Gentile Christians sharing the Gospel with Jews

[Jeff_56]

simpler(than you thought/posted). nothing elevated above little children ---

-- the "other gospels" (instead of the one true gospel once for all delivered in Yahweh's Word) are 'winning' in terms of number of posts, number of followers, adherents, etc etc.... and may be deceiving more people here/ gaining more 'converts' than Jesus Himself does....

for any and all words they use (1) through (7) definitions (just put there for example) of their own making/ design / choice to try to justify their unjustifiable position(s),,, which of course Yahweh lets them go on believing, thinking for now that their delusions are true.....

only be sheer grace in Yahshua is anyone able to escape their (and others throughout world) continual and increasing deception as all the world and all the world's religion(s) are increasing in evil and wickedness until their sin is filled up......

I haven't been on this chat for some time so I don't quite understand the numbering of 1 thru 7 in your post......

 

[bondservant]

This is truly a great thread and one that is my own heart. I feel the more we know about the ways and customs of our Jewish brothers and sisters the more we understand our Lord in the gospels. I started a study on the 7 festivals in the old testament and with the help of some Jewish friends of mine started to understand the gospels so much better. I often wondered why Jesus made references to himself as the light of the world, bread of life, living water etc every time I'd read the gospels these things stood out as a unusual comment but when I started to study the festivals it made so much sense. How profound it was for John the Baptist to say " behold the lamb of god who takes away the sin of the world" so much More in New testament once you understand Jewish life. So much more passion.

 

[SolidGround]

Understanding OT Hebrew life and culture, and understanding modern Judaism
are two different things.

Study the Word.
The ones you call "Jews" are Jews in name only. They forsake the Word of God, and have fashioned false images as backdrops behind the Holy Feasts. They are a distraction to our cause in Christ, not allies.
I mean this religiously, not ethnically. There is no barrier between ethnic groups.

I was fed so much misinformation as a youth, that much of my early years in Christ were spent unlearning and relearning what it meant to be part of God's People.

If you want to learn about the Feasts, read the Bible. Jewish tradition is a distortion of Scripture, as much as Mormonism or JW is a distortion of Christianity... actually, both of those pale in comparison to the twisting perversion that is Judaism.

It sounds like your "Jewish" friends are not actually followers of Judaism, but of Christ, if they showed you the meaning of Light and Lamb.
Some of those converted out of Judaism still cling to the label, out of pride. They do not understand that our physical birth was into Babylon, not Judah. They need to learn to lay the false claims aside. Dispensationalism is he leading cause of their delusion. If they are lied to about what the Assembly is, then they will never understand true Israel, and will never grasp what the two Jerusalems truly are.

I will not say that my Jewish upbringing has not been used by God,
but on the other hand, it was of no theological benefit to me, but instead was a hindrance to my growth in Christ.

 

[just-me]

This is truly a great thread and one that is my own heart. I feel the more we know about the ways and customs of our Jewish brothers and sisters the more we understand our Lord in the gospels. I started a study on the 7 festivals in the old testament and with the help of some Jewish friends of mine started to understand the gospels so much better. I often wondered why Jesus made references to himself as the light of the world, bread of life, living water etc every time I'd read the gospels these things stood out as a unusual comment but when I started to study the festivals it made so much sense. How profound it was for John the Baptist to say " behold the lamb of god who takes away the sin of the world" so much More in New testament once you understand Jewish life. So much more passion.

This is true. There are certain scriptures that come into my mind in relation to the Hebrew feasts, and the salvation offered to us in the New Covenant through Christ Jesus.

"Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old." Matthew 13:52

"And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new." Leviticus 26:10

"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." Romans 15:4

 

[just-me]

Understanding OT Hebrew life and culture, and understanding modern Judaism
are two different things.

Study the Word.
The ones you call "Jews" are Jews in name only. They forsake the Word of God, and have fashioned false images as backdrops behind the Holy Feasts. They are a distraction to our cause in Christ, not allies.
I mean this religiously, not ethnically. There is no barrier between ethnic groups.

I was fed so much misinformation as a youth, that much of my early years in Christ were spent unlearning and relearning what it meant to be part of God's People.

If you want to learn about the Feasts, read the Bible. Jewish tradition is a distortion of Scripture, as much as Mormonism or JW is a distortion of Christianity... actually, both of those pale in comparison to the twisting perversion that is Judaism.

It sounds like your "Jewish" friends are not actually followers of Judaism, but of Christ, if they showed you the meaning of Light and Lamb.
Some of those converted out of Judaism still cling to the label, out of pride. They do not understand that our physical birth was into Babylon, not Judah. They need to learn to lay the false claims aside. Dispensationalism is he leading cause of their delusion. If they are lied to about what the Assembly is, then they will never understand true Israel, and will never grasp what the two Jerusalems truly are.

I will not say that my Jewish upbringing has not been used by God,
but on the other hand, it was of no theological benefit to me, but instead was a hindrance to my growth in Christ.

I agree with this also. When reading the Bible, I detected only 3 feasts that were ordained by "Master YHWH." The cerebrations attracted to the feasts are important in relationship however. One example is that Passover, and the feast of unleavened bread. They are classified as 2 feasts when in fact Passover is the first day of the unleavened bread feast. The Internet is not the place to understand the truth of Hebrew History, feasts and celebrations. The Bible is the only place to finalize the truth and understand the relationship between Old and New Testament truth. It's makes the learning so much more comprehendable. Understanding months and days according to the Biblical Hebrew calendar (not the Jewish civil calendar) is beneficial also.

2 Chronicles 8:12-13
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then Solomon offered burnt offerings unto the Lord on the altar of the Lord, which he had built before the porch,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.

 

[bondservant]

Let me get back to you saints on this topic, I want to get my notes and scripture in order. The feasts, festivals, even the placement of the furniture in the temple were all significant things to know. I found it fascinating to learn and as I said it helped me to understand scripture more, not to add or take away anything being taught but my feelings were that traditional teaching has sort of stumped the growth of the church it has made a lot of sermons and teachings rather plain or strange, in till you know it's full meanings. I look forward to fellowship with you soon. Thanks.

 

[just-me]

Let me get back to you saints on this topic, I want to get my notes and scripture in order. The feasts, festivals, even the placement of the furniture in the temple were all significant things to know. I found it fascinating to learn and as I said it helped me to understand scripture more, not to add or take away anything being taught but my feelings were that traditional teaching has sort of stumped the growth of the church it has made a lot of sermons and teachings rather plain or strange, in till you know it's full meanings. I look forward to fellowship with you soon. Thanks.

Concerning the temple and the incense that was burnt in relation to prayer, and the oil of incense for anointing the vessels of the temple, each ingredient has spiritual meaning, and attributes if disinfecting. Same goes for the foliage that was used to build booths, in remembrance of the 40 years in the wideness, and how God sustained and cleansed Israel, in relation to the feast of tabernacles. I have some info if you are interested, but in order to not bombard you we should take one thing at a time. You call it.

 

[Elin]

This is true. There are certain scriptures that come into my mind in relation to the Hebrew feasts, and the salvation offered to us in the New Covenant through Christ Jesus.

"Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old." Matthew 13:52

"And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new." Leviticus 26:10

"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." Romans 15:4

It is not necessary to defend the OT Scriptures as though the NT advocates simply discarding them.
That is a straw man.

What is necessary is to learn what of the old covenant shadows, copies,images, patterns and pre-figures have been set aside for God's people because of God's fulfillment in Jesus of Nazareth of his promise of a new covenant (Jer 31:31-34).

The issue is always clinging to the shadows, copies, images, patterns and pre-figures in addition to Christ, their complete fulfillment, where in practicality the old order of the former covenant is given as much importance as the reality of the new order (Heb 9:5) in the new covenant (Lk 22:20).

God's commandment does not allow us to focus on images, we are to focus on the reality, not on images of it.
And that is because, without fail, in practicality the images will come to have more importance to us than the reality itself.

That is why focusing on OT images of Christ will always cause problems in the NT gospel.

 

[Elin]

I agree with this also. When reading the Bible, I detected only 3 feasts that were ordained by "Master YHWH." The cerebrations attracted to the feasts are important in relationship however. One example is that Passover, and the feast of unleavened bread. They are classified as 2 feasts when in fact Passover is the first day of the unleavened bread feast.

Actually, they are in fact two feasts, one immediately following the other.
No, they are legislated as two feasts.
Because one followed the other with no break between, the Jews customarily called the two of them Unleavened Bread.
But that was custom only, not God's legislation.

The Internet is not the place to understand the truth of Hebrew History, feasts and celebrations. The Bible is the only place to finalize the truth and understand the relationship between Old and New Testament truth. It's makes the learning so much more comprehendable. Understanding months and days according to the Biblical Hebrew calendar (not the Jewish civil calendar) is beneficial also.

2 Chronicles 8:12-13
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then Solomon offered burnt offerings unto the Lord on the altar of the Lord, which he had built before the porch,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.

Yes, understanding the OT ceremonial law is very beneficial as long as it remains understanding of it, and is not elevated to practice of it in the new covenant (Lk 22:20).

 

[Elin]

Concerning the temple and the incense that was burnt in relation to prayer, and the oil of incense for anointing the vessels of the temple,
each ingredient has spiritual meaning, and attributes of disinfecting.

Actually there is no Biblical warrant for maintaining that the ordinances were given to "disinfect."
They were given to pattern, prefigure, picture the coming reality of salvation in Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah.
"Disinfect" is a man-made notion imposed on the Scriptures to support a personal theology.

Same goes for the foliage that was used to build booths, in remembrance of the 40 years in the wideness, and how God sustained and
cleansed Israel, in relation to the feast of tabernacles. I have some info if you are interested, but in order to not bombard you we should take one thing at a time. You call it.

Ceremonial cleansing in Israel was of sin, not of unhealth, prefigured in the defilement laws regarding food, clothing, houses, diseases, etc., which defilement (figure of sin) was cleansed in the purification laws (prefigure of cleansing of Christ).

 

[bondservant]

I think the feasts and festivals are important to understand sense god had given them and said they were his to observe even the calender days that they were to observe. 4out of the 7 have been fulfilled 3are remaining. It's a little in site into the foreknowledge of God and how exact the prophecies had been fulfilled. Giving us a better understanding of the dialect and what was accomplished on the cross.

 

[just-me]

I think the feasts and festivals are important to understand sense god had given them and said they were his to observe even the calender days that they were to observe. 4out of the 7 have been fulfilled 3are remaining. It's a little in site into the foreknowledge of God and how exact the prophecies had been fulfilled. Giving us a better understanding of the dialect and what was accomplished on the cross.

I am looking forward to the feast of tabernacles during the reign of Christ Jesus. Thank you for your input! I would say that the fall harvest, trumpets, and atonement are defiantly a foreshadowing of the second coming. God bless you brother! It is so nice to be edified and pay the blessing back in return when opportunity permits. It's a convocation type thing, for a lack of a better term.

 

[Elin]

I think the feasts and festivals are important to understand sense god had given them and said they were his to observe even the calender days that they were to observe. 4out of the 7 have been fulfilled 3are remaining. It's a little in site into the foreknowledge of God and how exact the prophecies had been fulfilled. Giving us a better understanding of the dialect and what was accomplished on the cross.

Indeed, they are important to understand. . .but not to be practiced.