gal 3:10-12 to those who keep looking law ward.

[haz]

We need to examine to whom were the commandments given and why were they given? I do not say we should ignore them but they cannot make one righteous.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That's correct. The physical Jews were given the law/10 commandments, and they failed to attain righteousness by their works. They were an example to mankind that showed that the whole world is guilty before God, Rom 3:19.

But we see in Gal 3:24,25 that they law/10 commandments was a tutor to bring man to Christ. So after faith has come we are no longer under a tutor/law/10 commandments.

 

[Wall]

Originally Posted by Wall

Did Jesus keep the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath? Perfectly. Are we not to follow His example.

Originally Posted by Wall

None of us can keep the 10 commandments perfectly.





HAZ WRITES-Can you explain your contradiction above?


Matthew 5:47-48 (KJV)
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

No contradiction. We are told to try. The best we can do.

 

[haz]

Originally Posted by Wall

Did Jesus keep the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath? Perfectly. Are we not to follow His example.

Originally Posted by Wall

None of us can keep the 10 commandments perfectly.





HAZ WRITES-Can you explain your contradiction above?


Matthew 5:47-48 (KJV)
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

No contradiction. We are told to try. The best we can do.

We all know what "perfect" means.
And we all know that "try" or "the best we can do" is not the same as "perfect".

I'm curious though as to what is the minimum standard of "the best we can do" that you suggest God is ok with?
For example many Christians do not observe the Sabbath. Are they still righteous in spite of this?

But we see in Heb 10:14 that Christians have been perfected by Christ's offering.
Heb 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And how were believers sanctified?
Heb 10:10
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[Grandpa]

So grampa
Are you bearing false witness above. Could you show me where I said the Lord came to "save" bulls and goats and not men. Are you lying? Can you show me where I said this?

I understand you. You think you can lie and bear false witness and God doesn't care because you believe your not under the 10 commandments. You think you can do as you please and not obey God. Now theres a pretty sad theology. Good luck with that.

Now if you were not lying please post my words "only" where I made the claim God was saving bulls and goats and not men. If you are lying just write in your own words the story you wish to spread.

Post #643,646,647,660...

You are attempting to separate the Law into sections and say the Lord Jesus fulfilled the law of sacrifice only, the "ceremonial" law.

You are not showing that the Lord has fulfilled all the Law nor do I think you believe it.

So... If the Lord has only fulfilled a part of the Law then you are effectively saying that He is saving bulls and goats from being killed. What you don't understand is that if The Lord Jesus didn't fulfill all the Law then we are still guilty before it with no hope.

I don't expect you to see all of this as, but do you deny any of what I have said?

I'm not lying, this is the end result of what you are trying to teach. Its judaism without the bulls and goats. That's not Christianity. Christianity is a whole new Way.

The Lord Jesus says He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He says Abide in Him and He will grow the fruit. He says without Him we can do nothing.


If it is just about commandment keeping then why did He come down to die for us? Why not just say "keep the commandments" and let it stop there? Did He die just to save the bulls and goats from sacrifice?

 

[GreenNnice]

Galatians 3:10-12 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

becomes further explained by this:

What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[SUP]a[/SUP] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. 12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

If this is not about 'faith' in Him for our righteousness then what is it about.

Righteousness = right standing with God .

The Lord leads, it's not legalistic and it's not anything else, it's just KNOWING that He does speak to us through His Spirit to ours and we are to be led by His Spirit, as Romans 8:14 states

 

[Grandpa]

2 John 1:7 (KJV)
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


Didn't Jesus follow the law? Perfectly. Ofcourse He did. Did He follow the spirit of the law and not only the letter? Perfectly. Did Jesus keep the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath? Perfectly. Are we not to follow His example.

Jesus did follow the law perfectly. And Now we know that God came in the Flesh and loved us so much that He was our sacrifice, that we would believe in His Love for us.

The Lord Jesus fulfilled the Law, perfectly, all of it, in the Highest, for weak, carnal people. He says in our weakness, He is strong.
Why would He say something like that if we were to follow the Law perfectly as well? Wouldn't He just command us to be strong like He is strong?

I don't think I am strong. I know I am not. I don't pretend that I keep His Law perfectly the way Jesus did. I don't pretend that I can tell people to keep a Law that I myself can't keep.

What I do know I tell people. The Law is our tutor to bring us to Christ. It is supposed to show you that you need a saviour. Each time you look back at the Law it should show you your absolute failure before Him. If instead you see yourself fulfilling His Law by your perfect law keeping I would say that is about as big a fail as anyone has ever had... epic fail...

The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life is what the flesh follows. That is the enemy of God.

The Spirit is what follows the Law and men can't muster it up for their own selves. They have to go to Jesus Christ for it. The Way, the Truth and the Life...

You won't see it because I am showing it to you. We both have too much pride, stubbornness etc and it gets in the way. That's why we must come to the Lord as children. A child doesn't already think it knows all the answers. A child comes seeking what he doesn't have...

Not just anyone can speak into our lives. We have to allow it I suppose. We have to recognize the truth that is being spoken.

 

[GreenNnice]

Originally Posted by Wall

Did Jesus keep the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath? Perfectly. Are we not to follow His example.

Originally Posted by Wall

None of us can keep the 10 commandments perfectly.





HAZ WRITES-Can you explain your contradiction above?


Matthew 5:47-48 (KJV)
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

No contradiction. We are told to try. The best we can do.

Exactly, we are to "try" as you put it, walled, and, we are being ASKED to be perfect, but ARE we perfect on this Earth? Can we ever be? The answer is an irrefutable 'NO.'

The pharasees kept all the laws, and, were 'perfect' at it, too, and, what did Jesus say? Be away from me.

The pharasees did not have Jesus in their heart, which is by faith in Him, in His leading their lives, by His grace.

You are NOT gonig to be with Jesus by what you do of your own accord keeping of the law, that is of your own righteousness, you are saved, as I put in those verses from Phil. 3, it is 'faith in Christ,' this is how we attain righteousness and 'being righteous' quite simply defined is 'right standing with God.' Right?


That's right, hazHis, God wants us to be perfect, but, we are HUMAN, and, it will only come out as our best we can do. WE are not perfect nor will we EVER be perfect, only One was perfect, sinless, on planet Earth, and, ever can be, Jesus Christ.

 

[crossnote]

There are consequences to our actions. The consequences when we sin are not pleasant.

Yes, Jesus saves us from our sins, but he expects us to repent of our sin and he disciplines us when we don't.

Yes, when we live in our own strength (flesh) there are consequences. He breaks us of self-reliance.

 

[haz]

That's right, hazHis, God wants us to be perfect, but, we are HUMAN, and, it will only come out as our best we can do. WE are not perfect nor will we EVER be perfect, only One was perfect, sinless, on planet Earth, and, ever can be, Jesus Christ.

How can we be perfect?

There is only one way. Believe in Jesus.
Thus our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3

Do you doubt what Christ's sacrifice did for those who believe in him?

Note the following scriptures telling us what Christ's sacrifice did for us.
Heb 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 10:10
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

If you believe in Jesus, do you believe God's word when He says that Christ's sacrifice has sanctified you and perfected you?

Or do you believe, as some suggest, that Christ's sacrifice has failed to sanctify and perfect us, and that we need to have perfect obedience to the law before we can claim this?

 

[notconformed2theworld]

How can we be perfect?

There is only one way. Believe in Jesus.
Thus our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3

Do you doubt what Christ's sacrifice did for those who believe in him?

Note the following scriptures telling us what Christ's sacrifice did for us.
Heb 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 10:10
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

If you believe in Jesus, do you believe God's word when He says that Christ's sacrifice has sanctified you and perfected you?

Or do you believe, as some suggest, that Christ's sacrifice has failed to sanctify and perfect us, and that we need to have perfect obedience to the law before we can claim this?

Matthew 5:48 KJV

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I believe we can be perfect and sin free...not on our own accord of course...but by the blood of Jesus which purged our conscience and by the guidance and yielding to the holy spirit.

 

[GreenNnice]

How can we be perfect?

There is only one way. Believe in Jesus.
Thus our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3

Do you doubt what Christ's sacrifice did for those who believe in him?

Note the following scriptures telling us what Christ's sacrifice did for us.
Heb 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 10:10
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

If you believe in Jesus, do you believe God's word when He says that Christ's sacrifice has sanctified you and perfected you?

Or do you believe, as some suggest, that Christ's sacrifice has failed to sanctify and perfect us, and that we need to have perfect obedience to the law before we can claim this?

HazHis,
We are looked on as perfect by Him once we are in Christ , by His grace are we saved, through faith, but we are NOT perfect, Christ knows it, or, He would not have told us to be perfect as I am perfect. It is a directive for us to TRY to reach, but we NEVER reach it on this Earth.

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, but there is also NO PERFECTION for those in Christ Jesus. We are COVERED from ALL our sins--past, present,future--by the blood of Christ, and, we do NOT sin (1 John 3:6) . But, we do NOT sin only because of the blood of Christ that covers us. And, if you think you don't sin, you are a liar (1 John 1:8).

Haz:

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

That's right, "perfected," but we are only made perfect by the 'one offering,' which was Christ Jesus on the cross and His blood that covers us, we are FAR from perfect, but His blood is the perfeCt covering for us

 

[haz]

HazHis,
We are looked on as perfect by Him once we are in Christ , by His grace are we saved, through faith, but we are NOT perfect, Christ knows it, or, He would not have told us to be perfect as I am perfect. It is a directive for us to TRY to reach, but we NEVER reach it on this Earth.

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, but there is also NO PERFECTION for those in Christ Jesus. We are COVERED from ALL our sins--past, present,future--by the blood of Christ, and, we do NOT sin (1 John 3:6) . But, we do NOT sin only because of the blood of Christ that covers us. And, if you think you don't sin, you are a liar (1 John 1:8).

Haz:

That's right, "perfected," but we are only made perfect by the 'one offering,' which was Christ Jesus on the cross and His blood that covers us, we are FAR from perfect, but His blood is the perfeCt covering for us

Hi GreenNice,

It's the new creation in Christ that has been sanctified and perfected. We abide in Christ and it's Christ's holiness/perfection/righteousness that God sees.

As for that imperfect physical part of us, it's already dead (by faith) because of sin, Rom 8:10. The physical will never be perfect, hence we, as believers, should never judge our righteousness/holiness/perfection by it's behavior.

 

[GreenNnice]

Hi GreenNice,

It's the new creation in Christ that has been sanctified and perfected. We abide in Christ and it's Christ's holiness/perfection/righteousness that God sees.

As for that imperfect physical part of us, it's already dead (by faith) because of sin, Rom 8:10. The physical will never be perfect, hence we, as believers, should never judge our righteousness/holiness/perfection by it's behavior.

Because of the 'one offering,' because of Christ's death on the cross, that is the ONLY reason that God sees us perfect, as His righteousness, HazHis.

 

[homwardbound]

So you think the covenant of Hebrews 8 {7-13} is already here.

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.

Although we are to try and walk as if Gods law was written in our heart, has the covenant of Hebrews 8 already arrived?

Verse 8- I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not a gentile mentioned anywhere. Are you from either house homwardbound? Which tribe?

Verse 11- Does EVERYONE know the Lord? Not even close. There will come a time.

Verse 13- Hebrews 8 was written AFTER the crucified Christ and the scripture clearly says that the old covenant (10 commandments) is WAXING OLD and GETTING READY to vanish. Aint vanished yet! Yes there are some books that claim the ten are "obsolete" {a completely different word}. In them same books youll find in Hebrews 4 the name of Jesus being change to Joshua for the same reason.

Verse 10- When God writes His commandments in our heart you can bet the ranch we will be keeping them. Yes, even His sabbath. When will God write His laws in our hearts? At the time He does this quote takes place.. " I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people". Its after the gathering of His people to the 1000yr period of rest.

EZEKIEL 36 [24] For I will take you from among the heathen, and GATHER YOU OUT OF ALL COUNTRIES, AND WILL BRING YOU INTO YOUR OWN LAND. [25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26] A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. [28] And ye shall dwell in the land that i gave to your fathers; and YE SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE YOUR GOD.

Yup, youre jumping the gun on this covenant. That is unless you believe the gathering has already happened. And "everyone" on earth knows the Lord. And the old covenant isn't really waxing old.

Yes aqll done at the cross in Christ, we are freed to love as God truly does and did by the cross, a big yes!

 

[homwardbound]

That's pretty sad theology Wall.

You have the Lord saving bulls and goats but not men.

The Lord didn't save us so that our flesh could glorify before Him.

The Lord saved us so that we would KNOW that HE is the Way, the only Way and we must follow Him. Otherwise He would have told us right there that He is part of the Way and the 10 commandments are the other part...

The 10 commandments are a description of the Spirit that the Lord has put inside us. It is a description of what the Spirit causes us to do when we walk in the spirit.

Romans 7:18-25
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Flesh doesn't follow the Law. Flesh is the enemy of God. Carnality...

No one is saying that the Law is not good. It is just too GOOD for our flesh, mind and wills. We have to have another Way that is not of us, or we are doomed.

Thankfully the Lord Jesus didn't come to save the poor bulls and goats... He came to save us.

And this is wqhy Christ was risen by Father to give us new life in the Spirit of God and be dead to flesh nature, because God can only be worshipped in Spirit and truth

1. John 4:23
   Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
   John 4:22-24 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. John 4:24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
   John 4:23-25 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3. John 14:17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
   John 14:16-18 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
4. John 16:13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

 

[homwardbound]

There is work to be done:

the work that is to be done is work hard to enter God's rest, which today I have by belief, where as in the day of provocation they did not becasue of unbelief.
It is so easy that it is not, seeing how we all have had struggles here in this life of flesh, I am talking of beinig Born again in the Spirit of God through the resurrected Chirst, that this world has glossed over quite well, for no one to see the new life, because this world has gotten most to try and obey, when none can except Christ who was born perfect, and no one else is, So you choose continue your flesh working hard and being stressed out or change your mind and believe God did it all already for you and respond accordingly, and rest from your works as he has already rested from his.

 

[homwardbound]

We must repent of our sin:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

Yep and is done, yet tell me does that make one stop,or bring it on more
[h=3]Galatians 6:8[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

 

[homwardbound]

You can quote the Bible until the cows come home, but either you are an obedient Christian, or you are a disobedient one.

by belief as Abraham , as Noah as Paul, as James, as Christ hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! waht is up with that?

 

[homwardbound]

Originally Posted by Wall

Did Jesus keep the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath? Perfectly. Are we not to follow His example.

Originally Posted by Wall

None of us can keep the 10 commandments perfectly.





HAZ WRITES-Can you explain your contradiction above?


Matthew 5:47-48 (KJV)
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

No contradiction. We are told to try. The best we can do.

excuse me what you posted here was before the cross under the old covenant of Law that Jesus came to fulfill and did so after the cross we are in a new covenant, under news Laws of Love God and neighbor and all people are neighbors. And we are under a new priesthood in the order of Melchizadek

LOVE YOU is what God says, the God just love you, respond to that maybe?

 

[homwardbound]

Matthew 5:48 KJV

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I believe we can be perfect and sin free...not on our own accord of course...but by the blood of Jesus which purged our conscience and by the guidance and yielding to the holy spirit.

Yes in the Spirit of God one does not sin, sin isn't even a thought by thier hidden man of the heart we serve God perfectly. yet with our unredeemed flesh we serve the law of sin and death. Being born again in the Spirit of God we serve God 100%.
So now all sin is condemned to the flesh and whenever I sin it is my unredeemed flesh, not me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not anyone who is born again, you, I and all that beleive have died to flesh and made alive to God by the resurrected Christ, by Believing God at God's word
Romans 7:20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
The differance is whether one is walking in their flesh or the Spirit of God
Romans 7:22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[h=3]Romans 7:24-25[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Walking in flesh, what I discovered is trying to imitate Christ, and is in essennce not bad, but no, not one can complete it, by imitation, ever.
Spirit walking I give up trying to imitate you lord, here is my white flag, I am exhausted, can you please take over?
The differance is God no longer hidden in me, now God himself by me asking lives through me, I am out of the way. Hope you see this transformation that takes place where God gets all the credit and I get none, Halleluah for this.


[h=3]Romans 7:14-19[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

So in the Spirit it is no longer you trying to do what you know you could not do, it is God doing it through you by you trusting God to do it, I call this God-Quill, in place of Ny-Quill so you can rest medicine. It is an old commercial, before you were born back in the 60's. Anyway hope for God to show you how deep his love is for you and all that beleive or are coming to belief