For my Dear Sisters in Christ

[ChristianUk13]

If a man wants to envoke wives submit to your husands, then the woman should remind him of the rest of it, that men are ment to treat women as Christ treats the church, that is to love unconditionally and give support and help. Does Christ beat us when we do not give him his dinner on time? Course not.

Perhaps. alternatively, the man should already know if his walk is close to the Lord, or alternatively were he to actually read and practice 'love your wives'...as 'Christ' loved the church. A woman should not have to remind the man, it's not like reminding her to get his favourite food from the store. You can't just forget how to treat a woman. Agricola, this is not aimed at you but a comment to reach the Christian men in general.

If God is in the centre and the husband fulfils his role and duty in this manner , then the wife will automatically submit out of love and adoration, just as we submit to Christ out of adoration and love.

Yes I agree. However, I could say stuff about this 'submission' - but the statements on this thread are to encourage men to treat their partners like Christ does.

 

[twofeet]

If you were submitting to the Lord, you wouldn't be talking to Christian men with such a haughty attitude. It's inappropriate for other men to do this, let alone women.

Saying I have a "haughty" attitude IS personal. Dont deny things that are in clear view of everyone else.

 

[twofeet]

If my understanding of scripture is different to your understanding of scripture, one must be false. Mine is the understanding that does not contradict scripture.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Correct.
What does 1 Corinthians 11:3 mean?
Who deceived Eve?
Please quote the personal attack I made against you. I don't believe I made one. Declaring a teaching to be false is not a personal attack.

Please also let me refer you to shill tactic #2. You are not discussing keys issues or facts, but are becoming incredulous and accusing me of making personal attacks. This isn't the way to prove your point.

2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the “How dare you!” gambit.

Have I not said that a husband is the spiritual head of the woman? Did I contradict anything? I think not.

 

[ChristianUk13]

This is primarily a feminist thread. The aim of feminism is to destroy relationships between men and women. What feminists do and how they treat men is not what normal women do, or how normal women treat men....

How can Jonathon/ others remotely suggest that this thread is about feminism. Twofeet and I were trying to encourage men to treat their wife or partner the same way Christ loves the church. Christ said this not me, so take it up with Him!

What is the problem anyway? Why does it cause so much offence?

As you rightly point out, it doesn't make sense for a marriage not to have an authority. But feminists aren't taught things should make sense - they propagate a self-worshiping ideology.

Those who often go on about feminism really have no real idea save a recycled version. There is in any event a large difference between women's general rights and feminism, but this forum is not the place to do the subject justice. I thought I was the dyslexic one, please stick to the topic at hand!

 

[ChristianUk13]

True.
And the mainstream media they infiltrated and now dominate, brainwashes society with their ideology, under the false labels of "freedom", "human rights", "tolerance", etc.....

Communism has deviated from a discussion on women being treated by the Christian man in her life in love.

Communists deceitfully use labels and change labels to suit their agenda.
For example "communists" has been changed to "progressives".

Sadly there are more communists/progressives around today than there was in the past.

'Communists' is such a broad ideology - but the concept of communism will have a negative press in Western economies built on capitalistic principles. MR i think you have a narrow understanding of communism based on your posts.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

Saying I have a "haughty" attitude IS personal. Dont deny things that are in clear view of everyone else.

Definition of haughty - scornfully and condescendingly proud.

1. I have never been married to a christian guy so have NEVER suffered the wounds of "spiritual "abuse or control.

If I said "I have never been married to a Christian woman so have NEVER suffered the wounds from a smart mouth and nagging" such a statement would be both scornful of Christian wives, and condescendingly proud - haughty. Your statement was haughty, and this is what I stated - a fact, not a personal attack.

Have I not said that a husband is the spiritual head of the woman? Did I contradict anything? I think not.

The husband, or the man? The text says the man.

 

[twofeet]

Definition of haughty - scornfully and condescendingly proud.



If I said "I have never been married to a Christian woman so have NEVER suffered the wounds from a smart mouth and nagging" such a statement would be both scornful of Christian wives, and condescendingly proud - haughty. Your statement was haughty, and this is what I stated - a fact, not a personal attack.

The husband, or the man? The text says the man.

So you now say I am "scornfully and condescendingly proud".......you know my heart do you? You can judge my heart? Interesting then when the disciples picked 2 guys to replace Judas they had the wisdom to ask GOD which one was right because ONLY God knows a person's heart. You are now stepping into Gods shoes in trying to judge me.

 

[ChristianUk13]

This is primarily a feminist thread....

No, it is mainly a forum which is intended an appeal for Christian gentlemen to love their wife/ partner they way they ought to, biblically speaking.

...The aim of feminism is to destroy relationships between men and women...
What feminists do and how they treat men is not what normal women do, or how normal women treat men...

Yes this is true to a large extent, MR; feminists may even believe rights beyond women's equality. In an case MR, if this is true what you were saying, how can a discussion which is intended to illuminate the minds of Christian men to treat their partners like human beings be same as feminism (by your definition)?

As you rightly point out, it doesn't make sense for a marriage not to have an authority. But feminists aren't taught things should make sense - they propagate a self-worshiping ideology.

Yes MR feminists have sadly taken women's rights, which in this country were fought for by its heroines Emilene Pankhurst etc, to the extreme, even though the consequence destroys the idea of family.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

So you now say I am "scornfully and condescendingly proud".......you know my heart do you? You can judge my heart? Interesting then when the disciples picked 2 guys to replace Judas they had the wisdom to ask GOD which one was right because ONLY God knows a person's heart. You are now stepping into Gods shoes in trying to judge me.

Your posts were haughty. I have provided evidence, and I think anyone with a fair mind can see this. If you can't, the problem is between you and God, and not one that I can resolve.

We could argue all day - me saying your posts were haughty, you saying they were not, but I for one have better things to do, and I doubt such an argument would get very far anyway. My comment was not a personal attack, just a statement of truth easily seen by any fair-minded individual. I don't wish you any ill will, but neither do I like posts that cause contention for no benefit, which is the reason for my comments on this subject to begin with.

 

[ChristianUk13]

I realize that all threads are open for anyone to post but even so I clearly read in the original post that this was directed by Twofeet to women....

...So I stayed away. Unfortunately now the men have over run this thread and are posting twice as much as the ladies. I am appaulded by this. If the ladies wish to have their own discussion amoungst themselves, surely us men can afford them this simple request.

View attachment 60885

True this was the intent, however - Christian guys have the command 'love your wives as Christ loved the church.' So therefore the main reason for this thread to educated the same guys. Imagine if Jesus never said 'as Christ loved the church' alternatively. It is scary but it is likely these men would not treat their wives etc better 'because the bible never says we should.' This would be very dumb, by the way! There is still this command nonetheless as Jesus indicated, and Paul stated, the greatest gift is 'love.'

 

[ChristianUk13]

I realize that all threads are open for anyone to post but even so I clearly read in the original post that this was directed by Twofeet to women. So I stayed away. Unfortunately now the men have over run this thread and are posting twice as much as the ladies. I am appaulded by this. If the ladies wish to have their own discussion amoungst themselves, surely us men can afford them this simple request.

View attachment 60885

True this was the intent, however - Christian guys have the command 'love your wives as Christ loved the church.' So therefore the main reason for this thread to educate the same guys. Imagine if Jesus never said 'as Christ loved the church' alternatively. It is scary but it is likely these men would not treat their wives etc better 'because the bible never says we should.' This would be very dumb, by the way! There is still this command nonetheless as Jesus indicated, and Paul stated, the greatest gift is 'love.'

 

[ChristianUk13]

Definition of haughty - scornfully and condescendingly proud...

Yes that is fair definition of haughty. But MR what you go on to say is not within the definition you set. You seem to do this quite often MR - you are able to cite the idea or its definition, but in practice you don't seem to have the skills to apply the idea proportionately to new subject matter. Do you realise when you do this that it is not Christ-like?

...If I said "I have never been married to a Christian woman so have NEVER suffered the wounds from a smart mouth and nagging" such a statement would be both scornful of Christian wives, and condescendingly proud - haughty..

Twofeet was considering a scenario as though she were married to a Christian guy, from the perspective of a Christian woman who is likely to be suffering abuse. So in this hypothetical situation, in the shoes of the abused Christian lady, Twofeet would in fact be basing her ideas on the abuse which she knows women go through. She was merely making observations, it was not being haughty within the definition which you produced. More importantly Two feet said this: 'NEVER suffered the wounds of "spiritual "abuse or control. I will stop here i as I feel more like an English tutor critiquing arguments than was my original aim, which was to represent Christian women.

Your statement was haughty, and this is what I stated - a fact, not a personal attack....The husband, or the man? The text says the man.

It was not haughty, MR. It may be more prudent for you to think about facts more fully before you endeavour to challenge statements, as this would be 'love.'

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

It was not haughty, MR. It may be more prudent for you to think about facts more fully before you endeavour to challenge statements, as this would be 'love.'

Truth is not determined by democracy, ChristianUK13. The statement in question, and other statements, were haughty, whether or not it is "politically correct" to deem them thus. Love is about doing and saying what is right - not necessarily what is popular, or "politically correct".

I don't intend to get into a debate with TwoFeet regarding this, and neither do I intend to debate the matter with you. I have already said that any fair-minded individual can see the statements for what they are.

 

[JoyofLord]

I totally agree with what you are saying and ladies if this is you here is some further teaching to back up what twofeet is saying Submission in Marriage. I know some ladies who are submitting to anal sex because their husbands are demanding it and they feel they have to submit. This is unbiblical, get help ladies if you are suffering in anyway. Reach out here on line privately if you have too.

Love Joy

 

[twofeet]

Your posts were haughty. I have provided evidence, and I think anyone with a fair mind can see this. If you can't, the problem is between you and God, and not one that I can resolve.

We could argue all day - me saying your posts were haughty, you saying they were not, but I for one have better things to do, and I doubt such an argument would get very far anyway. My comment was not a personal attack, just a statement of truth easily seen by any fair-minded individual. I don't wish you any ill will, but neither do I like posts that cause contention for no benefit, which is the reason for my comments on this subject to begin with.

How can you provide evidence of my attitude of which these things are written? Would you have sat there when Moses came down the mountain sharing all the things he had experienced and called him arrogant? "who does he think he is! Chatting like he is best mates with God or something! Look at him, he thinks he is sumat special!".....what people SAY is one thing....the attitude of the heart it came from is another matter. So your accusations of my heart motives ...and yes, they are ACCUSATIONS are unfounded...because you do not know my heart.

I am not arguing with you, neither am I angry with your responses.

So I ask you, have you actually asked GOD to show you my heart in this? Have you asked GOD if anything I have brought to this thread is correct? Or are you judging everything from your OWN understanding?

As I have said and will repeat. If you do not know how to discuss with other Christians the differences of understanding WITHOUT attacking and accusing then you have no place on a CHRISTIAN forum.

 

[my_adonai_]

The word of God through Paul was very simple and clear, husband to love the wife, as Christ loves the Church. I guess men complicate this with the concept of being head, forgetting that even if men are Head, they still have to BE HUMBLE...

Something to ponder, why paul said that the man is the HEAD of the family...

 

[twofeet]

The word of God through Paul was very simple and clear, husband to love the wife, as Christ loves the Church. I guess men complicate this with the concept of being head, forgetting that even if men are Head, they still have to BE HUMBLE...

Something to ponder, why paul said that the man is the HEAD of the family...

I guess the word "love" is hard to understand for some my_adonai_...but I think "love is not SELF seeking" is a great start.

Example 1: Wife comes home from work full of excitement as the bosses have decided to pay for a Christmas works party. Husband pulls rank and says " Im sorry honey but your not going. It is not godly for you to be out partying with non-christians where drinking is involved and men will be trying to hit on you.

Example 2: Wife comes home from work full of excitement as the bosses have decided to pay for a Christmas works party. Husband cant wait to buy his wife an outfit so she can look beautiful. He then spends time in prayer with her, praying that God will protect her and give her chances to be salt, be light, be kingdom to people fully confident in HER walk with God that she is able to stand IN the world but not be of it.

One speaks of control, insecurities and bondage the other speaks of love, freedom and the correct way to spiritually protect a woman.

 

[Yahshua]

Well...I think it would be more proper for the Husband & Wife to be one in this decision; for both to get dressed up an go to the party together, as - to me - that would show his true love for her (i.e. protection for her by him from any temptation from the enemy, as a wife should always have her protective head covering or she's exposed). This is *exactly* what Adam didn't do for his Wife; he didn't cover her (i.e. didn't get in the way of the serpent's sweet words), and so she succumbed to temptation. Also, this choice would show her true love for him (i.e. honoring him by proudly testifying to all that he's her Husband, unwilling to go to any social gathering without him because they're one).

Only if the husband wasn't allowed to go would I say example 1 would be the best choice. Otherwise, they should go together.

 

[proverbs35]

True this was the intent, however - Christian guys have the command 'love your wives as Christ loved the church.' So therefore the main reason for this thread to educated the same guys. Imagine if Jesus never said 'as Christ loved the church' alternatively. It is scary but it is likely these men would not treat their wives etc better 'because the bible never says we should.' This would be very dumb, by the way! There is still this command nonetheless as Jesus indicated, and Paul stated, the greatest gift is 'love.'

All too often, that's what many people miss about Paul and his teachings. So much more emphasis had been (and often still is) put on a wife's duty to submit, but in Ep 5, for the first time ever in history, Paul addressed and emphasized a husband's duty to love his wife. Yes, Paul taught about a wife's duty to submit. However, he was merely recapping an age old teaching, but the idea that a husband should "love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" and "love his wife as his own body" was revolutionary. Many of Paul's teachings - husband's duty to love his wife, treat her with understanding, honor and as a joint heir of the grace of life - helped elevate the status of women and the status of marriage itself. No longer was marriage to be considered a mere master and slave union the way it had been in the Old Testament, but New Testament marriage is symbolic of Christ's relationship with the church. Wow!!!


As we know, Jesus came and did so much on earth. One of those things being to role model the way in which a groom should love and sacrifice himself for his bride. It's sort of interesting how submission had been going on for centuries whether voluntary or by force. However, it was necessary for Christ to come to earth in the flesh to literally show us how to love. That's the greatest lesson, and yet it's the hardest for us to learn.

 

[thecreationtutor]

The end of the verse in Ephesians says, unto the Lord - which says that if He's going against what God has said, not bound to submit - if it's not loving, edifying, building, washing in the word, honest, righteous, completely free to say no and let him fall on his face