Faith and Deeds

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Tombo

Guest
#41
#41
cfultz3 said:
Eternally Grateful,

I hope you will be speaking more in the posts.
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I agree. He clearly and effectively refutes these errors.
God bless.

Tom
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
#42
Oct 30, 2011
8,086
190
63
#42
12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#44
#44
Tommy4Christ said:
The animals were sacrificed again and again for sin, Christ was a one time sin offering for the sins of the world!

Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

He wasnt a substitute for our sins, but died on our behalf, not IN our place.
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I can only assume you do not know what the word "redeemed means" even more scary, you show you have not studied the word much. or do not wish to see the beauty that happened on that fateful night on the cross.

Redeemed means purchased with a price. Christ purchased our salvation with his death on the cross.

Colossians 2:14
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

could you kindly explain what this verse means? What does it mean he took our certificate of death out of the way, How could he take our certificate out of the way unless he took it in our place?


He canot be our example and substitute at the same time.
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Says who? He was our example by the way he lived his life and trusted the father, he was our substitute by taking the punishment due us, He who knew no sin was MADE SIN FOR US, so we might be made righteous in him. Do you understand what the word "impute"means? My sin was imputed to him, My punishment was bore by him, and thus i am set free of the certificate of death which was against me for my sin. For this reason, his righteousness can be imputed to me, and I am seen by the father as being sinless through Christ and the cross. The basic doctrine of justification and redemption.


This article by Brother Mike will straighten this out for you, please consider what you are saying, the whole council of God does not teach imputation, in any way, shape or form.
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We Esteemed Him Stricken!​

Surely He has borne our grief And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. Isa53:4

Was it Necessary for Jesus to Suffer the Wrath of God and be Punished for sin by Becoming Sin? Since the Ten and Eleventh Centuries this has been taught as mainstream doctrine in the Christian Churches. Isaiah 53 is used as a Stronghold to support the doctrine. But NOTHING in Scripture Shows or implies that Jesus had to ‘Become Sin’ in order to offer His blood in remission of sin.

Translators in the 1600’s molded this teaching into their interpretation of 2Cor5:21,
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

But this Same expression for ‘sin’ is used over 100 times throughout scripture, in the Hebrew Bible written in Greek called the: Septuagint. A Concordance Search of this Bible will show many passages, including Isa53:10, as ‘SIN OFFERING’ Never ‘Becoming sin!’ In the New Testament this is confirmed in such passages as Heb9:14, the Word is translated Sin offering, or Offered Himself. There is a BIG Difference between becoming sin and Offering yourself for sin and it spells the difference between a True and False Doctrine of Redemption!

Christ could NOT have Became sin and then Offered Himself ‘WITHOUT’ Spot to God. (Heb9:14) The animal or victim in the Leviticus sacrifice did not Become sin, it was Offered for Sin. No Transfer was necessary to Remit the Wrong Doing. The Wrong Doing is remitted on virtue of the Blood offering.
(Without the shedding of blood there is no remission, Heb9:22) AND the Reconciliation that takes place at the Mercy Seat. (Heb9:5, 10:19-22) In the CLEARING of the Wrong Doing!

“Let us Draw Near with a True Heart in full assurance of Faith, having our hearts sprinkled from a evil conscience and our bodies washed in Pure water!”

The Scriptural Illustration of Forgiveness has Nothing to do with a Transfer or Wrath being poured out:
The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant revealed God’s Manner of Granting Pardon, Matt18:22-35

The Servant owes a debt he cannot pay (SIN) He is about to be cast into Prison and Punished. (HELL)
He approached the Master (GOD) Begs Him for Mercy (In Reconciliation) The Master Grants him Pardon on pure virtue of Mercy, NO One had to PAY his debt, No One had to Suffer his penalty and No One had to Take his Place! He was Pardoned on CONDITION that he upheld his end of the Bargain stuck in the Reconciliation. Violate the agreement (by failing to forgive his fellow servant) and he forfeits the Gift. If his debt had been Paid in Advance (as is being taught today) HOW Could he had been accountable for it again after he violated his agreement?

Had Jesus actually became Sin and Drank the Cup of God’s Wrath, as the false doctrine suggests, then the Provision is a Done Deal. Past, Present and Future sins are already forgiven, the Suffering is taken care of on the Cross (thus no need for us to Repent suffering godly sorrow for sin!) And there is no Further Wrath to be Poured out on mankind, since it has already been done on Jesus. Those who will be Saved (Chosen, elected) will come, the others are eternal damned. This is EXACTLY Why Repentance (if mentioned at all) included no Clearing of Wrong or effort to make reconciliation with God. The Person is ‘Saved’ and keeps right on sinning because Jesus Paid his penalty in advance.

Isaiah is showing that WE ESTEEMED Him Stricken, Isa53:4. This is What Man Considered that God did to Christ, NOT what was Actually Done! In our Eyes He Suffered God’s Punishment. In Reality He Suffered Un-justly at the hand of sinful men. God allowed this to happen in order that the Blood of Christ (the perfect Lamb) Could be Offered as remission of sin. As that Lamb, (Victim) Christ gave Himself to this Process, suffered as a sinner (although He had never sinned or became sin) Died and Rose again.

Now On Condition of our Reconciliation to God through the process of Repentance (stopping of sin!) We can Share in this Death, Die to Sin (the passions and desires of the flesh) and be Raised with Him to NEWNESS of Life! Restored to Obedience and Favor with God. That’s Grace!

Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be (sin offering) for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2Cor5:20-21

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Heb8:10

Under the Lie, you Merely TRUST it’s all be Done for you and you’re forgiven in your sins. The Virtue of His Sacrifice is Transferred to you by faith and God no longer sees you as a sinner, even though you remain vile in your heart. The Purpose of this Redemption is a RESTORATION Of Favor and an Appeasement for Past Sins. In Order that you may Serve God Acceptably with Reverence and godly fear! (Heb12:28)

NOT as the CHIEF of Sinners and Romans 7 Wretch as Your Pastor is Teaching!​
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I don't have time to go over this whole thing right now. Will just say this.

A sin offering is made to make ATONEMENT for sin so that a person may be forgiven. Atonement means to make amends, to satisfy a wrong doing, it is a payment for something done which makes it right.

A sin offering according to law is this.

1. An animal, free of defect and pure, is sacrificed. The blood of that animal is offered to God to make atonement for sin.
2. Lev 4-5 is the law for how these atoning sacrifices were made to God as an offering for sin.
3. The animal is an innocent, who did not do the wrong for which he is slaughtered for, but is killed in the place of the sinner, and because of this God passes over the sin of the one for whome the atoning sacrifice is made.

The author of Hebrews shows us that these sacrifices never made atonement for sin (for the sacrifice of bulls of goats never took away sin) but was a type of Christ, who as the "lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" Christ being the one perfect lamb, who was without spot or blemish, shed his blood to make atonement for mankind, as "he who knew no sin was made sin for us"

Christ did not become a sinner, About the only thing this guy got right. But he did take on sin. We kinow this by the fact he died spiritually on the cross. For when he screamed my god my god why have you forsaken (turned you back) on me. it was then that his sacrifice was real. God the father turned his back on christ, why, because God can not look on sin. The spiritual death due all of us, was bore by Christ on the cross. And because of it. we can be made right through him.

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#45
#45
cfultz3 said:
Eternally Grateful,

I hope you will be speaking more in the posts.
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Thanks for the compliment. I was gone for awhile. Been real busy, but I will try to post more. I love discussing God's word :)
 
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jkalyna

Guest
#46
#46
:) BIGGIE I REALLY NEED TO SAY THIS, I WOULD LOVE TO READ SOME OF YOUR BOOKS. SO PLEASE START WRITING. YOU HAVE MY BLESSING.:)
 
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