Faith ALONE, where is it?

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Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,758
715
113
#41
*thumbs up*

1. Person commits crime (sin)
2. Person guilty of crime (unrighteous)
3. Person condemned for crime (death sentence)
4. Person begs for mercy (confession by faith in the judge)
5. Person's record is expunged (forgiven; cleared; saved; a work only the judge can do)
6. Person is told not to commit crime again (judge's command to person)
7. Person does not commit crime again (person's work to do; proves their faith & forgiveness was justified)
Lord your word is true that says "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand." because to not even see you in the above is quite surprising. Do they even know what you did? Do they really think they understand? Have they even taken the time to understand the process clearly explaining in your feast rituals? Do they even accept the rest of your word that says...

After faith and forgiveness...

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good works,

Hebrews 12:4
In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord

Hebrews 13:16
And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

Hebrews 13:21
[May the God of peace] equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Why do they completely ignore verses like these that explain their part AFTER they've been saved from their judgment, over and over and over? Why do they completely avoid entire chapters and explain away entire books? Could it be because they have no love of the truth? Could it be because deep down they really don't want to grow and mature?

Only you know lord.
 
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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#42
Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words <1,,728,arrabon> originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Praise God! :)

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.
The seal is a mark of the Holy Spirit nothing in scripture says that this automatically secures you. In fact the word seal in greek is 4972 spharagizo. This word is from 4973 spharagis "a seal". Basically the same word in greek is used for the seal on the tomb that was broken, the seals in revelations scrolls will be opened and also implying a king's signet ring marking what is his. It's only a promise to the obedient. So to the obedient, it is a promise we can hold onto.

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Deposit guarantee in greek is the word arrabon meaning an earnest payment.

Ephesians 1:14King James Version (KJV)

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

An earnest payment is a specific form of security deposit made in some major transactions and when the transaction is settled then the deposit is applied to the buyer's portion of the remaining costs. If the offer is rejected, the earnest money is usually returned, since no binding contract has been entered into.

Indicating the offer can be rejected if the one looking to follow God, does not fulfill his side of the pledge( sufficient proof) highlighted in red below...........

arrabón: an earnest (a part payment in advance for security)
Original Word: ἀρραβών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: arrabón
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-hrab-ohn')
Short Definition: an earnest, earnest-money
Definition: an earnest, earnest-money, a large part of the payment, given in advance as a security that the whole will be paid afterwards.
HELPS Word-studies
728 arrhabṓn – properly, an installment; a deposit ("down-payment") which guarantees the balance (the full purchase-price).
728 /arrhabṓn ("down-payment pledge") is the regular term in NT times for "earnest-money," i.e. advance-payment that guarantees the rest will be given. 728 (arrhabṓn) then represents full security backed by the purchaser who supplies sufficient proof they will fulfill the entire pledge (promise).


What is sufficient proof? Probably a believer who remains faithful in obedience to the end. To the faithful we are marked and in our relationship with Christ, we can trust in his promise of our inheritance until the day of redemption once we die in flesh and live in spirit.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#43
Gods deposit will never be taken away. But the one looking to inherit the full amount must remain in Faith unto the end.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#44
The sealing of us in Christ is done by God - we don't do it by our good works by holding out unto the end when we die. We are not saved by death - we are saved by Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


We are sealed in Christ after we heard the message of Christ and we believed just like Paul said in Eph. 1:13.



It cannot get any plainer - in the Greek "you were sealed" is in the Aorist indicative passive which is a one time event and it is passive - which means God Himself does it.

We do not seal ourselves and keep ourselves sealed. That is not the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. That is a works-based/ works-righteousness belief system.



2 Corinthians 1:21-22 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

[SUP]22 [/SUP] Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.


Here is the Greek meaning for the word "sealed"



4824. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]σφραγίζω[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]sphragizō[/FONT] verb

Seal, seal up, set a seal upon, affirm, authenticate, certify, acknowledge.


Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.

Here is the exact Greek word for "sealed" used in speaking of Jesus and the Father has set His "seal" on Him.

John 6:27 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."
 
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Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#45
Many times in scripture we are exhorted to hold unto the faith of what Christ has done on the cross and resurrection. If we try to live by the principles of this world - we will not experience His life that is in us in our new creation in Christ while on this earth.

For example: - the gospel brings us the peace of God. If we don't hold unto this truth that we have peace - then when the circumstances of life assault us ( and they will ) we will not experience this peace because we are not holding unto the faith of what Christ has done. This does not mean that we are separated from Christ - it means we will not experience His life while we are on this earth.

This principle above applies to all the areas of our life.

So, it is important to heed the admonitions to hold to the faith of Christ and all that He has done while in this earth if we are to experience His salvation - "after" we are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16 - He is not a liar.

Either experiencing or not experiencing the salvation of Christ's work in our lives by grace through faith while on this earth is not saying that we will be "un-sealed" by Christ Himself.

There is a salvation that comes to our souls ( souls means life ) by maintaining our faith in Christ's work while in this earth but not experiencing these does not send us to hell. We are safe in Christ. We do need to examine ourselves to make sure that Christ is in us.

There are tares in every church just like Jesus said there would be which is why Paul in Corinthians says for them to examine themselves to see if Christ is indeed in you.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#46
Remain in faith unto the end,but there are people that err from the faith.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for,the evidence of things not seen.

Jesus said,blessed is he that has not seen Me,but still believes.

Without faith it is impossible to please God,for we must come to Him knowing He exists,and is a rewarder to all who diligently seek Him.

It is not enough to believe,and confess Christ,for we must have the proper perspective of faith,for that faith to be effective in our life.

We must have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,for us to have true faith.

We cannot say we have faith,and then not have a proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,for does the vice president go against the president,or is he with him,and does he have the proper perspective of his position,or is he going against the agenda of the president,and his cabinet,and what he is trying to achieve.

God hates sin,and says it is sin that separates us from Him.In the Old Testament they could not have the Spirit.In the New Testament we can have the Spirit,and the Bible says a Spirit led life can abstain from sin,for if the person does not want sin,and hates sin,and allows the Spirit to lead them,they can abstain from sin,for God will not allow them to be tempted more than they are able,and will give them an escape from the temptation so they are able to bear it.

People that say we cannot abstain from sin as if it is impossible,and hold unto sin,does not have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,that He hates sin,and wants us to abstain from sin by His Spirit,and there is no excuse,for the man Christ Jesus is the judge of the world,for He obtained access to heaven,so no one has an excuse for the same power is there for us by the Spirit,and His kingdom represents goodness.

If a person does not continue in God's goodness they shall be cut off,and were a lot of people even saved in the first place,for did they truly repent,for how could they if they believe we cannot abstain from sin.

God is love,and His kingdom love,and God only blesses with our needs,and not our wants,and John said if anyone has the means to feed the poor,but they do not,then the love of God does not dwell in them,and Paul said they have erred from the faith,and James said faith is void in their life.

The prosperity Gospel,and people that believe God blesses with material things,and money,does not have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom.

If they try to obtain wants,and spend money on entertainment,and things of the world,they do not have the proper position of faith.

For to have faith we must not only believe,and confess Christ,but we must also have the proper perspective of faith,or it is not faith,for how can someone say they are following someone,and their agenda,and then go contrary to it,for how are they truly for them.

If people believe we cannot abstain from sin,and hold unto sin because they think they cannot beat it,and spend money on their wants,and worldly enjoyment,instead of helping the poor,then they do not have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,so how do they think they are right with God,and we can have the Holy Spirit to give us the proper perspective to have true faith.

If we do not have the proper perspective we do not have true faith,and it is void in our life.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

Look at it,look at the world,there are millions of them out there,not abstaining from sin,believing we cannot beat sin,holding unto sin,being worldly,neglecting the poor,caring about material,and money,prosperity,believing the prosperity Gospel.

All the while they think they are right,and will ignore the multitude of scriptures that testify against them,being fleshy,and not spiritual,gumming up the works of representing the truth of God,and His kingdom,hypocrites,causing people to turn their backs on Christianity,leave it,and ignore it.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#47
wasn't it John Calvin who said, 'we are saved by faith alone (Paul), but the faith that saves is not alone (James).' ?
 
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F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#48
Lord your word is true that says "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand." because to not even see you in the above is quite surprising. Do they even know what you did? Do they really think they understand? Have they even taken the time to understand the process clearly explaining in your feast rituals? Do they even accept the rest of your word that says...

Why do they completely ignore verses like these that explain their part AFTER they've been saved from their judgment, over and over and over? Why do they completely avoid entire chapters and explain away entire books? Could it be because they have no love of the truth? Could it be because deep down they really don't want to grow and mature?

Only you know lord.
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20

"For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” Romans 1:17

"So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him" Colossians 2:6
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#49
Lord your word is true that says "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand." because to not even see you in the above is quite surprising. Do they even know what you did? Do they really think they understand? Have they even taken the time to understand the process clearly explaining in your feast rituals? Do they even accept the rest of your word that says...



Why do they completely ignore verses like these that explain their part AFTER they've been saved from their judgment, over and over and over? Why do they completely avoid entire chapters and explain away entire books? Could it be because they have no love of the truth? Could it be because deep down they really don't want to grow and mature?

Only you know lord.
Lord, only you know why people think they have to save themselves when you have already saved them. Only you know why they cannot trust you to do what you have promised. Only you know why they misinterpret the word. Maybe they just don't trust you enough?
 
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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#50
Remain in faith unto the end,but there are people that err from the faith.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for,the evidence of things not seen.

Jesus said,blessed is he that has not seen Me,but still believes.

Without faith it is impossible to please God,for we must come to Him knowing He exists,and is a rewarder to all who diligently seek Him.

It is not enough to believe,and confess Christ,for we must have the proper perspective of faith,for that faith to be effective in our life.

We must have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,for us to have true faith.

We cannot say we have faith,and then not have a proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,for does the vice president go against the president,or is he with him,and does he have the proper perspective of his position,or is he going against the agenda of the president,and his cabinet,and what he is trying to achieve.

God hates sin,and says it is sin that separates us from Him.In the Old Testament they could not have the Spirit.In the New Testament we can have the Spirit,and the Bible says a Spirit led life can abstain from sin,for if the person does not want sin,and hates sin,and allows the Spirit to lead them,they can abstain from sin,for God will not allow them to be tempted more than they are able,and will give them an escape from the temptation so they are able to bear it.

People that say we cannot abstain from sin as if it is impossible,and hold unto sin,does not have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,that He hates sin,and wants us to abstain from sin by His Spirit,and there is no excuse,for the man Christ Jesus is the judge of the world,for He obtained access to heaven,so no one has an excuse for the same power is there for us by the Spirit,and His kingdom represents goodness.

If a person does not continue in God's goodness they shall be cut off,and were a lot of people even saved in the first place,for did they truly repent,for how could they if they believe we cannot abstain from sin.

God is love,and His kingdom love,and God only blesses with our needs,and not our wants,and John said if anyone has the means to feed the poor,but they do not,then the love of God does not dwell in them,and Paul said they have erred from the faith,and James said faith is void in their life.

The prosperity Gospel,and people that believe God blesses with material things,and money,does not have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom.

If they try to obtain wants,and spend money on entertainment,and things of the world,they do not have the proper position of faith.

For to have faith we must not only believe,and confess Christ,but we must also have the proper perspective of faith,or it is not faith,for how can someone say they are following someone,and their agenda,and then go contrary to it,for how are they truly for them.

If people believe we cannot abstain from sin,and hold unto sin because they think they cannot beat it,and spend money on their wants,and worldly enjoyment,instead of helping the poor,then they do not have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,so how do they think they are right with God,and we can have the Holy Spirit to give us the proper perspective to have true faith.

If we do not have the proper perspective we do not have true faith,and it is void in our life.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

Look at it,look at the world,there are millions of them out there,not abstaining from sin,believing we cannot beat sin,holding unto sin,being worldly,neglecting the poor,caring about material,and money,prosperity,believing the prosperity Gospel.

All the while they think they are right,and will ignore the multitude of scriptures that testify against them,being fleshy,and not spiritual,gumming up the works of representing the truth of God,and His kingdom,hypocrites,causing people to turn their backs on Christianity,leave it,and ignore it.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.
Amen very true. Some dont understand we can remain strong in faith, grow weak in faith, and also by willful denial give up on faith.

This puppet theology will not stand.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#51
So Jesus (God) fulfilled the requirements of the law...

And the gospel is to go and do likewise?

I think not.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#52
Amen very true. Some dont understand we can remain strong in faith, grow weak in faith, and also by willful denial give up on faith.

This puppet theology will not stand.
So at what point does God's salvation fail?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,070
13,083
113
58
#55
The seal is a mark of the Holy Spirit nothing in scripture says that this automatically secures you. In fact the word seal in greek is 4972 spharagizo. This word is from 4973 spharagis "a seal". Basically the same word in greek is used for the seal on the tomb that was broken, the seals in revelations scrolls will be opened and also implying a king's signet ring marking what is his. It's only a promise to the obedient. So to the obedient, it is a promise we can hold onto.
*THIS SAYS IT ALL FOR ME.* - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words <1,,728,arrabon> originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Praise God!

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.

Ephesians 1:14King James Version (KJV)

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

An earnest payment is a specific form of security deposit made in some major transactions and when the transaction is settled then the deposit is applied to the buyer's portion of the remaining costs. If the offer is rejected, the earnest money is usually returned, since no binding contract has been entered into.

Indicating the offer can be rejected if the one looking to follow God, does not fulfill his side of the pledge( sufficient proof) highlighted in red below...........

arrabón: an earnest (a part payment in advance for security)
Original Word: ἀρραβών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: arrabón
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-hrab-ohn')
Short Definition: an earnest, earnest-money
Definition: an earnest, earnest-money, a large part of the payment, given in advance as a security that the whole will be paid afterwards.
HELPS Word-studies
728 arrhabṓn – properly, an installment; a deposit ("down-payment") which guarantees the balance (the full purchase-price).
728 /arrhabṓn ("down-payment pledge") is the regular term in NT times for "earnest-money," i.e. advance-payment that guarantees the rest will be given. 728 (arrhabṓn) then represents full security backed by the purchaser who supplies sufficient proof they will fulfill the entire pledge (promise).
The problem here is that you read this as if Paul is talking about a promise that WE made and not a promise that GOD made. Get the difference? You want to read this as a deposit we make as if we gave ourselves the Holy Spirit. It is GOD, not us that made the down payment; and it is GOD not us who is making the promise. Please say you get this. The mistake that you are making is that you argue as if WE made the deposit, and that WE made the promise, and that if WE don't pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps and endure, WE will forfeit the down payment. Who is it that keeps up strong to the end? (1 Corinthians 1:8). God or us?

What is sufficient proof? Probably a believer who remains faithful in obedience to the end. To the faithful we are marked and in our relationship with Christ, we can trust in his promise of our inheritance until the day of redemption once we die in flesh and live in spirit.
Genuine believers who remain faithful in obedience to the end? So how much obedience does it take? Faith that endures to the end is the mark of a genuine believer. Be careful that you don't go drawing lines in the sand on just how much "obedience" it takes to keep you saved. Then you cross the line into type 2 works salvation (salvation maintained by works).
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#56
Gods deposit will never be taken away.
Amen!

But the one looking to inherit the full amount must remain in Faith unto the end.
Remaining in faith unto the end is the mark of a genuine believer. Saving faith in Christ endures and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
 
Jan 7, 2017
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#57
So I tried to find where in the bible is FAITH ALONE mentioned, and the only result on the esword is this (ironically):

Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Well what about the infamous often quoted ephesians 2:8-9?

Hmm. Contradiction? Different dispensation? OR...... OR: Could it be that the WORKS mentioned in ephesians 2:8-9 are religious ceremonies, rituals, circumcisions, diverse washings etc.

I say yes, it makes sense, see now we dont have to contradict the overwhelming call of the book of acts and the gospels where its stated: Repent(something we do) and believe the gospel. (believe, trust).

Now is this simple or what? Dont need to throw out James or say its to tribulation saints or whatever.

I hope atleast someone sees this, while I know its probably an unpopular message these days.
what message? Well repent and believe the gospel of course, I know im preaching to the choir since most people here are saved, but it does worry me that some christians have this faith alone thing driven into them to a point where they are saying preaching repentance is heresy (Steven anderson does this for example to drop a name).


PS And as always, if someone can show me the infamous sola fide from scripture, i'll change my mind in an instant. I just dont know how you can do away with the statement in James tho.
I think this verse may apply. Roman 4:5 But to the one that does not work, but believes him who justifies the ungodly his faith is counted as righteousness. Study the context here, its not about rituals etc.. its about deeds. Its faith alone, maybe there is a better passage but this one came to mind.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,758
715
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#58
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20

"For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” Romans 1:17

"So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him" Colossians 2:6
Lord your word is true that says "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand." because to not even see you in the above is quite surprising. Do they even know what you did? Do they really think they understand? Have they even taken the time to understand the process clearly explaining in your feast rituals? Do they even accept the rest of your word that says...



Why do they completely ignore verses like these that explain their part AFTER they've been saved from their judgment, over and over and over? Why do they completely avoid entire chapters and explain away entire books? Could it be because they have no love of the truth? Could it be because deep down they really don't want to grow and mature?

Only you know lord.
Lord, only you know why people think they have to save themselves when you have already saved them. Only you know why they cannot trust you to do what you have promised. Only you know why they misinterpret the word. Maybe they just don't trust you enough?

Must be a mental block to read the phrase "after they've been saved" to then still this is about "saving". So one against I post the passages that won't be directly addressed because there's no answer for them.


Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good works,

Hebrews 12:4
In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord

Hebrews 13:16
And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

Hebrews 13:21
[May the God of peace] equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


Do you guy accept all of the book of Hebrews?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
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#59
*THIS SAYS IT ALL FOR ME.* - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words <1,,728,arrabon> originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Praise God!

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.

The problem here is that you read this as if Paul is talking about a promise that WE made and not a promise that GOD made. Get the difference? You want to read this as a deposit we make as if we gave ourselves the Holy Spirit. It is GOD, not us that made the down payment; and it is GOD not us who is making the promise. Please say you get this. The mistake that you are making is that you argue as if WE made the deposit, and that WE made the promise, and that if WE don't pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps and endure, WE will forfeit the down payment. Who is it that keeps up strong to the end? (1 Corinthians 1:8). God or us?

Genuine believers who remain faithful in obedience to the end? So how much obedience does it take? Faith that endures to the end is the mark of a genuine believer. Be careful that you don't go drawing lines in the sand on just how much "obedience" it takes to keep you saved. Then you cross the line into type 2 works salvation (salvation maintained by works).
No just i said God gives his side and its always there to be given. All he asks of us is to remain in faith. Thats the so called earnest understanding.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,758
715
113
#60
How many of the patriarchs have to conclude the same thing for believers to actually believe in it?

James, Paul, The author of Hebrews, Christ during his ministry, Christ in his end time letters...How many of them have to say "do good works", "say no to sin", "be holy" before we say "you know what...I think we're actually supposed to make the effort"?