Five Fold ministry Question!

[jodycour]

I have a question that really needs to be resolved in the Church of Jesus Christ today!
Why is it that the Pastor of the Church is the only one of the Five Fold Ministry that Jesus established, is the only one with a secure income?
The rest of the Five Fold Ministry has to beg the Church for support!
This is not fair or, scripturally accurate! The Word of God tells us clearly that the Ministers of the Gospel should eat of the fruit of the ministry!
Most Evangelists, Teachers, Prophets, and Apostles when they are first called to the ministry have to work a full time job to support there family, pay their tithe to support the Pastors income and, support their own ministry expenses!
This is not fair, or right!
In most churches even the toilet paper has more support than the other gifts of the Five Fold Ministry!
The message this sends is that we can't do without toilet paper in the church but we can do without the rest of the Five Fold Ministry!
So please pray for and, support all of the Five Fold Ministry gifts in the Church this is why the Pastors get burned out so quickly because they can't do it all!
The need the other Four gifts of ministry of Jesus Christ in the Church!

 

[mystdancer50]

It depends on the church and it depends on the missionary. Our church supports certain missionaries so they don't have to return to the US to ask for funds for their missionary work. It depends if the missionaries/teachers/apostles/evangelists are under a fellowship or not and whether said fellowship believes in committing to fund them or not.

 

[jodycour]

Praise God that your Church supports these missionaries so that they don't have to come back to get more support! I just brought these issues up because there is a great need in the Church as a whole that is lacking. I see many ministry gifts leave the church or get burned out because of this issue. I also see many Pastors get burned out because they need the help that these other ministers are equipped to do!

 

[mystdancer50]

Yes. I completely understand. Honestly, I was shocked to my core recently to discover many Christians do not believe in tithing and there are even Pastors that support this. Is it any wonder that our missionaries have to return and beg for funds to continue God's work when those of us in the richest of countries squabble over 10% and offerings besides?

 

[jodycour]

Yes that really is ashame! Could you imagine how awesome it would be if even 50% would give their tithe?

 

[mystdancer50]

Indeed. It would be even more awesome if we gave as Jesus said, which is everything. It was really interesting to hear some takes on this from John Piper and Randy Alcorn and how we should know what we can live off of comfortably and give all the rest to the Kingdom of God. This was something that really hit home with me. I have been working on my debt and now that I have this perspective, it won't be to free up the money to add to my possessions or take trips, but rather to be able to give as much as God asks for in the moments He asks for it for His purposes as I continue to give tithes and offerings.

We have most assuredly gotten caught up in this world too much. That is not to say that God does not want us to have nice things, but I liked how someone said it when they said, "The question is not how much should we give, but rather, how much dare we keep?" This is how I will be living my life.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

Pastor is the most accepted office of the church. Most churches do not recognize the other offices, maybe evangelist but not much else. Why have a boss if you can deny they exist and get away with it is really what's going on.

 

[reject-tech]

These "five fold gifts", assuming they are actually gifts, are built in to the person and come without laborious effort, and so are contradictory to a job that pays money.

According to Jesus, a disciple has no billfold and gets minimum wages by the true sense of the phrase. A meal and a warm place to sleep.

 

[Apostol2013]

I have a question that really needs to be resolved in the Church of Jesus Christ today!
Why is it that the Pastor of the Church is the only one of the Five Fold Ministry that Jesus established, is the only one with a secure income?
The rest of the Five Fold Ministry has to beg the Church for support!
This is not fair or, scripturally accurate! The Word of God tells us clearly that the Ministers of the Gospel should eat of the fruit of the ministry!
Most Evangelists, Teachers, Prophets, and Apostles when they are first called to the ministry have to work a full time job to support there family, pay their tithe to support the Pastors income and, support their own ministry expenses!
This is not fair, or right!
In most churches even the toilet paper has more support than the other gifts of the Five Fold Ministry!
The message this sends is that we can't do without toilet paper in the church but we can do without the rest of the Five Fold Ministry!
So please pray for and, support all of the Five Fold Ministry gifts in the Church this is why the Pastors get burned out so quickly because they can't do it all!
The need the other Four gifts of ministry of Jesus Christ in the Church!

The problem is the lack of discernment or even obredience to scripture originaly the five offices are actually groups like in the ot the prophets had schools so do apostles evangelist the prophet and including the teachers the other problem many are asuming positions without having been chosen for the work , like all there are signs of an apostle they vary depending their purpose the aposle is not a simple ordinary lay christian but predestined with a mission from christ himself predestined before birth without getting too much into it likewise the prophet the prophets do not work as a singular but as a unit group judging one another to ensure a strong prophessy and comfirmation but before assuming any position the subject will need first fine tuning in spirit there is much to speak on the subject but if any church would to practice this we would have a powerful revival like never seen since the days of the twelve or even when jesus walked the earth everyone of the members must be chosen for the work not self taken on their own feeling and yes the actual lead prophet pastor evangelist teacher and apostle should be paid oncew the church has reached its peak where it is able to do so but i believe the ledearship should be not working but dedicated to the ministry to be in fulltime prayer fasting and seeking knowledge i have the ability to train individuals and being trained by GOD to do so but due to my responsibility to my own household i cannot at this moment but pocess the knowledge and giftings they are real the entire 5 office ministry is designed for church edification , growth , and multiplication but due to no dedicated or not chosen for the work it hasnt been so , but I am available to help in those areas as i was chosen for the work wich I do not disclolosed very often but it will be time for my surfacing soon. the Lord has good tidings to come but we have a major problem in our entire church system i will pray for a soon to come change .

 

[posthuman]

for one thing, a lot of churches expect the pastor to be all 5, plus 5 other things. once they pay operational costs, pastors, secretaries, given to missionaries and charity to the poor, most churches hardly have $$ left to pay the utility bill, let alone give everyone who considers themselves a prophet a career salary.

maybe some mega-churches ought to take some of the money they spend on lighting and websites and glossy 6-page bulletin notes and help out the poorer brethren where the Word of God is being taught? i read about that happening in the NT epistles, but i rarely hear about it today.

 

[thebelievernchrist]

That's a very good question.hum? and ty for that..

 

[Kerry]

To the OP. if you are truly called God will provide,yet it does take faith on our part. When David did not have faith or leaned to the flesh it cost him dearly. If you are called, then go and God will provide the rest. Don't be jealous of anothers faith, you do not know the miles they have walked with holes in their shoes. Nor how many toilets they have scrubbed or how many people they have watched die still refusing the cross. Think before you speak and I mean that kindly.

 

[zone]

Pastor is the most accepted office of the church. Most churches do not recognize the other offices, maybe evangelist but not much else. Why have a boss if you can deny they exist and get away with it is really what's going on.

what BOSS?

modern apostles and prophets?
there are none.

 

[zone]

The problem is the lack of discernment or even obredience to scripture originaly the five offices are actually groups like in the ot the prophets had schools so do apostles evangelist the prophet and including the teachers



the other problem many are asuming positions without having been chosen for the work , like all there are signs of an apostle they vary depending their purpose the aposle is not a simple ordinary lay christian but predestined with a mission from christ himself predestined before birth



without getting too much into it likewise the prophet the prophets do not work as a singular but as a unit group judging one another to ensure a strong prophessy and comfirmation but before assuming any position the subject will need first fine tuning in spirit there is much to speak on the subject but if any church would to practice this we would have a powerful revival like never seen since the days of the twelve or even when jesus walked the earth



everyone of the members must be chosen for the work not self taken on their own feeling and yes the actual lead prophet pastor evangelist teacher and apostle should be paid oncew the church has reached its peak where it is able to do so but i believe the ledearship should be not working but dedicated to the ministry to be in fulltime prayer fasting and seeking knowledge



i have the ability to train individuals and being trained by GOD to do so



but due to my responsibility to my own household i cannot at this moment but pocess the knowledge and giftings they are real



the entire 5 office ministry is designed for church edification , growth , and multiplication but due to no dedicated or not chosen for the work it hasnt been so ,



but I am available to help in those areas as i was chosen for the work



wich I do not disclolosed very often but it will be time for my surfacing soon.



the Lord has good tidings to come but we have a major problem in our entire church system i will pray for a soon to come change .

time for your "surfacing"??

all the rest of this post is fanciful. you're not an apostle, nor a prophet, you're not called or trained by God to train apostles or prophets or anyone else, apparently.

no thanks....there's a problem in the so-called visible church - but it isn't a lack of apostles or prophets...it's this bogus NEW Five-Fold Ministry Dominionist thing.

don't need ya.

please don't 'surface' - we have enough false prophets and false apostles to deal with.

...

Articles on C. Peter Wagner's "New Apostolic Reformation" as well as false spiritual warfare teachings. This page includes the "successul apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers" named on the Wagner Leadership Institute's site as those with "proven effectiveness in ministry, communications skills and a recognized anointing for the impartation of ministry skills". Beware of these "Latter Rain" advocatres who would lay another foundation than the one already laid in Jesus Christ and the Apostles and Prophets of Scripture!

New Apostolic Reformation

...

The “New Apostolic” church movement

What if someone came along and said we have been doing church without a true foundation. That unless we install this missing part we will not succeed. The answers to the greatest revival in history are going to be found in this missing part. Does this sound like an implausible claim? We are going to look at this very claim used for a unique movement that is now growing.

A National Symposium on the Post-Denominational Church was convened by Dr. C. Peter Wagner at Fuller Seminary, May 21-23, 1996. Bill Hamon said that “this was a historical occasion in God's annals of Church history. It was prophetically orchestrated by the Holy Spirit to fulfill God's progressive purposes of bringing His church to its ultimate destiny... the consensus of the panelists was that there are still apostles and prophets in the Church, and there is an emerging Apostolic Movement that will revolutionize the 21st Century Church” (Streams, Rivers, Floods, Avalanches, cited by Jewel van der Merwe, Discernment Ministries Newsletter, http://www.discernment-ministries.com/Articles/streams.htm)

C. Peter Wagner states “I believe that the government of the church is finally coming into place and that is the, the scripture teaches in Eph. 2 that the foundation of the church is apostles and prophets” (CBN interview Jan.3, 2000).

“ The second apostolic age began in the year 2001” “What’s important is that you’re the people of God out there, you’re representing the kingdom of God, and you know this, but nothing has happened because the government of the church has not come into place” (C. Peter Wagner Arise Prophetic Conference Gateway Church San Jose, CA 10/10/2004) (emphasis mine)

Did the Church have no government for almost 1900 years prior to Wagner’s new apostolic prophetic movement?

The New Apostolic church movement

 

[Tintin]

Modern day apostles? There were the 12 main ones and some others but Jesus followers are called disciples now, not apostles. But you're right, in that the Church should look after its own better.

 

[unclefester]

The problem is the lack of discernment or even obredience to scripture originaly the five offices are actually groups like in the ot the prophets had schools so do apostles evangelist the prophet and including the teachers the other problem many are asuming positions without having been chosen for the work , like all there are signs of an apostle they vary depending their purpose the aposle is not a simple ordinary lay christian but predestined with a mission from christ himself predestined before birth without getting too much into it likewise the prophet the prophets do not work as a singular but as a unit group judging one another to ensure a strong prophessy and comfirmation but before assuming any position the subject will need first fine tuning in spirit there is much to speak on the subject but if any church would to practice this we would have a powerful revival like never seen since the days of the twelve or even when jesus walked the earth everyone of the members must be chosen for the work not self taken on their own feeling and yes the actual lead prophet pastor evangelist teacher and apostle should be paid oncew the church has reached its peak where it is able to do so but i believe the ledearship should be not working but dedicated to the ministry to be in fulltime prayer fasting and seeking knowledge i have the ability to train individuals and being trained by GOD to do so but due to my responsibility to my own household i cannot at this moment but pocess the knowledge and giftings they are real the entire 5 office ministry is designed for church edification , growth , and multiplication but due to no dedicated or not chosen for the work it hasnt been so , but I am available to help in those areas as i was chosen for the work wich I do not disclolosed very oftenbut it will be time for my surfacing soon. the Lord has good tidings to come but we have a major problem in our entire church system i will pray for a soon to come change .

I look forward to touching the hem of your garment.

 

[danschance]

Modern day apostles? There were the 12 main ones and some others but Jesus followers are called disciples now, not apostles. But you're right, in that the Church should look after its own better.

The Greek word for apostle means "one who is sent". Do you think God "sends" people to the mission field or calls them to the ministry?

 

[notuptome]

The Greek word for apostle means "one who is sent". Do you think God "sends" people to the mission field or calls them to the ministry?

Those God sends God takes care of in every sense including their financial welfare. Five fold ministry is big in the Pentecostal and charismatic churches isn't it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[danschance]

Those God sends God takes care of in every sense including their financial welfare. Five fold ministry is big in the Pentecostal and charismatic churches isn't it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It is probably bigger in charismatic churches. I used to think it was impossible to have apostles today but now I see it as a possibility. The church still has a mission field to plow and churches to plant--the same as it was back then. The real proof for me is this scripture:

11And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. Eph. 4

If you read the verse above it lists apostles with pastors and teachers. So if we no longer need apostles then we no longer need pastors! Reading further it says we need the five fold offices until we all attain unity in the faith and the knowledge of Christ. Honestly, I don't think we have achieved unity in the faith, so we must still have apostles.

 

[2Tim3vs16]

The world is full of do-gooders who don't do good things -because of God. They do it because the are just good people. The ministry we ALL do is done for free. In our congregations the brothers work together to distribute responsibilities and provide spiritual food to the congregation. As for the ones who choose to serve or invited to full-time assignments at headquarters or international assignments; all their needs are met and they do get a reasonable stipend. But NO ONE serves for income. Even in old age when they can't serve in the same way, they are cared for. Service to God is a modest lifestyle but nothing lacking. When all congregations are on the same page and the spiritual family supports one another, we provide for those who make the FT commitment. No one asks for money, but all servants understand that it is our responsibility to make our contribution to support furthering the Good News and maintaining our place of worship. It's working and God blesses the work with growth and good spiritual health. That's Holy Spirit at work.