Flood - worldwide or local?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
So we have 75 years to 120 years for noah to build the ark.

Yet you believe in a local flood.. WHy did God not just move him and his family to another place.. Seems it would have been so much easier than building an ark.. and putting noah and his family through a year in it.

One of the many reasons I can not buy a local flood
 
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wsblind

Guest
So we have 75 years to 120 years for noah to build the ark.

Yet you believe in a local flood.. WHy did God not just move him and his family to another place.. Seems it would have been so much easier than building an ark.. and putting noah and his family through a year in it.

One of the many reasons I can not buy a local flood
The wickedness of man was just local.;)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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So we have 75 years to 120 years for noah to build the ark.

Yet you believe in a local flood.. WHy did God not just move him and his family to another place.. Seems it would have been so much easier than building an ark.. and putting noah and his family through a year in it.

One of the many reasons I can not buy a local flood
The verbiage tells me all I need to know...Peter said the WORLD that then WAS perished being overflowed with water....look up the Greek version and what it means....

ὁ τότε κόσμος<-----Gives a whole new weight to the WINDOWS of the heaven and the fountains of deep being burst open.....
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
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I personally don't believe the flood was world-wide in scope. Often, when the bible says "all the earth", its doesn't mean global, but is referring to a specific area affected by what's being described. The deluge was huge, but imo limited to the wickedness which infected the descendents of Adam, it was all the land they occupied that flooded. Therefore, Noah did not take 2 of every species on earth, but only those animals indigenous to his area.

Genesis 6:15 states that Noah's ark was 300 cubits by 50 cubits by 30 cubits in size. We know that a cubit was approximately 18 inches, yielding a volume (if perfectly rectangular, the most voluminous possible shape of three unequal dimensions) of 1,518,750 cubic feet. Into this, you must fit two of each of the 30,000,000 species on earth, plus all the food needed to keep all of them alive for about a year (add up the timeline).
If this were true, it would not be physically possible to put two of each animal species on earth, plus a years' worth of food for all of them, in a volume of that size.



 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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So we have 75 years to 120 years for noah to build the ark.

Yet you believe in a local flood.. WHy did God not just move him and his family to another place.. Seems it would have been so much easier than building an ark.. and putting noah and his family through a year in it.

One of the many reasons I can not buy a local flood
Because it had to be the image of Christ. The building of the giant ark was the time for unbelievers to repent before the judgement.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Because it had to be the image of Christ. The building of the giant ark was the time for unbelievers to repent before the judgement.
sorry,, That does not cut it for me.. God could have used other ways..
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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sorry,, That does not cut it for me.. God could have used other ways..
Sentence "God could have used other ways" can be said to everything, from creation of the universe to the cross of Christ.
So I do not think this is a valid counter argument.

God used the way that is the best. He could not choose the way that is not the most wise, because of His wisdom and character.

Why do we have two hands? Why not three? God could make it to be three. Because two hands are the best number of hands.

Many events had and have also symbolic meaning, God provides them in this way very apparently. In the OT is almost everything also a symbol of something in the NT.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Someone mentioned it raining 43 days in California, And I asked how deep the flood was.. Did not get an answer, the person may have not seen the question yet Anyway.

The reason is that the flood did not kill all people in california is the rain seeks to level itself out It will rais until it reaches the banks of the river, or creek or whatever, then overspill. then seek for the next highest barrier, Until it reaches that barrier, it will spread out.. California of course has the issue of the great ocean, In order for it to get deep enough to flood California completely, the depth of the ocean would have to rise to the point that California is completely under water. Of course, if the depth of the oceans did this, Then not only would California be flooded, But New York, In fact, Most of the US would be under water from both oceans (because all oceans are connected, they all would have to rise in depth, you would not have one ocean higher than another for any length of time, It would even out and spread out until unity is maintained) Which if you think of it, Just to completely flood the American continent, The oceans would have to reach the depth of the tallest mountain in the north/south American continents, Which would pretty much mean most of the world is also flooded (the tallest mountain ranges could still be out of the water if only the Americas were flooded)

which would still make the flood a GLOBAL event.

reason number 2 I can not buy into a local flood event.

1. The flood would have to be contained by hills (much like a lake is contained)
2. could not touch any of the oceans, because then the whole ocean complex would have to raise. making its impact felt around the globe)
3. We are told it rained for 40 days. Yet the waters were on the earth for 1 year. A local flood would have dissipated much faster than a year.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Sentence "God could have used other ways" can be said to everything, from creation of the universe to the cross of Christ.
So I do not think this is a valid counter argument.

God used the way that is the best. He could not choose the way that is not the most wise, because of His wisdom and character.

Why do we have two hands? Why not three? God could make it to be three. Because two hands are the best number of hands.

Many events had and have also symbolic meaning, God provides them in this way very apparently. In the OT is almost everything also a symbol of something in the NT.
You say there is NO WAY possible a global flood .

All I have to do is show that it is POSSIBLE that one did.

Using the excuse that God did it as a symbol is no proof that a global flood did not occur, That's my point, and there is no way you can counter that point.

Yes it is possible that your right, But you can not prove it..
 
Aug 25, 2016
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It would depend on which flood your talking about. There were TWO you know. I wrote this in a previous post.

Three Earth Ages Three Heaven Ages. NotThree Earths Not Three Heavens. At this time we are in the SecondEarth Age. The First Earth Age having past after Satan and his followers rebelled. It must have been Heaven on Earth witch it was.Tulips and other plant life have been found in Alaska in the frozen tundra. They wont grow there now but they did then. The North pole isoff we know that. There is a difference of about 500 kilometers between Geographic North and Magnetic North poles. Genesisz1:28 AndGod blessed them and said unto them be fruitful and multiply and REPLENISH the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish ofthe sea and over the fowl of the air and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Notice the word REPLENISH. To fill to a FORMER level. Restore etc.
2 Peter 3:5-7 For this they willingly are ignorant of that by the word of God the heavens WERE of OLD and the earth standing out of the water and in the water. 6 Whereby theworld that THEN WAS being overflowed with water perished. 7 But the heavens and the earth witch are now by the same word are kept instore reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Peter explains it very well.
I know some say this is the flood of Noah's time but that's not so. Read on.
Jeremiah 4:22-26 For my people is foolish they have not known me they are sottish children and they have none understanding they are wise to do evil but to do good they have no knowledge. 23 I beheld the earth and lo it was without formand void and the heavens and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains and lo they TREMBLED and all the HILLS MOVED LIGHTLY. 25 I beheld and lo there was NO MAN and all the BIRDS of the heavens wereFLED. These verses tell us how it was when and after God shook the Heavens and the Earth. This is what moved us into the Earth age weare in now.

I might also add Noah and his family weren't the only humans on the ark. God told Noah to get two of every flesh and people are flesh. If there were only Noah and his family on the ark how did we still have all the races of today. Although these people were not up to Noah's standard they were still people and to continue the races as created they were included. I know this will cause some to call me crazy but so be it.
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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You say there is NO WAY possible a global flood .

All I have to do is show that it is POSSIBLE that one did.

Using the excuse that God did it as a symbol is no proof that a global flood did not occur, That's my point, and there is no way you can counter that point.

Yes it is possible that your right, But you can not prove it..
I am saying it would have to be a miracle - God dit it, God cleaned it so we cant find it anymore. This is the way how it is possible.

If we are working with evidence that is left - the original ancient text without 21st glasses, with geology, datation, history, physics, logic, common sense etc, it could not be planetary.

So the question should be - Did God used millions of miracles during and after the flood? Because naturally it could not happen globally.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am saying it would have to be a miracle - God dit it, God cleaned it so we cant find it anymore. This is the way how it is possible.

If we are working with evidence that is left - the original ancient text without 21st glasses, with geology, datation, history, physics, logic, common sense etc, it could not be planetary.

So the question should be - Did God used millions of miracles during and after the flood? Because naturally it could not happen globally.

Still does not PROVE a local flood event.

I have no problem discussion ideas. And will be the first to admit, I may be wrong,, We all may be wrong, and it is something non of us would have thought of.

what I am against is saying it is a local flood no matter what, it is a global flood no matter what. And the division which occurs between the two groups..
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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I might also add Noah and his family weren't the only humans on the ark. God told Noah to get two of every flesh and people are flesh. If there were only Noah and his family on the ark how did we still have all the races of today. Although these people were not up to Noah's standard they were still people and to continue the races as created they were included. I know this will cause some to call me crazy but so be it.
Give me scriptural proof that there were other humans on the ark, beside Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives.
The Bible did NOT say "two of every flesh" ... it said either 7 pairs of clean animals, or two of every animal.... NOT every flesh. Bad reading comprehension.

The Bible says 8 people were saved on the ark ... 8 .....which pretty much rules out any other people being on the ark... unless your goal is to re-write scripture, which I believe a lot of people in this thread are trying to do.

Why is it so difficult for you to simply believe what God TOLD us?
 
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abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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Someone mentioned it raining 43 days in California, And I asked how deep the flood was.. Did not get an answer, the person may have not seen the question yet Anyway.

The reason is that the flood did not kill all people in california is the rain seeks to level itself out It will rais until it reaches the banks of the river, or creek or whatever, then overspill. then seek for the next highest barrier, Until it reaches that barrier, it will spread out.. California of course has the issue of the great ocean, In order for it to get deep enough to flood California completely, the depth of the ocean would have to rise to the point that California is completely under water. Of course, if the depth of the oceans did this, Then not only would California be flooded, But New York, In fact, Most of the US would be under water from both oceans (because all oceans are connected, they all would have to rise in depth, you would not have one ocean higher than another for any length of time, It would even out and spread out until unity is maintained) Which if you think of it, Just to completely flood the American continent, The oceans would have to reach the depth of the tallest mountain in the north/south American continents, Which would pretty much mean most of the world is also flooded (the tallest mountain ranges could still be out of the water if only the Americas were flooded)

which would still make the flood a GLOBAL event.

reason number 2 I can not buy into a local flood event.

1. The flood would have to be contained by hills (much like a lake is contained)
2. could not touch any of the oceans, because then the whole ocean complex would have to raise. making its impact felt around the globe)
3. We are told it rained for 40 days. Yet the waters were on the earth for 1 year. A local flood would have dissipated much faster than a year.

I agree that it was a global event.

I've seen a couple of shows on TV that said that the water levels of the ocean were at least 100' or more lower than they are now.

The men were studying an ancient shore line in the Black Sea about 100' deep.

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This would explain why there was no evidence of civilizations that existed pre-flood.

People are just now becoming aware and exploring the ocean floor.

It may be that in many places that there are cities under the waters that are yet undiscovered.

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There are 2 things that I was thinking about.


1. The amount of water and the power of the water to change the landscape.

The event that occurred to cause the flood was large, effecting the whole planet.

The forces of the water moving in currents of this magnitude, would have wiped away mountains and changed climates.

Could it be that Egypt, was once a much more elevated landscape?

That surging, rushing waters wiped the terrain to the bedrock and left oceans of sand?

Was the rock of Gibraltar a mountain chain that held back the waters, so that the water built up behind the mountains to a height of several thousand feet? (10,000')

Just think for a moment, what if the water in the Mediterranean Ocean was 100' lower than it is now.

All that water, pouring into that basin, like a bath tub over flowing, but with the power of a fire hose.


2. How far did the ark travel from it's original starting point?

How far would a ship drift/travel in a day, in a raging storm with high winds and currents (40 days) and then drift for 110 days? (average)

10 mi per day X 150 days (Gen 7:24) = 1500 mi From the starting point.

20 mi per day X 150 = 3000 mi

I don't know, I'm guessing.

We traditionally think that the garden was in the Middle East.

But if the ark traveled that far, and the landscape changed that much,

How would they have any idea where they were, in relation to where they started?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Still does not PROVE a local flood event.

I have no problem discussion ideas. And will be the first to admit, I may be wrong,, We all may be wrong, and it is something non of us would have thought of.

what I am against is saying it is a local flood no matter what, it is a global flood no matter what. And the division which occurs between the two groups..
Was it a series of millions of huge miracles? And then God hidden it and created geological columns of simple-to-complex organisms to confuse us? If so, it is possible.

Naturally it is not possible, just because of logic, physics, geology... and there is nothing in the Bible that needs the 21st century planetary view. So actually - why to bother with the global flood theory? What makes you to work with it?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Was it a series of millions of huge miracles? And then God hidden it and created geological columns of simple-to-complex organisms to confuse us? If so, it is possible.

Naturally it is not possible, just because of logic, physics, geology... and there is nothing in the Bible that needs the 21st century planetary view. So actually - why to bother with the global flood theory? What makes you to work with it?

why bother with a local flood theory?What makes you want to attack your bretheryn just to prove a point.

I have looked at the evidence, I see prove of complete flood. Whether you see it or not does not matter. Nor would I force you or attack you if you disagree with it.

A global flood or not does not change my walk with God. My salvation or my love for my bretheryn.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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ho tote kosmos meant the inhabited world as known to Noah then. Full stop.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
ho tote kosmos meant the inhabited world as known to Noah then. Full stop.
This is what I am talking about.

No discussion, Just your way or else.

And people wonder why chrisitanity is seen as the most hostile group on earth.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I might also add Noah and his family weren't the only humans on the ark. God told Noah to get two of every flesh and people are flesh. If there were only Noah and his family on the ark how did we still have all the races of today. Although these people were not up to Noah's standard they were still people and to continue the races as created they were included. I know this will cause some to call me crazy but so be it.
God told Noah to take seven pairs of each clean animal, seven pairs of each bird, and one pair of each unclean animal. As to the people on the ark, only Noah's family was to be spared. From Genesis 6:

I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you.

Genesis 7:
The Lord then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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why bother with a local flood theory?What makes you want to attack your bretheryn just to prove a point.

I have looked at the evidence, I see prove of complete flood. Whether you see it or not does not matter. Nor would I force you or attack you if you disagree with it.

A global flood or not does not change my walk with God. My salvation or my love for my bretheryn.
because a large flood and a global flood are two different conceptions. And we have to be careful as to what the Scripture actually says and means. My love for my brethren demands this, lest they be led astray.