Galatians 4
- Thread starter Stunnedbygrace
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I think it's principalities, spiritual principalities. I'm not exactly sure what that is but I think it's demonic rulers of this world that influences lands.
In NLT it says like children, we were slaves to them in other words I think, not knowing better we were slaves to these demonic rulers and their influence.
If there is any correction to what I said, I'm open to it.
In NLT it says like children, we were slaves to them in other words I think, not knowing better we were slaves to these demonic rulers and their influence.
If there is any correction to what I said, I'm open to it.
I see now, I was thinking that was the verse. The KJV makes a bit more sense on the whole:
Galatians 4:3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
This goes well with verse 9:
Galatians 4:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Taken as a whole chapter to the Galatians this makes a lot of sense. The main point he is showing obviously how we are adopted into the Kingdom of God and are therefore heirs, not slaves, children of the promise, not children of the slave woman. The other point is to Paul's audience. the Galatians. First you must understand what the elements are, the elements are Fire, Water, and Earth, and in some belief systems Air or other such things are considered elements also. In ancient Europe particularly a lot of their various pagan religions and philosophies revolved around worship of the elements, and in a lot of ways this is still a pretty prevalent problem in the West even today, but in a more subtle form.
So Paul is pretty much trying to both warn and teach them not to be going back to the enslavement of their former European pagan ways, the ways of bondage, and instead is trying to reason with the Galatians to continue towards Christianity, towards the way of freedom.
Galatians 4:3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
This goes well with verse 9:
Galatians 4:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Taken as a whole chapter to the Galatians this makes a lot of sense. The main point he is showing obviously how we are adopted into the Kingdom of God and are therefore heirs, not slaves, children of the promise, not children of the slave woman. The other point is to Paul's audience. the Galatians. First you must understand what the elements are, the elements are Fire, Water, and Earth, and in some belief systems Air or other such things are considered elements also. In ancient Europe particularly a lot of their various pagan religions and philosophies revolved around worship of the elements, and in a lot of ways this is still a pretty prevalent problem in the West even today, but in a more subtle form.
So Paul is pretty much trying to both warn and teach them not to be going back to the enslavement of their former European pagan ways, the ways of bondage, and instead is trying to reason with the Galatians to continue towards Christianity, towards the way of freedom.
Galatians 4:9 is refurring back to 3:1-9
“O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.”
You need to look at the context of 4:9, which is 4:8-11
“Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods.9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!11 I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.”
The Galatians were serving idols and worshipped/served them in the works of the flesh, which they were starting to do with the living God, instead of relying on His grace.
“O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.”
You need to look at the context of 4:9, which is 4:8-11
“Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods.9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!11 I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.”
The Galatians were serving idols and worshipped/served them in the works of the flesh, which they were starting to do with the living God, instead of relying on His grace.
Hey trofimus! Been reading a lot of your posts lately. 
Don't know that I have a real beef with the added word. NLT renders thought for thought in a lot of places, but they get it pretty accurate to my mind mostly. And God doesn't seem to pick over words with me but rather gives me...a broad conceptual understanding of things. Maybe just how my mind works and how He does it with me, don't know...
So, my current understanding of:
The useless conversation/way of doing things that we were taught by our parents and
We renounce the things hidden because of shame and
the useless spiritual principles of the world
I was taught to hide a lot. This is really just to be taught the "manners" of society, what is expected of you so relative peace can be kept. So I was taught to hide my anger, to not let others know they had angered me. Also was taught to...make myself look good at every possible time, which included sometimes exaggerating myself and my "good" qualities and also not showing emotions of anger, hurt, impatience, etc. Was even taught to deny ever having had these feelings to others. At the same time, I was taught the respectable and acceptable way to passively-aggressively "get even."
So...it was all just a big old can of nuts. Its a useless way of life to just cover up and hide everything and try to appear to be who I am not. It is also all hidden because of shame, hence: we renounce the things hidden because of shame. We learn by Him to not hide these things and play these games, these spiritual principles and useless ways we were taught. Instead, we begin to say: look, the emporer isn't wearing any clothes so why are we all pretending so hard?
When I began this openness and honesty with His help (this walking in the light of truth rather than useless deceits) I was prouder and more arrogant than I am now. So what happened was I saw the deceits (things hidden because of shame) in others but not in myself. So I went around very arrogantly calling out everyone in their "mannerful" deceits. Of course they just rolled their eyes at me because I was blind to my OWN fig leaves and they saw I was also deceitful in my own self, doing what I'd been taught just as they were.
Then came painful humbling and seeing that the words needed to be applied to open my eyes to myself. Then it became more about honesty in myself rather than trying to force anyone else into honesty rather than deceits, those deceits being things like: no, I wasn't mad, no you didn't hurt my feelings, no I didn't intend what I said meanly, no I wasn't gossiping I was just very concerned, no I wasn't impatient.
So renouncing the things hidden because of shame is just...refusing to any longer walk in the self-deceits and hidden revenges but instead to walk in honesty, renouncing that useless way, those elemental principles for how we should be, do and act and to just walk in the truth concerning when we see them in ourselves. That's where I currently am in my understanding of those verses though I'm not good at concisely explaining a darn thing.
Don't know that I have a real beef with the added word. NLT renders thought for thought in a lot of places, but they get it pretty accurate to my mind mostly. And God doesn't seem to pick over words with me but rather gives me...a broad conceptual understanding of things. Maybe just how my mind works and how He does it with me, don't know...
So, my current understanding of:
The useless conversation/way of doing things that we were taught by our parents and
We renounce the things hidden because of shame and
the useless spiritual principles of the world
I was taught to hide a lot. This is really just to be taught the "manners" of society, what is expected of you so relative peace can be kept. So I was taught to hide my anger, to not let others know they had angered me. Also was taught to...make myself look good at every possible time, which included sometimes exaggerating myself and my "good" qualities and also not showing emotions of anger, hurt, impatience, etc. Was even taught to deny ever having had these feelings to others. At the same time, I was taught the respectable and acceptable way to passively-aggressively "get even."
So...it was all just a big old can of nuts. Its a useless way of life to just cover up and hide everything and try to appear to be who I am not. It is also all hidden because of shame, hence: we renounce the things hidden because of shame. We learn by Him to not hide these things and play these games, these spiritual principles and useless ways we were taught. Instead, we begin to say: look, the emporer isn't wearing any clothes so why are we all pretending so hard?
When I began this openness and honesty with His help (this walking in the light of truth rather than useless deceits) I was prouder and more arrogant than I am now. So what happened was I saw the deceits (things hidden because of shame) in others but not in myself. So I went around very arrogantly calling out everyone in their "mannerful" deceits. Of course they just rolled their eyes at me because I was blind to my OWN fig leaves and they saw I was also deceitful in my own self, doing what I'd been taught just as they were.
Then came painful humbling and seeing that the words needed to be applied to open my eyes to myself. Then it became more about honesty in myself rather than trying to force anyone else into honesty rather than deceits, those deceits being things like: no, I wasn't mad, no you didn't hurt my feelings, no I didn't intend what I said meanly, no I wasn't gossiping I was just very concerned, no I wasn't impatient.
So renouncing the things hidden because of shame is just...refusing to any longer walk in the self-deceits and hidden revenges but instead to walk in honesty, renouncing that useless way, those elemental principles for how we should be, do and act and to just walk in the truth concerning when we see them in ourselves. That's where I currently am in my understanding of those verses though I'm not good at concisely explaining a darn thing.
I think he means pagan traditions. Of course everyone over looks what its saying because no one believes they are following pagan traditions nor do they believe they ever have. But to me it seems he was trying to wake them up, which is puzzling because
The bible says that everyone will follow the beast except for those whos names are written in the book. So if it was already decided why try to alter the future.
The bible says that everyone will follow the beast except for those whos names are written in the book. So if it was already decided why try to alter the future.
Hi.I'm new to the site and relatively new in Christ as well.So I'm pretty sure that my contribution to this thread may be imperfect. But here goes.
The question asked was "What are the useless spiritual principals of this world?"
Well one seems like working for salvation vs.salvation through grace.I know this rug has just about been beaten to shreds but people still don't fully understand that there is no way that we can"work" towards our salvation.My understanding of that has to do with all the animal sacrifices that were required in the O.T e.t.c.
That was "work" which is no longer required since Jesus took the place of the lamb.Now all we have to do is accept Him,repent and be filled with the holy spirit.Then of course obey His 10 commandments.
Hopefully I've understood the question well enough to offer a response that makes sense.If not then please forgive me.
The question asked was "What are the useless spiritual principals of this world?"
Well one seems like working for salvation vs.salvation through grace.I know this rug has just about been beaten to shreds but people still don't fully understand that there is no way that we can"work" towards our salvation.My understanding of that has to do with all the animal sacrifices that were required in the O.T e.t.c.
That was "work" which is no longer required since Jesus took the place of the lamb.Now all we have to do is accept Him,repent and be filled with the holy spirit.Then of course obey His 10 commandments.
Hopefully I've understood the question well enough to offer a response that makes sense.If not then please forgive me.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 4:9, “But now after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters, to which you wish to be enslaved again?”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Colossians 2:20, “If, then, you died with Messiah from the elementary matters of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to dogmas.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Colossians 2:20, “If, then, you died with Messiah from the elementary matters of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to dogmas.”[/FONT]
I've been meaning to ask you for some time now - what translation do you quote from? I really like it!
Thank you for adding col 2:8! It is very relevant to the other 3 verses I gave.
Thank you for adding col 2:8! It is very relevant to the other 3 verses I gave.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT]
Keeping the two great commandments, keeps the 10, you cannot brake the 10 by keeping the two.
Deuteronomy 6:5 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.”
Leviticus 19:18 “You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.”
Hosea 6:5-6 “Therefore I have hewn them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth, and my judgment goes forth as the light.6 For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.”
The Lord has always desired a relationship with us, Jesus when asked what is the greatest commandment in the Law.
Matthew 22:34-40 “But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together.35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him.36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.38 This is the great and first commandment.39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
Deuteronomy 6:5 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.”
Leviticus 19:18 “You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.”
Hosea 6:5-6 “Therefore I have hewn them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth, and my judgment goes forth as the light.6 For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.”
The Lord has always desired a relationship with us, Jesus when asked what is the greatest commandment in the Law.
Matthew 22:34-40 “But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together.35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him.36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.38 This is the great and first commandment.39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."[/FONT]