Faith and Salvation

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newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
192
10
18
#1
[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Cansalvation come through good works without faith in God?[/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Onehas to wonder, since God judges us all. If a person has done goodworks throughout their lives, but does not acknowledge that Godexists, and does not follow other gods, do they have a chance atsalvation? We know of people that have done good things, yet they saythey don't believe in God. [/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Whatwould God do with such a person? Would He say to them, 'You have donemostly good things throughout your life, things that I wish everyonewho believes in Me would do, and you don't follow other gods, but,you don't believe in me, therefore I'm sending you to hell'? Becausewe know that Heaven and hell are the only two places we can end up.[/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]TheBible tells us that the good things we do must be accompanied byfaith if we ever have a chance at salvation. James 2:24 says, “Yousee that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” Tosay you have faith without doing good works is to not have faith atall. You can say 'Lord, Lord' all you want, but if you don't showyour faith through good works, you would sound like a clangingcymbal, from which no words come forth. [/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Whatis faith but “the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction ofthings not seen.” as it says in Hebrews 11:1. It is the convictionthat God exists, and the assurance that He has laid out plans for ourfuture and our hope, in accordance with Jeremiah 29:11. God has plansfor a future and a hope for all of us, even for those who have yet tosee the light, or who cast their belief in God away. For anyone notseeing the light or who may have, but darkened it, for God there isalways the hope that such a person will come around, and come aroundagain. God is waiting. [/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Andit is the hope of all of us that a person who does good things mayone day realize that the things they do are the things God would wantthat anyone would do. Salvation is a gift, but there is no lotteryfor it. Those who receive salvation have been earmarked through theirgenuine faith in God. But as God works in mysterious ways, we don'tknow for sure exactly what things and circumstances would lead Him togranting salvation. [/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Aperson who does good things must have had some faith. It could befaith in things that are good, faith in things that will turn out OK,or merely the faith that they will live the next day to continue todo good things. Who has the power to make things good and only good?Who has the power in making things turn out OK and only OK? Who hasthe power to ensure we live another day, and not tear us down? It isonly the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jesus who does thesethings. [/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Jesushas laid out a path or behavior for us to take, in order that we maypossibly be saved. What of those who don't know the path exists, butthrough their works have been going along that path anyway? Is thereany chance of salvation for them? There is, if they acknowledge God.As long as they're alive on earth, they have plenty of time to dothat. I tell you that even if it's not until they're on their deathbed that they acquire faith in God, they may be granted salvation.God wants all of us to have faith in Him. [/FONT]
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
8,533
232
63
64
Texas
#2
Works without faith is just as worthless as faith without works.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,007
131
63
#3
Certainly not.

You are saved reconciled with GOD through His Son whom He sent to redeem us by His Grace.

Faith in the Messiah justifies us and no work can even a million good works count for righteousness if you believe not in the Son of GOD. He is our Mediator.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,256
833
113
#4
Works without faith is just as worthless as faith without works.
Amen! ... As is Moral acts of the flesh is Spiritually useless; and Lack of productivity in a Christians life is not "reality" in the Holy Spirit's outcome in our lives; hence, Spiritual truth (or, Spiritual reality; or a man touched by realities Spiritually).
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
8,533
232
63
64
Texas
#5
Certainly not.

You are saved reconciled with GOD through His Son whom He sent to redeem us by His Grace.

Faith in the Messiah justifies us and no work can even a million good works count for righteousness if you believe not in the Son of GOD. He is our Mediator.
You must really hate the book of James.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,007
131
63
#6
You must really hate the book of James.

Now... this is lovely... I'm often accused of preferring the writing of James my dear.. read what I wrote again please.

Faith without work is dead..

A person without Faith in the Messiah can feed the poor.... but will this save them? Nay.

Faith in the Son of GOD brings good works....
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
5,473
119
63
#7
What is good work?

Good work is work base oN agape love. One may helping or donate big money, but in the eyes of God It may not good work. In the eyes of God, like filthy rags

So It is impossible to do good work in God eyes

not only good work without faith not save us, but It is impossible to do good work without faith

branch can not bear fruit of itself.

it is impossible for branch to bear fruit without abide to the Vine.

In the contrary Jesus Said If branch abide to the Vine, It Will bear fruit.

so It is almost impossible for branch that abide to the Vine but not bear fruit/agape love

if a man claim to have a faith, but kill every day, No love, he is a liar, he do not have a faith, not only lose his reward, but he do not save
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
8,533
232
63
64
Texas
#8
Now... this is lovely... I'm often accused of preferring the writing of James my dear.. read what I wrote again please.

Faith without work is dead..

A person without Faith in the Messiah can feed the poor.... but will this save them? Nay.

Faith in the Son of GOD brings good works....
My apologies. Clearly I misunderstood your point.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,252
703
113
#9
Ephesians 2:1-10
Chapter 2
By Grace Through Faith
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


For me we are saved by faith and not of works.

These works to me of the 2 new commandments that Jesus gave

Matthew 22:37-40


37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

And he even takes it further

Matthew 5:43-48
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
 
Dec 9, 2011
10,073
380
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#11
Works without faith is just as worthless as faith without works.
John 3:16
King James Version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
+++
Doesn't that scripture describe faith without works?

I don't see a mentioning of works there,only faith.

So somebody will say,what about faith without works Is dead?

Answer=GOD does not need to see works,man wants to see works.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,007
131
63
#12
John 3:16
King James Version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
+++
Doesn't that scripture describe faith without works?

I don't see a mentioning of works there,only faith.

So somebody will say,what about faith without works Is dead?

Answer=GOD does not need to see works,man wants to see works.

There is much Scripture to learn from.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
8,533
232
63
64
Texas
#13
John 3:16
King James Version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
+++
Doesn't that scripture describe faith without works?

I don't see a mentioning of works there,only faith.

So somebody will say,what about faith without works Is dead?

Answer=GOD does not need to see works,man wants to see works.
The point that James is making is that faith is not faith without woks. Faith without works in not saving faith.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,044
234
63
#14
Cansalvation come through good works without faith in God?


Onehas to wonder, since God judges us all. If a person has done goodworks throughout their lives, but does not acknowledge that Godexists, and does not follow other gods, do they have a chance atsalvation? We know of people that have done good things, yet they saythey don't believe in God.


Whatwould God do with such a person? Would He say to them, 'You have donemostly good things throughout your life, things that I wish everyonewho believes in Me would do, and you don't follow other gods, but,you don't believe in me, therefore I'm sending you to hell'? Becausewe know that Heaven and hell are the only two places we can end up.


TheBible tells us that the good things we do must be accompanied byfaith if we ever have a chance at salvation. James 2:24 says, “Yousee that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” Tosay you have faith without doing good works is to not have faith atall. You can say 'Lord, Lord' all you want, but if you don't showyour faith through good works, you would sound like a clangingcymbal, from which no words come forth.


Whatis faith but “the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction ofthings not seen.” as it says in Hebrews 11:1. It is the convictionthat God exists, and the assurance that He has laid out plans for ourfuture and our hope, in accordance with Jeremiah 29:11. God has plansfor a future and a hope for all of us, even for those who have yet tosee the light, or who cast their belief in God away. For anyone notseeing the light or who may have, but darkened it, for God there isalways the hope that such a person will come around, and come aroundagain. God is waiting.


Andit is the hope of all of us that a person who does good things mayone day realize that the things they do are the things God would wantthat anyone would do. Salvation is a gift, but there is no lotteryfor it. Those who receive salvation have been earmarked through theirgenuine faith in God. But as God works in mysterious ways, we don'tknow for sure exactly what things and circumstances would lead Him togranting salvation.


Aperson who does good things must have had some faith. It could befaith in things that are good, faith in things that will turn out OK,or merely the faith that they will live the next day to continue todo good things. Who has the power to make things good and only good?Who has the power in making things turn out OK and only OK? Who hasthe power to ensure we live another day, and not tear us down? It isonly the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jesus who does thesethings.


Jesushas laid out a path or behavior for us to take, in order that we maypossibly be saved. What of those who don't know the path exists, butthrough their works have been going along that path anyway? Is thereany chance of salvation for them? There is, if they acknowledge God.As long as they're alive on earth, they have plenty of time to dothat. I tell you that even if it's not until they're on their deathbed that they acquire faith in God, they may be granted salvation.God wants all of us to have faith in Him.
Even one sin not covered by Christ's blood will keep you out of heaven, and all sin and fall short of the glory of God. The Bible says that every creature knows the Creator (unless they suppress truth).

God is love. And the Bible says that even if you can solve all mysteries, give all you have to the poor, and surrender your body to flames, BUT have not love, you gain nothing for your efforts- no heaven, no God, no eternal life. And since the Bible counts love as obedience to God, one who does not love God cannot go to heaven.

"With flames of fire (hell) He will take vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of His Son" (baptism).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,812
555
113
#15
Can salvation come through good works without faith in God?
Anyone who has heard the Gospel would know that salvation is IN CHRIST ALONE. And to believe on Him we must also believe what God the Father has revealed regarding His Son. All other religions teach that men can earn their salvation through good deeds, but that is completely false.
 

lastofall

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2014
558
13
18
#16
No, for without faith we cannot please God, and the just shall live by faith, and by none other; and moreover faith comes only by hearing the Word of God. Is there something to do? Yes of course: god has ordained us to walk in good works which are by Christ Jesus. But we need to understand this as is a marriage: we believe in marriage, but are we faithful in the marriage? we know that the Lord is faithful, but what about us? have we repented and owned our sins? have we denied our own will, that we submit to and rely upon God's will? Do we continue in Christ's Words that we may be His disciples indeed? Do we forgive others that we may be forgiven by God: these and such like things which are by Christ Jesus are we to follow all the days of our life, and endure to the end. For this cause are many called, but only few chosen, because few there be that are willing to take up the cross and follow the Lord Jesus in Truth; contrariwise many there are who superficially follow Him supposing that nothing is required of them, and deceiving their own selves.
 
Dec 9, 2011
10,073
380
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60
#17
The point that James is making is that faith is not faith without woks. Faith without works in not saving faith.
But can man see faith?
Answer=no

Can GOD see faith?
Answer=yes

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version(KJV)

1.)What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2.)For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,007
131
63
#18
But can man see faith?
Answer=no

Can GOD see faith?
Answer=yes

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version(KJV)

1.)What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2.)For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

keep reading seed.. deffo an answer to be had in that chapter.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
8,533
232
63
64
Texas
#19
But can man see faith?
Answer=no

Can GOD see faith?
Answer=yes

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version(KJV)

1.)What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2.)For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
The point made by James remains. Faith that is without works is not faith and the one who claims to have faith that cannot be demonstrated by his works is a fool.
 
Dec 9, 2011
10,073
380
83
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#20
The point made by James remains. Faith that is without works is not faith and the one who claims to have faith that cannot be demonstrated by his works is a fool.
I understand what you are pointing out but do you understand what I am saying?
Scripture Interprets scripture.
It's the SPIRIT of GOD that gives Eternal Life,not the flesh.

If a person has faith,the only way man would understand Is by seeing that faith In action.

Show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works.

In other words,a man cannot show his faith without doing something with his body but GOD does not need to see your faith In action,HE sees your heart.Abraham was accounted righteous by believing.

The thief on the cross did no physical actions.