Fulling expecting this to be a short thread !

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Sep 6, 2014
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#21
Joh_11:35 Jesus wept... Curious as to others thoughts on why Jesus wept. What are your thoughts , does the 'why' even matter to you? I dont have a 'revelation' on this, not building a doctrine or theology. Simply asking for your views. Over the years i have heard different theories, as most of us have. Did those sermons or teachings give you any insight?
Jesus was showing compassion for His friend(s).
 
Feb 20, 2021
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#23
if Christ ((Who IS our assurance)) is afraid He is expressing total lack of assurance.

that's blasphemy. if it is expressing humanity at all, it is expressing unbelieving, faithless humanity.

if Christ is faithless, all salvation is void.
Bizarre. Since you seem to have the answers, be sure not to avoid my questions . . . as so many do, here.

Luke 22:42-44 NKJV - ". . . saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done." 43 Then an angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him. 44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground."

1) Why would Jesus pray that "this cup" would be taken from Him?
2) If Jesus needed strengthening, what was His weakness?
3) What kind of "agony" was Jesus suffering from? He wasn't taken captive as of yet.
4) What does it mean that His sweat became like drops of blood?
5) Why was Jesus sweating? Was it hot in early April?
 
Feb 20, 2021
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#25
the Bible itself affirms & plainly states all of these had sin.
& affirms clearly that Christ has no sin whatsoever at any time.
You are the one who is asserting that fear of torture is sin. I've never seen such a statement anywhere within the Bible. What you are asserting is that fear is equated to the likes of murder.

1) Thou shalt not be afraid.
2) Thou shalt not murder.

There is no precedence for such looney thinking. Sorry, but this is whacked. To equate being afraid of torture and murder as blasphemy is crazy. I can't believe you're saying this stuff. I've followed you for a solid year and I don't ever recall you saying such gnarly things.
 
Feb 20, 2021
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#26
i do not agree with what i perceive is your position/understanding of this point;
i will begin to explain:


how many times did Jesus say "do not be afraid" ?
why?


if Jesus is doubting whether the cross is a good idea, He is doubting God = sin.
if Jesus is afraid of death, He is doubting God = sin.
if Jesus is afraid of pain, He is idolizing comfort = sin.


there are no two ways about this, and it isn't a denial of humanity. fear in us is weakness and doubting the power of God and idolizing our own pleasure. it's sin. if God tells you to do something, and you waver because it's going to be "uncomfortable" for you in any measure, how is that not sin?

Christ is not weeping because He is full of self-pity or doubt. He is human, but He is **perfect** humanity, not sinful, unfaithful, vain humanity. if it is in any way otherwise, there is no salvation. our hope is not in someone fallible, wavering & weak but in God who is perfect in wisdom, perfect in power, perfect in faithfulness and perfect in steadfastness.

we are not meant to 'feel sorry for Christ God' when we think of what He did. Almighty God is not to be pitied.
What a bizarre way of interpreting Scripture.
 
May 3, 2017
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#27
the Bible itself affirms & plainly states all of these had sin.
& affirms clearly that Christ has no sin whatsoever at any time.


therefore He never lacks faith, never wavers in doubt, and is never afraid.
anything less is blasphemy.
Hi Post...
I have a question...
Do you think that Jesus suffered in the garden because He knew He would for a moment be separated from His Father when on the cross ?...I mean , He knew that He was going to be crucified , He must of thought about it a lot , yet never had He been separated from God , so maybe that is why He was in so much anguish , because He knew He was going to rise , just a thought...
...xox...
 
Feb 20, 2021
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#28
Hi Post...
I have a question...
Do you think that Jesus suffered in the garden because He knew He would for a moment be separated from His Father when on the cross ?...I mean , He knew that He was going to be crucified , He must of thought about it a lot , yet never had He been separated from God , so maybe that is why He was in so much anguish , because He knew He was going to rise , just a thought...
...xox...
Pretty obvious, isn't it?
 
May 3, 2017
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#29
Pretty obvious, isn't it?
Well not really , I mean , we can all come up with ideas of our own...Jesus feared nothing , He counted the cross as Joy , but the thought of being separated from His Father I believe was the anguish that He felt...It was alien to Him , yet He did it for our sakes , the sinless One , who took on the wrath of His Father for us...Oh how I love my Lord...
...xox...
 
Feb 20, 2021
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#30
Virtually all agree that the below David is a reflection of the coming Christ, hence the below words:

Psalm 22:1-2, 18-19 ESV - 1 "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, from the words of my groaning? 2 O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer, and by night, but I find no rest. ... 18 they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots. 19 But you, O LORD, do not be far off! O you my help, come quickly to my aid!"
 
Feb 20, 2021
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#31
Well not really , I mean , we can all come up with ideas of our own...Jesus feared nothing , He counted the cross as Joy , but the thought of being separated from His Father I believe was the anguish that He felt...It was alien to Him , yet He did it for our sakes , the sinless One , who took on the wrath of His Father for us...Oh how I love my Lord...
...xox...
Being struck in the face, tortured and murdered is not a joyous experience. It is critical that we understand what is meant by the word "joy" in this context. How is suffering joyous? It isn't, but in the grand scheme of things, we count our sufferings as "joy" because of what it means. And what does our suffering mean? It means that we were Chosen . . . and this is Powerful. Once a person realizes that their painful suffering stems from the Ways of God not being like our ways, then we can see that we are on the Right and Holy path. Then and only then can we understand that our sufferings might produce "joy" . . . but there is no joy or happiness in being beaten, or stoned to death, or raped.
 
Feb 20, 2021
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#32
Should the concubine be "joyous" during the below event?

Judges 19:24-27 NIV - "Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don't do such an outrageous thing." 25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. 27 When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold."

Or, if a woman knew that she was about to be raped so many times that it would kill her, would it be sinful if she were afraid?

Ridiculous.
 
May 3, 2017
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#33
Being struck in the face, tortured and murdered is not a joyous experience. It is critical that we understand what is meant by the word "joy" in this context. How is suffering joyous? It isn't, but in the grand scheme of things, we count our sufferings as "joy" because of what it means. And what does our suffering mean? It means that we were Chosen . . . and this is Powerful. Once a person realizes that their painful suffering stems from the Ways of God not being like our ways, then we can see that we are on the Right and Holy path. Then and only then can we understand that our sufferings might produce "joy" . . . but there is no joy or happiness in being beaten, or stoned to death, or raped.
I did not say there was any joy in the horrific abuse our Lord suffered by mans hands...
I thought you may understand the Joy of the finality...

Hebrews 12;2

looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
 
Feb 20, 2021
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#34
I did not say there was any joy in the horrific abuse our Lord suffered by mans hands...
I thought you may understand the Joy of the finality...

Hebrews 12;2

looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
Posthuman is saying that we should be joyous over being tortured. Not yourself. . . :) - He quoted the same verse.
 
Feb 20, 2021
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#35
This form of "joy" is another way of saying "I am honored" to suffer for the sake of Christ.

At 12 years of age, I was in the process of being molested by my boy scout master on the side of Mt Baker. No one was around for miles. I feared for my life, thinking that I'd be raped, murdered, and dumped in the snow only to be found the next spring.

There is no one alive that is capable of convincing me that I was in sin for my fears. It is offensive for any jerk of a person to suggest such lunacy or to supplant that kind of thinking upon anyone's heart.
 
May 3, 2017
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#36
Posthuman is saying that we should be joyous over being tortured. Not yourself. . . :) - He quoted the same verse.
1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.
Maybe he had this in mind ?
There are lots of Scriptures about Joy in our trials and tribulations...I mean , the Martyrs , I believe they can and have gone through such torture for Christs name sake because they are completely covered by the power of the Holy Spirit , that keeps them through such horrific times , it is by His power that they can endure all suffering...We could not suffer for Jesus in our own strength...
...xox...
 
Feb 20, 2021
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#37
1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.
Maybe he had this in mind ?
There are lots of Scriptures about Joy in our trials and tribulations...I mean , the Martyrs , I believe they can and have gone through such torture for Christs name sake because they are completely covered by the power of the Holy Spirit , that keeps them through such horrific times , it is by His power that they can endure all suffering...We could not suffer for Jesus in our own strength...
...xox...
Go back and read what he/she wrote. Instead of Jesus being afraid (of torture), Posthuman said that Jesus was joyous. Lunacy.
 
Jul 31, 2013
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#40
Hi Post...
I have a question...
Do you think that Jesus suffered in the garden because He knew He would for a moment be separated from His Father when on the cross ?...I mean , He knew that He was going to be crucified , He must of thought about it a lot , yet never had He been separated from God , so maybe that is why He was in so much anguish , because He knew He was going to rise , just a thought...
...xox...
i think we should remember the whole psalm:


You have answered Me.
I will declare Your name to My brethren;
in the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
You who fear the Lord, praise Him!
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
and fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!
For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
nor has He hidden His face from Him;
but when He cried to Him, He heard!
(Psalm 22:21-24)

can God really be separated from Himself?
a house divided?