False Believers

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claysmithr

Senior Member
May 23, 2017
370
80
28
#1

The above video talks about false believers, and that there are 2 scenarios where this can happen.

1) Never having received the spirit of Christ living inside them in the first place (not living as Christ would want them to live, I suppose. These people may not fully love God or their neighbor, and be quick to cast judgement without love towards other Christians, think salvation is by works, Pharisee behavior)

2) Believers that never mature in Christ, and they are still living in the world.

Of course, he uses Matthew 7:21 to back himself up, and the fact that Jesus says FEW will be saved.

Do you agree / disagree?

Thanks.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
242
43
#2

The above video talks about false believers, and that there are 2 scenarios where this can happen.

1) Never having received the spirit of Christ living inside them in the first place (not living as Christ would want them to live, I suppose. These people may not fully love God or their neighbor, and be quick to cast judgement without love towards other Christians, think salvation is by works, Pharisee behavior)

2) Believers that never mature in Christ, and they are still living in the world.

Of course, he uses Matthew 7:21 to back himself up, and the fact that Jesus says FEW will be saved.

Do you agree / disagree?

Thanks.

Many are called but few are chosen.

I think people are too sensitive to really discuss this issue. Truth is scary. Most would rather wait till judgment day to find out. It takes humility to apply the truth to our lives. That way is narrow and difficult.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
5,266
870
113
#3
The "few" who find the "Way" (a title of Jesus Christ) are those that trust solely in Jesus, and have been born again. He IS the Truth, the Way, and the Life.

The "many" are those that try ANY other way to the Kingdom of Heaven. Be that Judaism, Islam, Hindu, Bhuddism, or those that think they found the way by doing works.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
242
43
#4
The "few" who find the "Way" (a title of Jesus Christ) are those that trust solely in Jesus, and have been born again. He IS the Truth, the Way, and the Life.

The "many" are those that try ANY other way to the Kingdom of Heaven. Be that Judaism, Islam, Hindu, Bhuddism, or those that think they found the way by doing works.

So you don't think 2 billion Christians constitutes many...but rather the few???

Strange!
 

claysmithr

Senior Member
May 23, 2017
370
80
28
#5
So you don't think 2 billion Christians constitutes many...but rather the few???

Strange!
How do we reconcile that FEW are chosen with verses like Romans 10:9 or John 3:16, which makes salvation seem pretty straight forward and simple?

While I do think I am saved, it's probably wise to remember Philippians 2:12
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
242
43
#6
How do we reconcile that FEW are chosen with verses like Romans 10:9 or John 3:16, which makes salvation seem pretty straight forward and simple?

While I do think I am saved, it's probably wise to remember Philippians 2:12

I think we have to distinguish between chosen (for glory) and merely saved (to whatever condition)
 

claysmithr

Senior Member
May 23, 2017
370
80
28
#7
I think we have to distinguish between chosen (for glory) and merely saved (to whatever condition)
I'm not sure I understand, I thought salvation was binary as in, saved or unsaved.
 

claysmithr

Senior Member
May 23, 2017
370
80
28
#9
Why would you think that?
Because I don't see how one can have "more salvation" than another, it doesn't make sense to me.

However, I do agree there are different levels of rewards for those already saved. Is that what you mean?
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
242
43
#10
Because I don't see how one can have "more salvation" than another, it doesn't make sense to me.

However, I do agree there are different levels of rewards for those already saved. Is that what you mean?

There's that too...different levels of rewards. If the kingdom is binary...as opposed to analog...then how could there be levels at all?

Jesus said that Sodom would fare better than Capernaum on judgment day...there must be more to judgment than just a yes or no.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
12,370
924
113
#12
No such thing as false believers. There are false professors but believing results in conversion.

Many profess to have something they do not possess. They are tares, they appear to be like wheat but they are not. Only the Lord can separate them and will do so at the judgment.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
242
43
#13
Yes, they are either born again (from above) or they're not. There are no half borns in the Kingdom.
But to be born doesn't mean survival till maturity. The infant mortality rate in the kingdom is quite high.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
242
43
#14
No such thing as false believers. There are false professors but believing results in conversion.

Many profess to have something they do not possess. They are tares, they appear to be like wheat but they are not. Only the Lord can separate them and will do so at the judgment.

Can't the tares humble themselves and repent?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,981
360
83
#15
There's that too...different levels of rewards. If the kingdom is binary...as opposed to analog...then how could there be levels at all?

Jesus said that Sodom would fare better than Capernaum on judgment day...there must be more to judgment than just a yes or no.
I think it is important to post the scripture we are referring to so as to get a more complete understanding if it's context.

Matt. 10:
11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

We have the Examples which were written in the Law and Prophets for our admonition, We have examples of Faith written in the Law and Prophets so we won't lust after they also lusted. (1 Cor. 10) Sodom didn't have these things. So it seems Jesus is saying He will take that into account when judging them.

Not when judging those who have seen what we have seen.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,981
360
83
#16
No such thing as false believers. There are false professors but believing results in conversion.

Many profess to have something they do not possess. They are tares, they appear to be like wheat but they are not. Only the Lord can separate them and will do so at the judgment.
A small distinction I would humbly add. The Judgment has already been given.

Matt. 13:
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

It's not that "only the Lord" can separate them. A tare is a tare. It's just that He has chosen to let them live together until the harvest.

I think He gave this same Spiritual instruction in Joshua's day.

Judges 2:
20 And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel; and he said, Because that this people hath transgressed my covenant which I commanded their fathers, and have not hearkened unto my voice;
21 I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died:
22 That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not.
23 Therefore the LORD left those nations, without driving them out hastily; neither delivered he them into the hand of Joshua.

Spiritually Speaking I think the tares and the nations mean the same thing.

Food for thought.
 

Miri

The Thingy Member
Jul 22, 2012
8,156
1,030
113
UK age 50
#17
So you don't think 2 billion Christians constitutes many...but rather the few???

Strange!
I assume you have seen some statistics somewhere about people who identify themselves as Christian.

Being a born again Christian and identifying yourself as Christian are two different things.

Also it should include born again Christians past, present and future.

We don’t really know the true figure God does.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,266
159
63
#18
I think it would be very interesting to research the natures of actual wheat and tares (weeds) to paint the full picture.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
12,370
924
113
#19
Can't the tares humble themselves and repent?
They must be born again. If they are false professors it is very difficult for them to be born again. They see no reason to forsake their righteousness and receive the righteousness of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
548
113
#20
But to be born doesn't mean survival till maturity. The infant mortality rate in the kingdom is quite high.
Only if you believe you can lose your salvation.



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