Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

[PeterJens]

Lets cut through the waffle and drivel.

Eating from the tree of good and evil brings death ie evil.
Listening to the law brings evil and condemnation so should ignore.
The tree of life is Christ, so good.

This is shorthand for the anachists bible or atheism. Religion evil, free love good.
Authorities evil, do what you want, good.
Law evil, lawlessness good.

Now this is the summary of the highlights. If teachers really cared they would make
sure as Jesus did, not one item of the moral law will be done away with.

Morality and righteousness is core to His message, but it is empowered by love through
the cross which brings obedience and victory.

Now weirdly these guys claim through their contorted theology they come to the same
place, except that is obviously a lie. The fruit of their teaching is rebellion and sin against
the law of Christ. It is shown by not preaching about sin and conviction, but alone about
unconditional acceptance without any rules.

 

[gb9]

I'm wondering how those in easy believeism can have faith, because they are no longer convicted of anything.

These belief systems always seem to be full of holes without explanations.

you might be still ignoring me, but, your denomination teaches ( not the Bible ), but your denomination says that one must " prove salvation by works". o.k, , then how many works must one do to firmly prove salvation, also how many times would it take for someone to fall into sin before the opportunity to prove salvation would be gone.

if there is not clear answers to these questions, then you have no right to mention holes in belief systems, as you could drive an 18 wheeler into the holes these beliefs can create.

 

[PeterJens]

Posting this a second time didn't explain anything.
You haven't proven your post.
You DO realize your statement changes the whole OT teachings on faith, don't you?
This is a big deal..... you need to bring forth evidence.

This is why from the beginning I have called this theology heresy.
It fruits are confused and miss-placed, claims lots of things that sound fine, but in essence
is rebellion and easy believism. The preachers hate this accusation so try a quick cover up
later, but for people stepped in addictions, it is just an excuse pass to continue.

I read a quick book about pornography exposure.
It said 50% of guys watch 5 hours of porn a week.
When they looked at how shocked they responded to rape and abuse it was massively diminished
the more porn people got involved with. It literally corrupted who they were and changed their
brain structures and behaviour.

Like alcoholism, unless you have a no sin tolerance approach, you do people no favours.
And this is the point, we both need Christs love through the cross and emotional honesty
with the moral high ground the law of Christ provides.

Where I find the lie is they claim we are diluting the law, while they actually demolish it.
It is such a delusional theology, no wonder people fall for its deceptions, because the sin
you cannot deal with is left alone and the love for religion you have is pampered while you
ego is boosted by claiming you are unique and truly walking in the right path from which you
can never be deviated or thrown off, except the turn over in these fellowships is often one
of the highest around.

 

[Stephen63]

Anyone interested in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - this is a great teaching that talks about it. How this is still in the world today. The fruit of good and evil are on the same tree. This was released into the world through Adam's transgression and it is still the "way of the world." - Paul calls it the elementary principles of the world - touch not - taste not.


They live by and create and maintain their own righteousness by what they do or don't do.

All religions of the world live by it - including the D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness religion that some try to pass of as Christianity.


[video=youtube;C6fvXTBU7tc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6fvXTBU7tc[/video]

Bertie Brits is a Hypergrace & WOF preacher.

You've been told that Hypergrace doctrine & preachers of it aren't allowed on CC.

Please stop posting it or I'll have to report you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith is surrender to God and his will. Only then we are taught to be obedient to his will. Both important but without faith it all is pointless. Without faith obedience becomes works of law. With faith obedience is perfected faith. True faith.

No, that would make faith a work.

faith is trusting God, Christian growth is learning to trusy God in all areas of our life. Which takes time.

if we do not have faith God will keep his word, and his promise of eternal life is assured like he said it is, based on his work. We start off our Christian growth on the wrong root, and we will become stagnant, defeated, or arrogant (judgmental)

 

[PeterJens]

you might be still ignoring me, but, your denomination teaches ( not the Bible ), but your denomination says that one must " prove salvation by works". o.k, , then how many works must one do to firmly prove salvation, also how many times would it take for someone to fall into sin before the opportunity to prove salvation would be gone.

if there is not clear answers to these questions, then you have no right to mention holes in belief systems, as you could drive an 18 wheeler into the holes these beliefs can create.

The answer to this question is simple. When the believer loses faith they lose salvation.
Salvation is for only those who believe. For people with dementia it will be when they
were last able to have a coherent belief. For some with dementia it is amazing how
consistent they remain through it, though for others they become very disturbed.

 

[PeterJens]

So much waffle obscures the cross.

If you see the cross and Jesus dying for your sins, then you have not fallen away.
I always wondered why Jesus referred back to the bronze serpent held up in the desert,
for people bitten by the snakes to find healing.

It worked when you got bitten you were healed if you saw the serpent.
It is why various medical groups take the serpent as their emblem.

Sin is like the deadly strike of the snake, it kills us, but Christ through the cross
heals us. So by just picturing this in your mind, bringing your heart to this place
is healing from the Lord. Some want to mystify the process, but Jesus and His love
is healing to our hearts and the cross is the best expression of this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The answer to this question is simple. When the believer loses faith they lose salvation.
Salvation is for only those who believe. For people with dementia it will be when they
were last able to have a coherent belief. For some with dementia it is amazing how
consistent they remain through it, though for others they become very disturbed.

well good thing for us, Faith does not ocxme from self, it comes from Go, so it can not be lost,

Andsof course we do have Gods promise, that if it strays, he will leave the flock and go get that lost sheep. And as always, the sheep which belongs to him, know his voice and follow him.. The sheep that do n0ot follow him were never of him, they belonged to someone else.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So much waffle obscures the cross.

If you see the cross and Jesus dying for your sins, then you have not fallen away.
I always wondered why Jesus referred back to the bronze serpent held up in the desert,
for people bitten by the snakes to find healing.

It worked when you got bitten you were healed if you saw the serpent.
It is why various medical groups take the serpent as their emblem.

Sin is like the deadly strike of the snake, it kills us, but Christ through the cross
heals us. So by just picturing this in your mind, bringing your heart to this place
is healing from the Lord. Some want to mystify the process, but Jesus and His love
is healing to our hearts and the cross is the best expression of this.

Legalism obscures the cross. It puts self equal or above the cross. As if you can do something to add to the cross to save yourself.

I love that passage also. It says they looked up and were healed forever. They got through life and made it to the other side. Based on one act of faith.

 

[willybob]

Ezekiel 18-27 Again, when the wicked man (sinner) turneth away from his wickedness (repent of his sin) that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, (1 John 3-7) he shall save his soul alive.

Jonah 3:8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way,(stop sinning) and from the violence that is in their hands.

3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; (stopped sinning) and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

A year after Jesus fed the 5000 in Capernaum, He said these people of Nineveh would rise up in judgement against the sinners at Capernaum because they repented not..likewise shall the Queen of Sheba do the same He said....He said they had a greater witness, Himself, than that of Jonah and yet they still repented not.....

 

[Chris1975]

James 2 [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

They can't get away from this verse. Its there for all to see in plain sight. An "inconvenient" truth.

 

[MattforJesus]

Saved by faith alone,not saved by works,when a person confesses Christ,for that is all we can do to have a bearing on us acknowledging Jesus as Lord and Savior.

A person is justified by works,and not faith alone,after we receive the Spirit,for we must do what God wants us to do,and the Bible says,quench not the Spirit.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

 

[willybob]

Christ, of whom IS the "Logos" the absolute logical mind of God. (John 1:1). This most logical mind once said in John 8: “You shall know the truth...and the truth shall make you free" (that is if one receives the engrafted logos that is able to save his soul, James 1-21), therefore implying in John 8 that they would be free from the bondage of sin if they continued in the “logos” , and if not, the servant abides not in the house forever………”go and sin no more” Jesus said, of which He perceived to be a completely logical and intelligent statement, whereas sin is completely void of logic and unintelligent.

 

[willybob]

James 2 [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

They can't get away from this verse. Its there for all to see in plain sight. An "inconvenient" truth.

This is true Chris, the works of faith is steadfast obedience from heart sincerity..They seem to conveniently on purpose confuse this with the works of religion, of the which Paul referenced as "the works of the law" or "its not of works" etc..

 

[Chris1975]

[SUP]Hebrews 12v4

4 [/SUP]You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

For the believer....

 

[valiant]

James 2 [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

They can't get away from this verse. Its there for all to see in plain sight. An "inconvenient" truth.

Yes they are justified by works before men (James is talking about in the sight of men). They cannot otherwise see their faith.

 

[valiant]

[SUP]Hebrews 12v4

4 [/SUP]You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

For the believer....

Soooooo? .................

 

[valiant]

Saved by faith alone,not saved by works,when a person confesses Christ,for that is all we can do to have a bearing on us acknowledging Jesus as Lord and Savior.

And we are then saved for ever, unless of course God fails.

A person is justified by works,and not faith alone,after we receive the Spirit,for we must do what God wants us to do,and the Bible says,quench not the Spirit.

But justification by works is in the sight of men (James 2). God does not need to see our works.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

SIGH These are spoken to the church as a whole. not individuals.

 

[Chris1975]

Yes they are justified by works before men (James is talking about in the sight of men). They cannot otherwise see their faith.

Fiction. You just made that up, didn't you. Lol.

How are we justified by man? What gospel is this you preach (twist)?

Here's a song for you.

[video=youtube;im9XuJJXylw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im9XuJJXylw[/video]

 

[PeterJens]

So much waffle obscures the cross.

If you see the cross and Jesus dying for your sins, then you have not fallen away.
I always wondered why Jesus referred back to the bronze serpent held up in the desert,
for people bitten by the snakes to find healing.

It worked when you got bitten you were healed if you saw the serpent.
It is why various medical groups take the serpent as their emblem.

Sin is like the deadly strike of the snake, it kills us, but Christ through the cross
heals us. So by just picturing this in your mind, bringing your heart to this place
is healing from the Lord. Some want to mystify the process, but Jesus and His love
is healing to our hearts and the cross is the best expression of this.

Legalism obscures the cross. It puts self equal or above the cross. As if you can do something to add to the cross to save yourself.

I love that passage also. It says they looked up and were healed forever. They got through life and made it to the other side. Based on one act of faith.

This phrase misses the whole point "Based on one act of faith"

Jesus is there, the bronze serpent so when you are bitten you can look to it and be
healed.

So you are alive, you get bitten, sin, you see the cross, are healed. It is a present
moment process not see the cross and you are healed forever. It is so easy to get
very close to the truth, then miss it completely. Staying alive in the faith is key, and the
cross heals us of the sin we commit if we seek its healing. Else we will die.

To make this point stronger listen to Moses
The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.
Number 21:8-9

If this was not the case the snake would have just been shown to Israel and they
would all have been immune to the snakes. But this was not how it worked.
The temple sacrifices where the same, commit a sin, seek forgiveness by offering
a sacrifice. So when you sin, you repent confess and believe on Christ for the
forgiveness of your sins. This has always been the teaching of scripture and what
believers have done since the beginning.