Ezekiel's Temple

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Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
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#1
The last few chapters of Ezekiel describe a temple that was never built. Some suppose that this is the famous third temple or millennial temple and many Christians see the building of this temple as a prerequisite for the return of Christ, thus making the temple a big deal. I have recently been reading NT Wright's commentary on the book of Revelation and some of Jeff Durbin's videos on postmillennialism and I think both have really important teaching that radically depart from most of the modern interpretations of the end (some of which are very wacky indeed!)

Wright argues that the temple is a shadow of a new reality which is Christ and the Church and that nothing in the new testament has anything to do with a third temple (so whether the jews build one is irrelevant as far as God is concerned). Durbin argues very persuasively that most of the tribulation, abomination that causes desolation, rapture and so forth, refer to events in the first century when God judged the jews and destroyed the second temple.

This leaves us with a problem: How do we explain Ezekiel's temple? So, let's see what the forum has to say!
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
4,076
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#2
Ekziel prophecy of the temple was after Solomon temple before the second temple, the Jews probably knew of the prophecy. did they build the second to spec. no the second was much smaller less elaborate.

One possible explanation the Jews didn’t build the second as instructed the law of the temple, yet it was still recorded so they would be ashamed of their iniquities
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#3
I have recently been reading NT Wright's commentary on the book of Revelation

off-topic, but how is it? i have never read/heard anything from him, but i know a song about him -- i hear N. T. Wright is a sound theologian


 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,052
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113
#4
The last few chapters of Ezekiel describe a temple that was never built. Some suppose that this is the famous third temple or millennial temple and many Christians see the building of this temple as a prerequisite for the return of Christ, thus making the temple a big deal. I have recently been reading NT Wright's commentary on the book of Revelation and some of Jeff Durbin's videos on postmillennialism and I think both have really important teaching that radically depart from most of the modern interpretations of the end (some of which are very wacky indeed!)

Wright argues that the temple is a shadow of a new reality which is Christ and the Church and that nothing in the new testament has anything to do with a third temple (so whether the jews build one is irrelevant as far as God is concerned). Durbin argues very persuasively that most of the tribulation, abomination that causes desolation, rapture and so forth, refer to events in the first century when God judged the jews and destroyed the second temple.

This leaves us with a problem: How do we explain Ezekiel's temple? So, let's see what the forum has to say!

on topic, i've always found it a significant fact that God spelled out for Ezekiel exactly the reason he was given the vision, and it doesn't happen to be, '
to build it' -- and He tells Ezekiel this calling him "son of man" - not an accidental turn of phrase!

As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities;
and let them measure the plan.

(Ezekiel 43:10)

the purpose of the description of the temple in the vision of Ezekiel is so that the house of Israel hear, and be ashamed of their sin. IMO, 'how we do explain' this temple vision has to explain, and be aligned with this stated purpose.

how does N.T. Wright do?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,052
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#5
so they would be ashamed of their iniquities
this

yes

what i've found to be the 'standard explanation' of Ezekiel 43:10 is that they were supposed to see how much greater this temple in the vision is than the one they had, so they would be ashamed because 'oh they would have had a much nicer temple if only they weren't so sinful' -- which, as you point out, begs the question why Herod didn't build the temple per these specs?? and also why someone would want to actually do that - would they be saying in effect, that they're not ashamed of their iniquities? as in, they consider themselves worthy to build the temple of the vision? who would say that? would they be right to?
i'm not sure that explanation is quite right. but if the temple is a picture of Christ, then it jives with Zechariah: that they will see Him who they have pierced, and mourn, i.e. be ashamed, understanding who He is. '
measuring' His design. that is appealing to me, because how i see the Bible, is that every page of it is about Jesus Christ - and it still preserves the fundamental premise, that seeing Him, they will be ashamed, knowing what it is they did not receive, on account of their iniquity.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
4,076
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#6
this

yes

what i've found to be the 'standard explanation' of Ezekiel 43:10 is that they were supposed to see how much greater this temple in the vision is than the one they had, so they would be ashamed because 'oh they would have had a much nicer temple if only they weren't so sinful' -- which, as you point out, begs the question why Herod didn't build the temple per these specs?? and also why someone would want to actually do that - would they be saying in effect, that they're not ashamed of their iniquities? as in, they consider themselves worthy to build the temple of the vision? who would say that? would they be right to?
i'm not sure that explanation is quite right. but if the temple is a picture of Christ, then it jives with Zechariah: that they will see Him who they have pierced, and mourn, i.e. be ashamed, understanding who He is. '
measuring' His design. that is appealing to me, because how i see the Bible, is that every page of it is about Jesus Christ - and it still preserves the fundamental premise, that seeing Him, they will be ashamed, knowing what it is they did not receive, on account of their iniquity.
It’s quite the complex passage probably one of the toughest to understand. near the end of Ezekiel 43 speaks of burnt offerings in which I think is no longer a requirement that seems would lean to a earlier construction before the cross. some scholars say it’s symbolic in doing so not for sins yet in Ezekiel speaks of atonements
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,052
8,010
113
#7
As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities;
and let them measure the plan.

(Ezekiel 43:10)

related:

"Nevertheless, I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you. Then you will remember your ways and be ashamed when you receive your sisters, both your older and your younger; and I will give them to you as daughters, but not because of your covenant. Thus I will establish My covenant with you, and you shall know that I am the LORD, so that you may remember and be ashamed and never open your mouth anymore because of your humiliation, when I have forgiven you for all that you have done,” the Lord GOD declares.
(Ezekiel 16:60-63)
_____________________________________________:unsure:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,052
8,010
113
#8
It’s quite the complex passage probably one of the toughest to understand. near the end of Ezekiel 43 speaks of burnt offerings in which I think is no longer a requirement that seems would lean to a earlier construction before the cross. some scholars say it’s symbolic in doing so not for sins yet in Ezekiel speaks of atonements
there's a correlation between the spring of water that comes out of the holy of holies ((47:1-12)) and the river of life in Revelation 22:1-7

there's no actual spring at the temple mount, so either it is a new thing that comes to pass if the temple was built, or it is symbolic, which would be a clue that all of it is symbolic ((it is a vision after all, which is another clue)) - of the water of life that flows from Christ's side & springs up in the hearts of those who believe in Him ;)
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
4,076
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#9
there's a correlation between the spring of water that comes out of the holy of holies ((47:1-12)) and the river of life in Revelation 22:1-7

there's no actual spring at the temple mount, so either it is a new thing that comes to pass if the temple was built, or it is symbolic, which would be a clue that all of it is symbolic ((it is a vision after all, which is another clue)) - of the water of life that flows from Christ's side & springs up in the hearts of those who believe in Him ;)
good point, another thing to look at I think is rather it’s completed or not or was to is that God has not forsaken His people and that His relationship with them will be restored and a new.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,017
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#10
This leaves us with a problem: How do we explain Ezekiel's temple? So, let's see what the forum has to say!
Both these writers you have mentioned are FANTASIZING instead of exegeting.

The only way to explain the existence of Ezekiel's temple is to accept it as the FOURTH TEMPLE which is built under the authority of God and Christ and is for redeemed and restored Israel. It must be seen in the light of the complete prophecy (supported by all the other prophets).

1. There is absolutely no doubt that according to Daniel, Christ, Paul, and John, there will be a third temple in Jerusalem during the Tribulation. It will be regarded by unbelieving Jews as the "temple of God," and it will be on the Temple Mount.

2. This temple will be desecrated by the Antichrist and used as a venue for him to proclaim that he is God. But before that he will make a deceptive covenant with the unbelieving Jews (who will believe that he is the true Messiah) to resume their temple sacrifices and oblations. There are already red heifers being raised in Israel. This temple will be destroyed during the Great Tribulation (or just before) and this is implied in the fact that it is an abomination to God because the Abomination of Desolation will sit in that temple.

3. Ezekiel's temple must await the second coming of Christ, and the redemption and restoration of Israel.

EZEKIEL 37
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make
a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.


Here is a very clear and unambiguous reference to the temple which will be built within redeemed and restored Israel in the future. God's covenant of peace can be none other than the New Covenant (mentioned indirectly in chapter 36:24-27). "My sanctuary" and "my tabernacle" speak of that temple, and later on in the book of Ezekiel we see how the glory of the LORD enters into that temple (just as it did when Solomon finished building the first temple).

The book of Ezekiel does present an enigma to Christians, who know from the book of Hebrews that the temple and its sacrifices under the Old Covenant were abolished because of the finished work of Christ. The supernatural tearing of the veil within that temple occurred at the same time as Jesus cried "It is finished". But if we are wise we will leave the reconciliation of Ezekiel's temple with the New Covenant in God's hands and simply say that we will learn about it during the Millennium.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
4,076
1,549
113
#11
Both these writers you have mentioned are FANTASIZING instead of exegeting.

The only way to explain the existence of Ezekiel's temple is to accept it as the FOURTH TEMPLE which is built under the authority of God and Christ and is for redeemed and restored Israel. It must be seen in the light of the complete prophecy (supported by all the other prophets).

1. There is absolutely no doubt that according to Daniel, Christ, Paul, and John, there will be a third temple in Jerusalem during the Tribulation. It will be regarded by unbelieving Jews as the "temple of God," and it will be on the Temple Mount.

2. This temple will be desecrated by the Antichrist and used as a venue for him to proclaim that he is God. But before that he will make a deceptive covenant with the unbelieving Jews (who will believe that he is the true Messiah) to resume their temple sacrifices and oblations. There are already red heifers being raised in Israel. This temple will be destroyed during the Great Tribulation (or just before) and this is implied in the fact that it is an abomination to God because the Abomination of Desolation will sit in that temple.

3. Ezekiel's temple must await the second coming of Christ, and the redemption and restoration of Israel.

EZEKIEL 37
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make
a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.


Here is a very clear and unambiguous reference to the temple which will be built within redeemed and restored Israel in the future. God's covenant of peace can be none other than the New Covenant (mentioned indirectly in chapter 36:24-27). "My sanctuary" and "my tabernacle" speak of that temple, and later on in the book of Ezekiel we see how the glory of the LORD enters into that temple (just as it did when Solomon finished building the first temple).

The book of Ezekiel does present an enigma to Christians, who know from the book of Hebrews that the temple and its sacrifices under the Old Covenant were abolished because of the finished work of Christ. The supernatural tearing of the veil within that temple occurred at the same time as Jesus cried "It is finished". But if we are wise we will leave the reconciliation of Ezekiel's temple with the New Covenant in God's hands and simply say that we will learn about it during the Millennium.
interesting how Ezekiel temple dimensions was the only one mentioned with Four squares all equal.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,017
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#12
interesting how Ezekiel temple dimensions was the only one mentioned with Four squares all equal.
According to one writer it is 875 feet square. It is also significant that both the Holy of Holies and the New Jerusalem are cubes.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
4,076
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#13
According to one writer it is 875 feet square. It is also significant that both the Holy of Holies and the New Jerusalem are cubes.
some bibles use the word furlongs, 12,000 of them would be 1500.003 miles, width height length each being 12,000 furlongs pretty big place.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,017
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#14
some bibles use the word furlongs, 12,000 of them would be 1500.003 miles, width height length each being 12,000 furlongs pretty big place.
If you are referring to the New Jerusalem, that's correct. 1500 cubic miles. That is probably equivalent to several continents.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,040
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#15
The parable in respect to temples built with human hands is given a signified understanding using a golden reed, the measure of faith the things unseen the eternal .

Having nothing to do which the corrupted rudiments of this world as oral traditions called philosophies of men . Not one molecule or atom will be present in the new heavens and earth. It is not a rebuild or reconditioned. But a new creation, all things.

It is not the measure of man in inches, feet, miles the earthen rule. But the 144,000 represent those who were promised a new incorruptible body as residents to a city that has no literal wall or gates .

There is no temple or walls in the new order (Revelation 21) as if things just continue on as they did when God first corrupted the whole creation.

When God destroyed the abomination of desolation that was used as a parable for the faithless Jews as the time present . He had no intention of giving another outward demonstration to represent the unseen things of faith. The use of one abomination was enough.

The time of reformation came.

Revelation 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
4,076
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#16
If you are referring to the New Jerusalem, that's correct. 1500 cubic miles. That is probably equivalent to several continents.
If Ezekiel temple description is relevant to the new, would that fit within the dimensions of revelation.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
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#17
It’s seem within the description in Ezekiel 42 there’s a holy and common area,

20So he measured the area on all four sides. It had a wall all around, five hundred cubits long and five hundred cubits wide, to separate the holy from the common.
 

Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
285
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#18
I would like to thank postman and JamOn for your contributions. I took a similar view to both of you, namely that after the destruction of the first temple, God offered a genuine chance to the Israelites to be regathered into their lands and to worship God in a new temple and to make a success, as the people of God, in reaching the nations. Inevitably they didn't avail themselves of the opportunity, they were not 'ashamed of their iniquities' nor where they inspired by the plans God showed them in this vision. The second temple was, in consequence, a diminished version of what was offered.
So, thanks guys, I am glad I posted. I was half expecting a deluge of third temple nonsense from pre-millenial literalists, impervious to biblical symbols and apocalyptic language.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,040
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#19
If Ezekiel temple description is relevant to the new, would that fit within the dimensions of revelation.
The 1444,000 residents represent the one bride of Christ according the golden rule of faith .Not inches, feet, miles. . .the earthen rule walking after what the eyes see.

Remember there is no temple, no literal walls or gates that could be broken down .We are not to seek after familiarity as if we were that in which we are not.

None has received their new incorruptible bodies. Which is not made up of corrupted flesh and blood rudiments of this world. .

And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. Revelation 21:15-23
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,040
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#20
I would like to thank postman and JamOn for your contributions. I took a similar view to both of you, namely that after the destruction of the first temple, God offered a genuine chance to the Israelites to be regathered into their lands and to worship God in a new temple and to make a success, as the people of God, in reaching the nations. Inevitably they didn't avail themselves of the opportunity, they were not 'ashamed of their iniquities' nor where they inspired by the plans God showed them in this vision. The second temple was, in consequence, a diminished version of what was offered.
So, thanks guys, I am glad I posted. I was half expecting a deluge of third temple nonsense from pre-millenial literalists, impervious to biblical symbols and apocalyptic language.
The kingdom of God could never be typified as that seen. We walk by faith the unseen eternal. Its not like the faithless Jews ever had a chance seeing the gospel is not after the flesh of mankind from any nation. The reformation came. The use of Jewish flesh in parables met its end and was cut of never to produce fruit ever again .

A great continuing tribulation for the faithless Jew who hoped their flesh could profit for something. Even though the Son of man, Jesus of his own flesh made it clear. . . it profits for nothing, zero .