Free will ? Is it always a choice

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,350
29,595
113
#41
A person has a will, but the person is not a will. Nor is the will a person.
Nor is the person's will "free." That concept does not exist in the Bible.

You did not answer my question to you. Here it is again:

How do slaves to sin have a will that is free?
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#42
selahsays … We have a merciful Father and whether or not He heals or doesn’t heal, it’s up to Him. He hears our prayers of faith and He will always answer them according to His will. God does not hold those who, for whatever reason, aren’t able to choose to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, responsible. Our God is always fair.
hi selah welcome to the will friend, yes we must always believe with hope all children will be healed,

Will power is also a form of self-control a fruit of the spirit which has the control for you to hope in abundance for the things unseen 🙂
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
2,530
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#43
Nor is the person's will "free." That concept does not exist in the Bible.

You did not answer my question to you. Here it is again:

How do slaves to sin have a will that is free?
Pharaoh had a choice....until he didn't.
Ham had a choice....until he didn't.
Lot had a choice....until he didn't.
Esau had a choice....until he didn't.
Sampson had a choice....until he didn't.
King Saul had a choice....until he didn't.

Need I contunue?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,350
29,595
113
#44
Pharaoh had a choice....until he didn't.
Ham had a choice....until he didn't.
Lot had a choice....until he didn't.
Esau had a choice....until he didn't.
Sampson had a choice....until he didn't.
King Saul had a choice....until he didn't.

Need I continue?
Continue what? Having and making choices is not the same as having free will.

As said in post #37:
there is no free will mentioned in the Bible at all, aside from freewill offerings.

That does not mean we do not make choices...
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
2,530
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#45
Continue what? Having and making choices is not the same as having free will.
Pharoah hardened his own heart until God hardened it for him.

Each of these situations I delineated were where these people believed they had no choice left but to do as they did. Up to their "critical moments" they could make any choice possible. Much of which was caused by lots of small choices leading up to decisive moments that sent them on a path of slavery to their sins.

Sure, I'm sure they felt like they had free will....but had been out maneuvered long before.
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
676
324
63
#46
How do slaves to sin have a will that is free?
Free from what?

Here are some things the Bible doesn’t say:
And deliver THE WILLS WHICH through fear of death were all their EXISTENCE subject to bondage
no WILL can come unto me, except it were given unto IT of my Father
If the Son therefore shall make YOUR WILL free, YOUR WILL shall be free indeed
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made MY WILL free from the law of sin and death
WHATSOEVER WILL committeth sin is the servant of sin
Being then made free from sin, YOUR WILLS became the servants of righteousness

Don’t get a person and their will mixed up.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,350
29,595
113
#47
Don’t get a person and their will mixed up.
Your comment makes no sense.

Scripture plainly states that people are slaves to sin, yet you want to believe they are free.

That they have "free will," which is a concept nowhere found in the Bible.

Having the ability to make choices does not mean your will is free.

The will is constrained by many factors.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,350
29,595
113
#48
Since you reject the Scripture I gave on it, why don't you see if you can fly yourself to the moon?
No? Right. The laws of physics constrain your will, also. Try to will yourself into not having to eat
or drink or sleep ever again. No? Right. Your will is constrained by your biological imperatives, too.
Man is born into sin, is bound to sin, and is a slave to sin until set free through a Spiritual rebirth.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
2,530
113
#49
Your comment makes no sense.

Scripture plainly states that people are slaves to sin, yet you want to believe they are free.

That they have "free will," which is a concept nowhere found in the Bible.

Having the ability to make choices does not mean your will is free.

The will is constrained by many factors.
You are either a slave to sin....which is equivalent to death.
OR
You are God's slave and get to live. "My burden is light and my yoke is easy"

Seems like freedom by far comparison.

Mmmmm.....tough choice here....lol
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,350
29,595
113
#50
You are either a slave to sin....which is equivalent to death.
OR
You are God's slave and get to live. "My burden is light and my yoke is easy"

Seems like freedom by far comparison.

Mmmmm.....tough choice here....lol
Thank you for clarifying, John .:). And good morning! .:D

I am at my daughter's place right now and have four cats to feed while keeping
three of them away from my own
.:unsure:. It is quite the juggling act LOL
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#52
Thank you for clarifying, John .:). And good morning! .:D

I am at my daughter's place right now and have four cats to feed while keeping
three of them away from my own
.:unsure:. It is quite the juggling act LOL
I bet your free will, will decide at some point to let cats be cats 😋😆🙂.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
2,530
113
#53
Thank you for clarifying, John .:). And good morning! .:D

I am at my daughter's place right now and have four cats to feed while keeping
three of them away from my own
.:unsure:. It is quite the juggling act LOL
Well,
Its not like God comes to us for advice and consent on His plans. We don't tell God what to do. We need God. God definitely doesn't need us. So....we are either subservient to God or subservient to sin.

On a side note:

My house came with 2 cats.

Or as they like to believe that their house just got 2 new humans.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,181
5,727
113
#54
We here of stories of people going into a vegetated state for the rest of there life from being normal they loose the ability to communicate, some not being fully conscious, from illnesses like meningitis to the brain. And other illnesses

sometimes this happens from an early age.

Thoughts please
In the gospel spiritual possession was an issue that caused a lot of things we call disorders and mental illnesses

Just an example of an evil spirit causing someone to. Ot be able to speak or hear and along with many other issues

“And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit; and wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not. And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming. And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child. And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us. Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead. But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:17-18, 20-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus asked how long since it came upon him ?

I think spiritual issues are prevalent but no one believes it anymore so we take pills to mask these deep spiritual issues and they never get healed just hidden

In the gospel spiritual possession is a common thing that caused an array of physical and mental problems but they n modernity we think it’s silly to consider spiritual causes of things

my point is there is circumstance and then there is free Will after
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#55
In the gospel spiritual possession was an issue that caused a lot of things we call disorders and mental illnesses

Just an example of an evil spirit causing someone to. Ot be able to speak or hear and along with many other issues

“And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit; and wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not. And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming. And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child. And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us. Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead. But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:17-18, 20-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus asked how long since it came upon him ?

I think spiritual issues are prevalent but no one believes it anymore so we take pills to mask these deep spiritual issues and they never get healed just hidden

In the gospel spiritual possession is a common thing that caused an array of physical and mental problems but they n modernity we think it’s silly to consider spiritual causes of things

my point is there is circumstance and then there is free Will after
it just not fair a child could be possessed,

I don't see how a child has choice to be possessed what is going on with this scripture