Gifts of the Spirit

[RickyZ]

I've soft-pedaled some answers here in other threads about this subject but God's not going to let me get away with that. The question about the Spiritual gifts being relevant today is of CRITICAL importance at this point in history. As we get deeper into the end times and approach the tribulation, spiritual warfare is going to increase exponentially. Jesus says at that time many of us are going to turn against each other and away from Him because they aren't properly trained and rooted in it. I don't want to see that happen to anyone here.

First thing is you have to understand the difference between a gift and an office. For example prophecy. There is the gift of prophecy, which is an intercessory gift anyone might be given to address a specific issue at a specific time and place. Generally it's a private thing tho there might be one given for public consumption. (Anything given for public consumption must be cleared with leadership and have an interpreter before it can be given). Then there is the office of Prophet, which is someone who is called upon to deliver words publically on a regular basis. This person should ideally be in leadership but there are plenty of those who 'wander the desert eating locusts'. For this discussion we are talking about gifts.

Spiritual gifts are an application of God's existing Word to a problem of today. They are always to be compatible with scripture.

An argument(s) was raised elsewhere(s) that the Gifts were given to the Apostles to establish the church and once established became moot. But we are still establishing the Church today. Every generation and every individual must have the Gospel brought to them and established in their hearts, just as much today (if not more) than then. We are the apostles of today establishing the Gospel in the world of today. And every tool God gave them to do so then He has made available to us now. He doesn't change, right?

The problem is, so many of you have been convinced they're not and you can't.

And to that I ask, is there anyone here who can name someone who might be interested in seeing that Christains aren't properly armed, especially at the end?

Tongues. Man originally had a single spiritual language which he lost at the Tower of Babel. When the Messiah returns and restores all things, one of those things that will be restored will be that single spiritual language. Since Jesus has already taken authority in the Heavens, we have access to use that language here and now.

And that is the case with all the gifts. Jesus bought authority over creation but hasn't yet returned to exercise it. In the time being, it is up to us to exercise His authority in His name in the here and now. And we do that by partnering with the Holy Spirit in specific cases to use whatever gift is needed for the situation.

And too, gifts aren't given to us, they are given thru us to someone else.

As for them ceasing, my study shows that they don't stop happening, they stop being known as gifts. Thats because when Jesus returns, they will be the everyday norm and not the exceptions they are today. In the example of tongues, what is now a tongue to us will then be our native language. English would be the tongue at that time if we were to use it.

But back to the start. This is it people. The whole d-edited-n world is but a house of cards just waiting for a small breeze to blow it into the tribulation. And when that happens make no mistake the enemy is coming after YOU whether you have to tools to fight him or not. DON'T LET HIM FIND YOU EMPTY HANDED AND UNPREPARED. Embrace that which the Holy Spirit offers you to fight back and bless other people's lives with. Embrace that which will keep you from turning in the end. And glorify Jesus' authorty by making it yours every day.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I've soft-pedaled some answers here in other threads about this subject but God's not going to let me get away with that. The question about the Spiritual gifts being relevant today is of CRITICAL importance at this point in history. As we get deeper into the end times and approach the tribulation, spiritual warfare is going to increase exponentially. Jesus says at that time many of us are going to turn against each other and away from Him because they aren't properly trained and rooted in it. I don't want to see that happen to anyone here.

What is more critical? Spreading the gospel, or possessing spiritual gifts? I didn't witness anyone having gifts when I became a Christian. How is that critical to ones salvation?

Spiritual gifts are an application of God's existing Word to a problem of today. They are always to be compatible with scripture.

An argument(s) was raised elsewhere(s) that the Gifts were given to the Apostles to establish the church and once established became moot. But we are still establishing the Church today. Every generation and every individual must have the Gospel brought to them and established in their hearts, just as much today (if not more) than then. We are the apostles of today establishing the Gospel in the world of today. And every tool God gave them to do so then He has made available to us now. He doesn't change, right?

The church has been established. To "establish" something(organization, or system) means to set up something on a firm foundation. The church has already been established, but is continuing to grow. Establishment, and growth are two different things.
Back in the time of the Apostle's the church was immature. They didn't have the written Gospel like we have today. They were given gifts to assist them along their missionary journey. The gifts were used to help bring others to Christ, but no where is it said it is a personal gift.

Tongues. Man originally had a single spiritual language which he lost at the Tower of Babel. When the Messiah returns and restores all things, one of those things that will be restored will be that single spiritual language. Since Jesus has already taken authority in the Heavens, we have access to use that language here and now.

The confusion of tongues was a result of man's rebellion against God. If people couldn't communicate with each other then the blasphemy came to a halt and man was scattered.
The "language" Christians know are the biblical principles that a non believer may not understand. Not a supernatural gift.

And that is the case with all the gifts. Jesus bought authority over creation but hasn't yet returned to exercise it. In the time being, it is up to us to exercise His authority in His name in the here and now. And we do that by partnering with the Holy Spirit in specific cases to use whatever gift is needed for the situation.

We exercise authority by spreading the gospel. Jesus commanded us to spread the word of God, the gospel. Not speak in unknown languages.

And too, gifts aren't given to us, they are given thru us to someone else.

Where in the bible does it say gifts were passed on to others without the laying of apostle's hands?

As for them ceasing, my study shows that they don't stop happening, they stop being known as gifts. Thats because when Jesus returns, they will be the everyday norm and not the exceptions they are today. In the example of tongues, what is now a tongue to us will then be our native language. English would be the tongue at that time if we were to use it

.
1 Corinthians does say the gifts will cease.
When Jesus returns why will we need tongues, prophecy, and healing? When he returns aren't we gonna be in Heaven? What's left to prophecy and heal at that point?

But back to the start. This is it people. The whole d-edited-n world is but a house of cards just waiting for a small breeze to blow it into the tribulation. And when that happens make no mistake the enemy is coming after YOU whether you have to tools to fight him or not. DON'T LET HIM FIND YOU EMPTY HANDED AND UNPREPARED. Embrace that which the Holy Spirit offers you to fight back and bless other people's lives with. Embrace that which will keep you from turning in the end. And glorify Jesus' authorty by making it yours every day

Faith, hope, and love is all we need. Those are the tools, and love is the greatest. 1 Cor 13:13

 

[RickyZ]

Wow, you are just like sooo close... 90% of what you say is true and insightful and if I could just tweak the way you look at that other 10%...

Think of it like a road crew. Yeah the original crew is sent out to grade the land and lay the asphalt. They have tools they use like shovels and bulldozers to accomplish what they set out to build. Once the road is built they pat themselves on the back and 'cease working'.

You think everything stops there.

But it doesn't. Time marches on, there's new and increased users on the road, and at times we have to send another crew out to patch potholes and restripe lanes and such. The crew that does this is a later crew than that who built the road, but they have the same tools at their disposal - the shovels and bull dozers and such - as the original crew did.

?

 

[Abiding]

I've soft-pedaled some answers here in other threads about this subject but God's not going to let me get away with that. The question about the Spiritual gifts being relevant today is of CRITICAL importance at this point in history. As we get deeper into the end times and approach the tribulation, spiritual warfare is going to increase exponentially. Jesus says at that time many of us are going to turn against each other and away from Him because they aren't properly trained and rooted in it. I don't want to see that happen to anyone here.
what is spiritual warfare? and what does that have to do with gifts>
First thing is you have to understand the difference between a gift and an office. For example prophecy. There is the gift of prophecy, which is an intercessory gift anyone might be given to address a specific issue at a specific time and place. Generally it's a private thing tho there might be one given for public consumption. (Anything given for public consumption must be cleared with leadership and have an interpreter before it can be given). Then there is the office of Prophet, which is someone who is called upon to deliver words publically on a regular basis. This person should ideally be in leadership but there are plenty of those who 'wander the desert eating locusts'. For this discussion we are talking about gifts.
Someone made this up...prophecy doesnt need interpretation...its needs judged

Spiritual gifts are an application of God's existing Word to a problem of today. They are always to be compatible with scripture.
Better said...gifts can give application to the word, not an application.

An argument(s) was raised elsewhere(s) that the Gifts were given to the Apostles to establish the church and once established became moot. But we are still establishing the Church today. Every generation and every individual must have the Gospel brought to them and established in their hearts, just as much today (if not more) than then. We are the apostles of today establishing the Gospel in the world of today. And every tool God gave them to do so then He has made available to us now. He doesn't change, right?

The problem is, so many of you have been convinced they're not and you can't.

And to that I ask, is there anyone here who can name someone who might be interested in seeing that Christains aren't properly armed, especially at the end?
armed with what? a gift? if you mean something taught..your talking about a craft,
gift are given by God, not people.

Tongues. Man originally had a single spiritual language which he lost at the Tower of Babel. When the Messiah returns and restores all things, one of those things that will be restored will be that single spiritual language. Since Jesus has already taken authority in the Heavens, we have access to use that language here and now.

where did you come up with this? and what do you mean access?

And that is the case with all the gifts. Jesus bought authority over creation but hasn't yet returned to exercise it. In the time being, it is up to us to exercise His authority in His name in the here and now. And we do that by partnering with the Holy Spirit in specific cases to use whatever gift is needed for the situation.

And too, gifts aren't given to us, they are given thru us to someone else.

This is so uncool....reread 1 cor 12 the distributor of the gifts(manifestations) is the HolySpirit to whom and when He chooses

As for them ceasing, my study shows that they don't stop happening, they stop being known as gifts. Thats because when Jesus returns, they will be the everyday norm and not the exceptions they are today. In the example of tongues, what is now a tongue to us will then be our native language. English would be the tongue at that time if we were to use it.

More made up stuff

But back to the start. This is it people. The whole d-edited-n world is but a house of cards just waiting for a small breeze to blow it into the tribulation. And when that happens make no mistake the enemy is coming after YOU whether you have to tools to fight him or not. DON'T LET HIM FIND YOU EMPTY HANDED AND UNPREPARED. Embrace that which the Holy Spirit offers you to fight back and bless other people's lives with. Embrace that which will keep you from turning in the end. And glorify Jesus' authorty by making it yours every day.[/QUOTE

your not saying anything here...fight back? with what? speak in tongues at our enemies?Im sorry none of this makes any sense to me.

Yes i believe in equipting the saints...but nothing here that youve written that i can see will do that.]

 

[Elizabeth619]

Wow, you are just like sooo close... 90% of what you say is true and insightful and if I could just tweak the way you look at that other 10%...

Think of it like a road crew. Yeah the original crew is sent out to grade the land and lay the asphalt. They have tools they use like shovels and bulldozers to accomplish what they set out to build. Once the road is built they pat themselves on the back and 'cease working'.

You think everything stops there.

But it doesn't. Time marches on, there's new and increased users on the road, and at times we have to send another crew out to patch potholes and restripe lanes and such. The crew that does this is a later crew than that who built the road, but they have the same tools at their disposal - the shovels and bull dozers and such - as the original crew did.

?

So you are saying that the gifts did cease, but started back up again? That is not at all what the bible says.

 

[RickyZ]

I've soft-pedaled some answers here in other threads about this subject but God's not going to let me get away with that. The question about the Spiritual gifts being relevant today is of CRITICAL importance at this point in history. As we get deeper into the end times and approach the tribulation, spiritual warfare is going to increase exponentially. Jesus says at that time many of us are going to turn against each other and away from Him because they aren't properly trained and rooted in it. I don't want to see that happen to anyone here.
what is spiritual warfare? and what does that have to do with gifts>

The Book of Revelations, famine pestilence desease, humanity turning against itself and God... none of that sound familiar to you? Wouldn't you want the ability to do something like call down manna from the sky or heal afflicted loved ones? Or be led to shelter? Jesus said we'd be led off and killed for testifying for Him. You gonna face that on your own strength and your own words?

First thing is you have to understand the difference between a gift and an office. For example prophecy. There is the gift of prophecy, which is an intercessory gift anyone might be given to address a specific issue at a specific time and place. Generally it's a private thing tho there might be one given for public consumption. (Anything given for public consumption must be cleared with leadership and have an interpreter before it can be given). Then there is the office of Prophet, which is someone who is called upon to deliver words publically on a regular basis. This person should ideally be in leadership but there are plenty of those who 'wander the desert eating locusts'. For this discussion we are talking about gifts.
Someone made this up...prophecy doesnt need interpretation...its needs judged

Oh contraire. Even Elizabeth69 can quote you that one.

Spiritual gifts are an application of God's existing Word to a problem of today. They are always to be compatible with scripture.
Better said...gifts can give application to the word, not an application.

WRONG! When the apostles laid hands and healed that was an application! When they cast out demons that was an application. Jesus tells us to go out and apply what we have learned. Apllication is a verb, dang it, which means you should be not just studying but DOING IT!!!

An argument(s) was raised elsewhere(s) that the Gifts were given to the Apostles to establish the church and once established became moot. But we are still establishing the Church today. Every generation and every individual must have the Gospel brought to them and established in their hearts, just as much today (if not more) than then. We are the apostles of today establishing the Gospel in the world of today. And every tool God gave them to do so then He has made available to us now. He doesn't change, right?

The problem is, so many of you have been convinced they're not and you can't.

And to that I ask, is there anyone here who can name someone who might be interested in seeing that Christains aren't properly armed, especially at the end?
armed with what? a gift? if you mean something taught..your talking about a craft,
gift are given by God, not people.

How about the gift of discernment in a situation where evil is after you, or the gift of food or healing mentioned above. As the result of a gift of a word the Israelites kepth their sons from death when they were being persecuted. Wouldn't you like the Holy Spirit to be able to tell you where to hide when the authorities want to drag you in for being a Christian?

Tongues. Man originally had a single spiritual language which he lost at the Tower of Babel. When the Messiah returns and restores all things, one of those things that will be restored will be that single spiritual language. Since Jesus has already taken authority in the Heavens, we have access to use that language here and now.

where did you come up with this? and what do you mean access?

We wer originally cut off from God and eden. The fall, in Gensis, after Adam ate the apple right? Jesus came to restore our relationship with Him and His intended creation. Which includes those spiritual things you think are still out of reach. that jesus has for our time period regained authority in the heavens, through Him we can have those things we were cut off from.

And that is the case with all the gifts. Jesus bought authority over creation but hasn't yet returned to exercise it. In the time being, it is up to us to exercise His authority in His name in the here and now. And we do that by partnering with the Holy Spirit in specific cases to use whatever gift is needed for the situation.

And too, gifts aren't given to us, they are given thru us to someone else.

This is so uncool....reread 1 cor 12 the distributor of the gifts(manifestations) is the HolySpirit to whom and when He chooses

Absolutely but we are but the middleman. The Holy Spirit gives me the gift of healing that I may lay hands upon another person and make them well. To transfer across the gap from the spritual to the physical worlds requires a partner on both sides of the border.

As for them ceasing, my study shows that they don't stop happening, they stop being known as gifts. Thats because when Jesus returns, they will be the everyday norm and not the exceptions they are today. In the example of tongues, what is now a tongue to us will then be our native language. English would be the tongue at that time if we were to use it.

More made up stuff

Dude. Spend the next 50 years studying it, including the original languages, then let's talk. (Sorry I know that was flippant) In the meantime, do you believe we'll be talikng english spanish swahili before the throne of God? Or do you think that maybe we might miraculously all understand each other?

But back to the start. This is it people. The whole d-edited-n world is but a house of cards just waiting for a small breeze to blow it into the tribulation. And when that happens make no mistake the enemy is coming after YOU whether you have to tools to fight him or not. DON'T LET HIM FIND YOU EMPTY HANDED AND UNPREPARED. Embrace that which the Holy Spirit offers you to fight back and bless other people's lives with. Embrace that which will keep you from turning in the end. And glorify Jesus' authorty by making it yours every day.[/QUOTE

your not saying anything here...fight back? with what? speak in tongues at our enemies?Im sorry none of this makes any sense to me.

When the enemy makes us sick, we heal them. When the enemy makes us starve, we feed them. When the enemy comes to persecute us, strength and the right words are given us. You may not need those things now but if you plan on living for much longer you're going to.

Yes i believe in equipting the saints...but nothing here that youve written that i can see will do that.]

Does this help?

 

[Abiding]

Yes that did help. You have a wonderful imagination. And I spose youve used it.
I cant suppose im fit to discuss this, as its a bible discussion forum not an imagination
forum.

 

[Dude653]

[what is spiritual warfare? and what does that have to do with gifts>
..


10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[c] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand

 

[Abiding]

Yes spiritual warfare is taking a stand, by the truth of the word and prayer.It is not a frontal
offensive position slinging spiritual gifts. Fighting as if it was a flesh and blood battle.

 

[RickyZ]

Yes that did help. You have a wonderful imagination. And I spose youve used it.

I cant suppose im fit to discuss this, as its a bible discussion forum not an imagination
forum.

A couple friends and I were walking down the Venice Beach boardwalk one day, where the Hare Krishnas like to gather and recruit. So we come up upon about 2 dozen of them, with more gathering, chanting and singing and playing instruments and enticing passersby to join them, giving every indication that they are just getting started. My friends stop to watch for a minute, my spidey senses are all lit up and so I step back a pace and quietly to myself start saying the words - 'In Jesus' name, I bind and silence the evil that has gathered here, and that they be cast out of this area. I bring the Holy Spirit into this place, and command angels to come and do battle with the darkies here, and to disperse them'. So we move on, walk another 2 blocks, then turn around and start our way back. We come to where this gathering was occuring not more than 10 minutes later and they're gone. Except for 3 of them down by the shoreline talking amongst themselves, there's no sight or sound of them.

I'm at a concert one night and the performer does something the Spirit says 'that's not of Me' to me. I try to dismiss it but it's not going away, and I'm persuaded I need to go tallk to this guy about it. So when he finishes his set I make my way backstage into a secure area through an unlocked door and I wander my way into this long corridor thinking Lord I'm going to need direction here. I turn around and here's this security guared, out of nowhere, 'can I help you sir?' Uhm, yeah, I'm looking for the entertainers dressing room. 'Oh, its two doors up on the right' he tells me. I say thanks, turn and start to walk that way, expecting this guard to ask me who I was and what I wanted. When he didn't, I turned back to look at him and he was gone. So I go on in and talk with the guy who turns out kinda felt the same thing and was glad I had come to confirm it.

Back in High schooll a friend's sister came down with something, for 3 months they went to Dr after Dr with no results. One night they were all wondering what they would do next. I was standing right next to her so I nonchlantly put my hand on her shoulder and said 'Well in the name of Jesus I pray you find healing'. And that was it, the rest of the night was movies and popcorn in front of the tv. A week later I go to visit again, come in, hi Terry, how ya feeling? 'Really good actually, I don't know what happened but whatever it was I had went away over this last week and I'm fine now'.

This past June I start having these visions and premonitions of a coming accident; over a two week period It just gets stronger and stronger. Father's day morning I'm getting gas and two cars hit outside the station. As I watch the drivers get out and talk, something taps me on the shoulder and says "You're next". Less that 5 miles later kaboom there it was.

Imagination? Oh how I wish it was just imagination, but it's repeatable and verifyable by outside sources... including a couple head doctors whom I'm sure you think I need to see. Sorry, been there on my own already many a time and they assure me I'm not making this up. It's in the percentages and types of incidents, and my ability to describe and document them as a Dr Imhoff put it.

That's again why I won't verse war. I don't believe what the verses tell me, I know what I see happening around me. That's why I'm so dang sure of myself, it's not arrogance but experience that drives my understanding. And my desire to share with you all this absolutely incredible and miraculous gift God has given me.


Make no mistake, the gifts are alive and well and totally functional here and now.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I don't believe what the verses tell me

You don't believe what the bible tells you? So you refuse to give scripture to back up your comments? You're saying it is the spirit moving you, and you don't need the bible to confirm that? Just want to make sure I am clear on this.

 

[1still_waters]

You know what makes me scratch my chin?

People who say we're in ''the end times'', and there is going to be this apostasy, who also say we need to be hearing all these "prophetic" revelations that aren't in the Bible.

You'd think if one truly believed there was going to be all this apostasy and ''deceit'', they'd be keeping their ear close to the Bible, and not in to the mutterings of someone claiming to have the latest word from God.

 

[Elizabeth619]

You know what makes me scratch my chin?

People who say we're in ''the end times'', and there is going to be this apostasy, who also say we need to be hearing all these "prophetic" revelations that aren't in the Bible.

You'd think if one truly believed there was going to be all this apostasy and ''deceit'', they'd be keeping their ear close to the Bible, and not in to the mutterings of someone claiming to have the latest word from God.

Apparently, the Word of God is not enough for some people. They have to go "searching" for supernatural gifts, and when they "possess" these gifts they automatically think it is from God when the bible clearly states that Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light...wait... maybe that is a biblical contradiction.

 

[RickyZ]

Wow, you have such limited retention. The questions posed in the above 3 posts I've allready spoken to several times. Such blinders you have on. Let me finish up a liitle project I've got going and I'll give you all the chapter and verse you want to hear. Not that you'll consider them anyway.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Wow, you have such limited retention. The questions posed in the above 3 posts I've allready spoken to several times. Such blinders you have on. Let me finish up a liitle project I've got going and I'll give you all the chapter and verse you want to hear. Not that you'll consider them anyway.

Wow, resorting to insults now? Nice. IF that is how you are going to respond to me then I am done with the conversation. You have already come to the assumption that I will not "consider" the verses. The problem isn't in the verses.

 

[kenisyes]

Apparently, the Word of God is not enough for some people. They have to go "searching" for supernatural gifts, and when they "possess" these gifts they automatically think it is from God when the bible clearly states that Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light...wait... maybe that is a biblical contradiction.

Who says the gifts are supernatural? And who says anyone is searching; many of us had them come to us. And you tell God's work from Satan's by fruit, so you should ask about that. Many of us did and were richly rewarded. All of that is already in the Word of God, so no one is going beyond it to try to articulate what has happened to them.

The key to any "gift", starting with preaching or music or drawing paintings of angels, right on working miracles and raising the dead is the same: It is not about what God is to us, but about what He gives us the power to do to bring Him to the world. You either acknowledge everything God wants us to have, or you run the risk of not receiving all the blessings you might have.

 

[Abiding]

I certainly understand messages coming out of nowhere....airwaves have alot of messages.
Just prefer to shut that out. I use other means for discernment.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Who says the gifts are supernatural? And who says anyone is searching; many of us had them come to us. And you tell God's work from Satan's by fruit, so you should ask about that. Many of us did and were richly rewarded. All of that is already in the Word of God, so no one is going beyond it to try to articulate what has happened to them.

The key to any "gift", starting with preaching or music or drawing paintings of angels, right on working miracles and raising the dead is the same: It is not about what God is to us, but about what He gives us the power to do to bring Him to the world. You either acknowledge everything God wants us to have, or you run the risk of not receiving all the blessings you might have.

I am not going to get in an agrumentt here, I have a 10 year old that I need to ground for disobeying me so I need to log off, but I did find a sight that gives a pretty neat explanation of the gifts. Feel free to read it. Gives a pretty good perspective in my opinion.

9 Powerful Gifts of the Spirit From the Bible

 

[RickyZ]

Sorry. I don't mean to insult and if I crossed that line I apologize

 

[jb]

A bit of a study on the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit (as listed in 1Cor 12v7-11) can be found Here

This is quite a long study, but for those wanting to know about them and have their questions answered it will be well worth going through it...

Yahweh Shalom...