Gay stuff, not saying which way to judge, but hear the person before you judge

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,044
113
#1

the above is a link to a gay welcoming Church.

I post it neither as an endorsement nor the opposite.

I think somewhere in the Gospels it talks about it's not good to judge a person before you hear what he has to say.

the preacher was saying something about wanting the people in the congregation to hear something from God that morning.


something I heard that I'd never thought of before was that apparently in UCC churches, probably other liturgical churches such as Catholic or Episcopal, the book they read the gospel out of is left open after the reading.
he talks about this at about 33:45
he says that the symbolizes that God is still speaking to his people. an interesting thought, I thought.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#2
love the sinner and hate the sin is not in scripture although many think it is

as far as homosexuality goes, the Bible could not be more clear

I did not watch the vid...it's over an hr long

would agree that God is always speaking, but many twist what He says

nowhere does it say not to judge people before you hear what they have to say...people are not the standard for truth or judging

we judge according to the Bible and what God says, but we do not judge hearts...that is motive
 
Sep 9, 2018
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Illinois
#3
>>>I think somewhere in the Gospels it talks about it's not good to judge a person before you hear what he has to say. <<<

It's really a shame that Eve didn't judge the serpent before she listened to him. We sure could have avoided a passel of trouble. And "I think . . ." Really? "I know" is what I look for on a Christian message board as we have the Word of God to do our thinking for us.

As to the video . . . no thanks.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
3,117
2,509
113
#4
I suppose I'm not getting the point here. Am I supposed to listen to every gay person before I "judge" them?
If so why only gay people?
If that's not the point then what is?
And what about gay people are we supposed to halt our "judgement" for? Are they going to have some story which excuses their sin, and if I don't hear their story I'll be unfairly "judging" them?
And, again, why is this only about gay people?
And who has determined that anyone is "judging"? No doubt some do, but not all are.
And what are you qualifying as "judging" exactly? This notion of judging you presented is so broad and indirect it could be made to be numerous things, none of which may be your intention.
Where does the bible say to listen to ones story before judging them? You made the claim, it falls on you to back it up and provide the scripture. If you are unable then the very foundation of your post has already failed, and with it goes the rest.

I'm not going to be judging any homosexuals. I haven't with ones I've dealt with in the past, and see no need to start now. That doesn't mean I agree, support or approve of that lifestyle, it just means I treat them the same as all the other sinners I deal with. Which is everyone.
And I don't need to listen to their story to do so.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,558
2,722
113
#5
I think somewhere in the Gospels it talks about it's not good to judge a person before you hear what he has to say.

the preacher was saying something about wanting the people in the congregation to hear something from God that morning.
something I heard that I'd never thought of before was that apparently in UCC churches, probably other liturgical churches such as Catholic or Episcopal, the book they read the gospel out of is left open after the reading.
he talks about this at about 33:45
he says that the symbolizes that God is still speaking to his people. an interesting thought, I thought.
This really takes the cake! So, you "think" maybe, perhaps, some common cliché might be in the Bible? Do you think, if you have the time to spend an hour watching gay promo, you could spend 3 minutes googling your idea that "you should talk to someone before you judge them" as to where this occurs in the Bible? Or did you google it, didn't find it, and decided to post it anyway, because the video swayed you so much, you thought it sounded good?

Our standard is NEVER what a person says. What if some charming, persuasive person convinces you to join a commune that practices group sex and murder? Would that trump what the Bible says? What if some sweet, amazing person shows you how in all the world religions it says to trust people before God's word, would you believe that person, or the Bible?

The Bible is out and out clear, in both the Old and New Covenants, that homosexuality is not acceptable. I do not think it is worse than any other sin, but it is a sin, and to continually practice it, to say that you ARE gay, rather than troubled by gay thoughts, is to be outside God's salvation forever. Try Romans 1, 1 Tim. 9:10 and the following:

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Cor. 6:9-10

Plus there is more in the OT, but the NT is enough for Biblical Christians to know the truth.

Further, your total lack of having read the Bible in any capacity is showing through. If you expose yourself to videos like this, and really, anything on the main stream media, you are going to end up swallowing an agenda that has nothing to do with God, and everything to do with calling sin normal. Sin is sin!

It is possible to overcome homosexual impulses. We have a man in our church who was a flamboyant gay. He left the gay life, married a lovely woman and they have been married 29 years now. He is a thoughtful, Spirit led man, and he testifies as to how God set him free. So don't let anyone tell you people are born gay and have to stay that way.

As for you, I would urge you to get out a Bible, any translation except the JW version, but preferably one you can read and understand, (a modern version like NIV or NET or HCSB!) and read the entire Bible. If you read 3 chapters a day of the OT, and 1 of the NT a day, you will get through the Bible in a year. Or use any reading plan online, there are many! Then you will have a better understanding of the big picture of the Bible and who God is. I pray you will start this, perhaps in January. Then, you will not come here and post such biblically deficient posts.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,044
113
#6
love the sinner and hate the sin is not in scripture although many think it is

as far as homosexuality goes, the Bible could not be more clear

I did not watch the vid...it's over an hr long

would agree that God is always speaking, but many twist what He says

nowhere does it say not to judge people before you hear what they have to say...people are not the standard for truth or judging

we judge according to the Bible and what God says, but we do not judge hearts...that is motive
I wouldn't expect anyone to watch the entire video, I certainly haven't.

I found the scripture I was thinking of
John 7: 50. Nicodemus (he who came to him by night, being one of them) said to them, 51. "Does our law judge a man, unless it first hears from him
personally and knows what he does?"
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,044
113
#7
This really takes the cake! So, you "think" maybe, perhaps, some common cliché might be in the Bible? Do you think, if you have the time to spend an hour watching gay promo, you could spend 3 minutes googling your idea that "you should talk to someone before you judge them" as to where this occurs in the Bible? Or did you google it, didn't find it, and decided to post it anyway, because the video swayed you so much, you thought it sounded good?

Our standard is NEVER what a person says. What if some charming, persuasive person convinces you to join a commune that practices group sex and murder? Would that trump what the Bible says? What if some sweet, amazing person shows you how in all the world religions it says to trust people before God's word, would you believe that person, or the Bible?

The Bible is out and out clear, in both the Old and New Covenants, that homosexuality is not acceptable. I do not think it is worse than any other sin, but it is a sin, and to continually practice it, to say that you ARE gay, rather than troubled by gay thoughts, is to be outside God's salvation forever. Try Romans 1, 1 Tim. 9:10 and the following:

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Cor. 6:9-10

Plus there is more in the OT, but the NT is enough for Biblical Christians to know the truth.

Further, your total lack of having read the Bible in any capacity is showing through. If you expose yourself to videos like this, and really, anything on the main stream media, you are going to end up swallowing an agenda that has nothing to do with God, and everything to do with calling sin normal. Sin is sin!

It is possible to overcome homosexual impulses. We have a man in our church who was a flamboyant gay. He left the gay life, married a lovely woman and they have been married 29 years now. He is a thoughtful, Spirit led man, and he testifies as to how God set him free. So don't let anyone tell you people are born gay and have to stay that way.

As for you, I would urge you to get out a Bible, any translation except the JW version, but preferably one you can read and understand, (a modern version like NIV or NET or HCSB!) and read the entire Bible. If you read 3 chapters a day of the OT, and 1 of the NT a day, you will get through the Bible in a year. Or use any reading plan online, there are many! Then you will have a better understanding of the big picture of the Bible and who God is. I pray you will start this, perhaps in January. Then, you will not come here and post such biblically deficient posts.
I think the Greek phrase here is interesting from John 7:51

παρ’ αὐτοῦ καὶ

the idea I think is first hears him
from him and
knows what he is doing.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,630
113
#8
Lets start an "adultery welcoming church". Anyone?

No?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#9
I wouldn't expect anyone to watch the entire video, I certainly haven't.

I found the scripture I was thinking of
John 7: 50. Nicodemus (he who came to him by night, being one of them) said to them, 51. "Does our law judge a man, unless it first hears from him
personally and knows what he does?"
Nicodemus was speaking about Jesus because of the judgement of the religious sects

do we reason with the world's judgement or do we have the mind of Christ?

if we have the mind of Christ, we do not judge by standards the world offers, else we would find it in ourselves to never judge anyone according to the political mindsets of those who say it is ok to marry same sex couples and it is ok to abort the unborn if you don't want a child

that scripture does not say we should listen to everyone and then decide. we need to listen to God and then decide

people are liars in many cases and a person can be persuaded to go in any direction if they listen to the godless long enough
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
18,082
2,130
113
#10
Any church that welcomes gays is on the right the track as even Jesus welcomed sinners of all kinds with open arms, but any church that encourages that lifestyle is not. I don't judge them but if they wanted to know if their lifestyle is sin I will tell them truthfully that it is. Some churches completely exile the gays some accept them with open with arms but some still in the spirit of not judging will not help them to change their lifestyle and say God loves them as they are. But this is not constructive for them and only hinders their walk in faith. I like how Angela put it about the difference between saying your gay and having gay thoughts because there is indeed a difference. Saying your gay means you have accepted your desires and lifestyle, you place a title on yourself. Having gay thoughts however is something else entirely, dealing with such thoughts means you are struggling with them also meaning you have the capacity and perhaps even the willingness to change.

Many Christians struggle with gay thoughts and there isn't a lot of them that feel comfortable seeking help with it because of how other Christians react some I have met on here ran from this site because of a debate about how if you even have those thoughts you are not saved. And others from a debate about if your born that way or not, needless to say it was not handled in a Christ like manner. Regardless if one is born that way or not they cannot remain that way and that is what we as believers and we as the church are for.

Honestly as far as anyone who claims to be gay or has gay thoughts if and when they decide to make the decision to follow Christ I only hope they can find fellow believers who they can comfortably go to. Also my thoughts on hate the sin not the sinner it is true that it is not written in the bible but like many things it is implied. When you look at Jesus when walked the streets he saw the sin and every wrong every person he encountered had done yet he never once judged them and would teach them and accept them with open arms. It is no secret that God hates sin yet when encountering people in the streets who were full of sin he only saw lost lambs needing his guidance.

There are many things not written in the bible and yet are biblical you just have to be able understand that the word of God is not strictly a written message you have to be able to see the message in every action that took place because while maybe not directly written the message is indirectly written
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,630
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#11
What is it with christianity and gays.

Thats the big issue today. All these ministries dedicated to reaching the LBGWATAWOAWNWTAKW people. Its like an obsession already with some of these fake ministers and teachers and preachers.
(ministers of satan)

This is such a small group in the world, that its completely irrelevant, travel around the world a bit and you will see how ridicilous Europe/America is with this stuff. Its just an ongoing indoctrination and brainwashing in the media.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
#12
>>>I think somewhere in the Gospels it talks about it's not good to judge a person before you hear what he has to say. <<<

It's really a shame that Eve didn't judge the serpent before she listened to him. We sure could have avoided a passel of trouble. And "I think . . ." Really? "I know" is what I look for on a Christian message board as we have the Word of God to do our thinking for us.

As to the video . . . no thanks.
Eve didn't possess the capacity to comprehend what the enemy was telling her.
It's like chastising a newborn because they stuck their fingers in the dog's mouth and were bitten after telling the newborn, don't put your fingers in a dog's mouth or you'll be bitten.
 
Aug 11, 2018
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#13
I must admit I didn't watch the video (too long and, really, didn't want to).

The thing with hearing out someone is that they'll always say something to justify their actions, there'll always be an excuse or an argument as to why they do what they do, sometimes without WANTING to understand why is wrong.
However, for God there is no excuse. I DO consider that God is talking to his people even today, however, sin is sin no matter what. A mam who kills another man on purpose can be excused for his actions? No, for God is still a murderer. You said not to judge, that "somewhere" in the bible it says to first hear out the person. But let's put it in a spiritual context. God knows the past, the present and the future of every single creature in this world, He is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. He knows our story even better than ourselves, but do you think that story is a justification for our sin? That He will forgive an unrepentant murderer just because he was abused as a child? I know, for some this doesn't sound good, but that's how it is. God is a loving Father, but the fairest or judges.

God is the same today as He was in the past, and so His law is still the same, and what He called sin in the past is STILL sin nowadays. No one, no government, preacher or anyone can change that. So, no matter what the law of man says today, homosexuality is a sin.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
#14
"I think somewhere in the Gospels it talks about it's not good to judge a person before you hear what he has to say. "
Deuteronomy 1:17

In 2011 the later to fall into bankruptcy due to poor money management "Crystal Cathedral" and its woman preacher/daughter of the deceased founder, made news when she insisted the church choir sign an "anti-gay covenant".

First to get something out of the way. The phrase, love the sinner hate the sin, is not found anywhere in scripture.
It can be inferred as a message in scripture but it is simply not written in scripture. God's word in the OT tells us he hates sin and sinners (Psalms 5:5 , Leviticus 20:23) and in the NT we're informed God does not even hear their prayers, John 9:31.

To continue.
God bless a gay welcoming church.
I've talked with those who claim Christ about this issue. Were it in their purview they'd stand at the door and physically bar those they thought were homosexual from entering.
Those are what I like to call, idiots.

We're told God does not live in houses built by our hands. Acts 7:48 and 17:24. And yet, people travel on various days of the week to meet in His name in a church. When we're told the body of Christ, the true church, is in the numbered faithful who are in Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:27.
And that number then are those who have repented and been born again according to the promise and the covenant will of God.

So how can we then say we would never accept gays into the structure, the house of God as some call the physical building location that is their church, when they are there because they were called by God? Who are we to bar their entry so as to hear the words of God preached? That they may hearken to the call to repentance of their many sins, as were we once one with them in that regard, and that would in the homosexual's case, include homosexuality. And then enter into the body of Christ and the spiritual church.

We cannot and expect to take our seat in any church and actually be worthy of taking up that space. It is as simple as that.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#15
Who are we to bar their entry so as to hear the words of God preached?
For safety reasons really. To protect the flock. Especially the ones who cant protect themselves...
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
13,927
2,861
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#16
"I think somewhere in the Gospels it talks about it's not good to judge a person before you hear what he has to say. "
Deuteronomy 1:17

In 2011 the later to fall into bankruptcy due to poor money management "Crystal Cathedral" and its woman preacher/daughter of the deceased founder, made news when she insisted the church choir sign an "anti-gay covenant".

First to get something out of the way. The phrase, love the sinner hate the sin, is not found anywhere in scripture.
It can be inferred as a message in scripture but it is simply not written in scripture. God's word in the OT tells us he hates sin and sinners (Psalms 5:5 , Leviticus 20:23) and in the NT we're informed God does not even hear their prayers, John 9:31.

To continue.
God bless a gay welcoming church.
I've talked with those who claim Christ about this issue. Were it in their purview they'd stand at the door and physically bar those they thought were homosexual from entering.
Those are what I like to call, idiots.

We're told God does not live in houses built by our hands. Acts 7:48 and 17:24. And yet, people travel on various days of the week to meet in His name in a church. When we're told the body of Christ, the true church, is in the numbered faithful who are in Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:27.
And that number then are those who have repented and been born again according to the promise and the covenant will of God.

So how can we then say we would never accept gays into the structure, the house of God as some call the physical building location that is their church, when they are there because they were called by God? Who are we to bar their entry so as to hear the words of God preached? That they may hearken to the call to repentance of their many sins, as were we once one with them in that regard, and that would in the homosexual's case, include homosexuality. And then enter into the body of Christ and the spiritual church.

We cannot and expect to take our seat in any church and actually be worthy of taking up that space. It is as simple as that.
You should go back and read and study 1 Corinthians 5. God states how the church should handle such leaven.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
#18
You should go back and read and study 1 Corinthians 5. God states how the church should handle such leaven.
I am familiar with what Paul had to say in chapter 5. Are you sure you are?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#19
maybe people should watch the video. it's pretty revealing

at 10:06 the female pastor speaks of honoring the pride theme for that year and prior she mentions they are in the pride parade and wears a mickey mouse hat with rainbow ears

that is not what witnessing is about.

at 17 minutes the entire church is mouthing (to God supposedly) 'free us from the closets of secrecy and give us the guts and grace to come out' grace is not about admitting you are homosexual. the grace of God is there for the forgiveness of sins

it continues 'with the yellow stripe in the rainbow, build our confidence'

it just goes from bad to worse and there is nothing of redeeming value in it, but just the usual worldly agenda

it should be noted that the United Church, of which the church in the video is one, allows homosexuals to participate but do not ordain them however they do 'affirm' them

watch the video to see what this affirming is about

how does a church affirm homosexuals without undermining what the Bible says?

attending and affirming are not two sides of the same coin. they contradict each other