this passage. ..." - Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses
Thomas Aquinas, cites in Catena Aurea:

"... Pseudo-Chrys., Vict. Ant. e Cat. in Marc.: Again He subjoins, “If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.” For He had not clearly shewn them, what those things are which proceed out of a man, and defile a man; and on account of this saying, the Apostles thought that the foregoing discourse of the Lord implied some other deep thing. ..." - St. Thomas Aquinas: Catena Aurea - Gospel of Mark - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Thanks for this post WR , I've had manly p hall popping up in my mind for the last few days .. I love that david daniels guy , his knowledge and his enthusiasm .. I'm a KJV guy and learned something new, thanks, another answered prayer for me .. God Bless
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
827
113
43
#58
So my advice is to learn about manuscripts.
Here we go, some more:

Luk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.​
Luke 1:28 in NIV and NWT, the phrase "blessed art thou among women" is not present:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+1:28&version=NIV

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/luke/1/#v42001028

The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), L, W, Psi, pc, fam 1, Syriac: pal, Coptic: sa, bo, Arm​

Here is the vast extant literature which has the text in it:

"... A, C, D, E, F, G, H, K, M, N, S, U, V, X
Gamma, Delta, Theta, Lamba, Pi
053, 0135
Cursives: MAJORITY, fam 13
Old Latin: a, aur, b, c, d, e, f, ff2, l, q, r1, Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Harclean
Coptic: Bohairic-mss
Gothic, Ethiopic
Also extant in Y, Xi, Omega?, 047, 053, 055, 0130, 0211, 0233? ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, pages 85

Additionally:

"... TAITIAN, Diatessaron (I 10:44), Gospel of Nativity of Mary (I 8:386), "blessed art thou above all women" ..." - Early Church Fathers and the Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 44

Additionally:

"... Ruckman (54) p 18, states that the words are found in all four families of manuscripts and indicates they were quoted 170 years before the appearance of Aleph and B. Berry's Greek text supports this passage. ..." - http://ecclesia.org/truth/manuscript_evidence.html

Additionally:

"... The older Douay-Rheims of 1582 as well as the 1950 Douay both contained these words, reading: "And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: BLESSED ART THOU AMONG WOMEN." ... Bible translations that agree with the Traditional reading of "Blessed art thou among women" in Luke 1:28 are the following: the Latin Vulgate 382 A.D. and 405 A.D. - "benedicta tu in mulieribus", the Anglo-Saxon gospels 1000 A.D. - "þu eart gebletsud on wifum.", Wycliffe 1395 - "Heil, ful of grace; the Lord be with thee; blessid be thou among wymmen.", Tyndale 1525, Coverdale 1535 - "the LORDE is with the: blessed art thou amonge wemen.", ..." - https://brandplucked.webs.com/mat125firstlk128bless.htm

Additionally:

Augustine, Chapter V.—A Statement of the Manner in Which Luke’s Procedure is Proved to Be in Harmony with Matthew’s in Those Matters Concerning the Conception and the Infancy or Boyhood of Christ, Which are Omitted by the One and Recorded by the Other.


"... and the virgin’s name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art full of grace,712 the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. ..." - https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf106/npnf106.vi.v.vi.html
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
827
113
43
#59
So my advice is to learn about manuscripts.
Mss learnin' is fun times:

Luke 17:36

The NIV and NWT share the same pattern:


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17:36&version=NIV

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/luke/17/#v42017036

The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

P75, Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), E, F, G, K, L, M, Q, R, S, V, W, X, Gamma, Delta, Theta, Lambda, Pi, Psi, 063, MAJORITY, fam 1, g1, Coptic: sa, bo, Goth, Eth​

Here is the extant literature which has the text in it:
"... D, U,
Cursives: al, fam 13 (41 cursives cited in our other Digest)
Old Latin: a, aur, c, d, (e*), f, ff2, i, l, q, (r1), Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Curetonian, Harclean
Armenian
Also extant in N, Y, Omega, 047, 055, 0211, 0272. See KJVMT p 49. ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, pages 93

Additional:
"... D, 030, 039, 4, 229-C, 262, 265-C, 476, 489-C, 700, 716, 988, 1012, 1071, 1187, 1194, 1230, 1241, 1355, 1396, 1573, 1555, (2148), 2174, many others.
Von Soden indicates, I iota, (13, 124, 230, 346, 543, 826, 973, 1689). I phi b, (7, 267, 659, 1606, 2191), I beta (16, 348, 477, 1216, 1279, 1579, 1588).
Lectionary: 185, 1579.
Old Latin: a, aur, b, (c*), e, f, ff2, i, l, q, (r1); Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Sinaitic, Curetonian, Harclean
Armenian, Georgian.
Taitian, Syria, 172.
Eusebius, Caesarea, 339.
Ambrose, Milan, Latin, 397.
Augustine, Hippo, Latin, 430.
... Stephanus in his fourth edition includes it. ..." - When the KJV Departs from the "Majority" Text of Hodge & Farstad, cited by the Corrupt NKJV, by Jack Moorman, page 49
Additionally:

"... Hills (3) p 221, (38) p 208, states that ... in the editions of Beza and Elzevir, in D, the Latin Vulgate, the Peshitta, Curetonian and Sinaitic Syriac ..." - http://ecclesia.org/truth/manuscript_evidence.html

Additionally:

"... It was even in the Catholic Rheims version of 1582 as well as the Wycliffe Bible of 1380 -"twei wymmen schulen be gryndynge togidir, `the toon schal be takun, and `the tother forsakun; twei in a feeld, `the toon schal be takun, and `the tother left.", and in Cranmer's Bible of 1539. You can see them at this site here - http://bible.zoxt.net/hex/hex.htm It was also in the Douay version of 1950. ...​
... Even according to the Nestle-Aland critical textual apparatus Luke 17:36 is found in the Old Latin (which bears witness to a text that preceeds Sinaiticus and Vaticanus by 200 years) copies of a, aur, b, c, d, e, f, ffr, f13, q, and r. It is found in ancient Greek lectionaries 68, 76, 673, 813 and 1223.​
The verse is found in the Syriac Peshitta, Sinaitic, Curetonian, and Harclean ancient versions; it is in the Armenian, Ethiopian, and Slavonic ancient versions. According to John Gill, it is in the oldest Arabic, Persian and Complutensian bibles. It is also found in a multitude of Greek manuscripts like D, I, 030, 4, 262,476,700, plus about 25 others I could list. ...​
... As for some early church fathers, the verse is also quoted by Taitian in 172 AD, Eusebius 339, Ambrose 397, Augustine 430 and others.​
Since initially writing this article brother Tony Bones provided me with another useful bit of information. He says the text of the Gospels in western Saxon from 990 AD and 1175 AD, both have the 36th verse of Luke 17: (Western Saxon 990 AD) Twegen beoð æt æcere. an bið genumen & oðer bið læfed; (Western Saxon 1175 AD) Twegen byð æt akere an byð ge-numen & oðer beoð lefed. ..." - https://brandplucked.webs.com/luke1736scripture.htm
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
827
113
43
#60
So my advice is to learn about manuscripts.
So many mss to consider!

Luke 23:17

The NIV and the NWT follow the same pattern:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+23:17&version=NIV

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/luke/23/#v42023017

The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

"... Vaticanus, A and P75 omit the entire verse. ..." - https://brandplucked.webs.com/luke2317hemustrelease.htm

Here is the extant literature which has the text in it:

"... It is found in the Majority of all remaining Greek manuscripts including Sinaiticus, the Old Latin, Jerome’s Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. - “Necesse autem habebat dimittere eis per diem festum unum.”, the Syriac Peshitta, Harclean, Palestinian, Curetonian and Boharic, and the Anglo Saxon Gospels 990 - 1200 A.D. ancient versions. ...​
... Even though the NIV English version omits the whole verse, yet the Portuguese NIV of 1999 called Nova Versão Internacional contains the verse in the text - “ Ele era obrigado a soltar-lhes um preso durante a festa.” ..." - https://brandplucked.webs.com/luke2317hemustrelease.htm
Additionally:

Augustine, Chapter VIII.—Of the Absence of Any Discrepancies in the Accounts Which the Evangelists Give of What Took Place in Pilate’s Presence. :

"... Thereafter he proceeds in these terms: “No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him: and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him. I will therefore chastise him and release him. For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast. ..." - https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf106/npnf106.vi.vi.ix.html