Give up *EVERYTHING*?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#21
Naaaaawwwwww! "Everything" means "everything". Yup, it really does. No kidding - if He puts His finger on it - we need to be willing to have enough FAITH [a word some like to talk about but not live out].

What did Jesus say about our "basics to survive"?

Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.

Mat 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Mat 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.


He is Faithful and we're all Missionaries if we're "willing" ... to what ever degree He takes or asks us to give.

It's a blessed life that some of these folks that were "willing" live. To watch God take someone that lost EVERYTHING for Him and how He provides MIRACULOUSLY ..... Now THAT'S JOY UNSPEAKABLE and a 'true' life of 'faith alone'.

We may all have to go that way someday --- IF that mark-of-beast guy comes in our lifetime -- better to be "willing" now - then not willing then. Right?

Bless ya!
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#22
Oh boy - I didn't put that smilie in there!
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#23
#18 thumbs up!
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
216
63
#24
Naaaaawwwwww! "Everything" means "everything". Yup, it really does. No kidding - if He puts His finger on it - we need to be willing to have enough FAITH [a word some like to talk about but not live out].
Shhh..between you and I.....I know this. :D
He seemed really confused about this. I didn't want him selling everything and living on the streets from my/our advice.
And I don't want you to sir.
Baby steps.....God will get him running eventually.
He shows us all things when we are ready.
At first, I believe it's what I stated......in post 8.:D But after we grow, we put our trust in God for "everything".
 
Last edited:
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#25
Oh, it was your post - #8 -- lol = ;) - I get it now. Was speed reading through... but did catch 10 & 18 like Light.

I think our OP Brother will do just fine. I just get those feelings about things - can't help that.
Always appreciate good humor folks too! Have a funny bone myself that just won't quit - when it gets going - I normally have to put a straight jacket on --- but sometimes I don't catch it in time and off we go to the funny farm on here [like I did on the news section :confused: ].

Thanks, bro!
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#26
.....EVEN Paul who wrote almost half of the N.T. had difficulties with doing wat he should and not dong the things he should not do
The worst thing that a person can do is take a part of a chpt and remove it from the chapter before and after it.

Paul goes into great detail about "sin" in Chpt 6 of Romans. Sample - ie. Rom 6:12-16 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

And in Chpt 8 he goes into great detail about not walking or living after the flesh - Sample - ie. Rom 8:12, 13 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


So what you're doing here, which others do as well - is contradicting everything that Paul said in 6 and 8 by saying that Paul was speaking in "the present tense" in Chpt 7 --- so he's made sin into a sandwich between two chpts where he speaks against sin and flesh when he was actually talking about being a Jew trying to live under the Law in those latter verses in Chpt 7. Lots of people would love to find fault with Paul.
Many of the HRM throw Paul out because he said that we're not saved by the Law and those that lean too far the other way and have UNconditional eternal security beliefs - have to find fault in Paul's walk with God to negate all that he wrote against sin or disobedience and that's what you are doing in this quote above.

....He went from being...
1. The least of the apostles to
2. The least of the saints to
3. The number one chief sinner
Yes, he did say those things - but he also said the complete opposite in other passages, as he got closer to his martyrdom. Why, because he knew he had run the race well. He didn't "shipwreck" his faith nor anyone else's by preaching a mixed or false gospel.
He only said that he was the "chief sinner" because he persecuted the Church - Not because he was presently a sinner. He preached against sin more than any and said in 1Co_11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ and in 2Cor 11:5 "For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles."
Galatians 2 - he's facing off with Peter - and in 1Tim_5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
So do you truly think that Paul was speaking 'present tense' about himself being the chiefest of sinners or in Rom 7 -- such as Rom 7:15 "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I." Or - 7:19 "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. " ?
If we read Romans 7 and to whom is he referring to - we see he's talking about and as one being under the law.

To enjoy the fruits of our labor is from the hand of God<--Solomon said this....
That does not cancel out what Jesus was saying in Luke 14 or Matt 6. It's if God so wills that you enjoy the fruits of our labor ... as some in other countries are Christians in slave labor.


I don't believe in sinless perfection, dc - but I believe we're to rightly divide the Word and "make no occasion for the flesh" in our words to others - except to encourage those that we know are repentive of their failures that there is a way out of that sin that troubles them.... Not encourage them to keep on disappointing themselves by accusing Paul of what he wasn't guilty of when Christ set Paul up to be the spokesmen for the Church or with pats on the back that hints at aiding and abetting more sin rather than showing the way of "ceasing from sin".

As Paul rebuked the Corinthians for allowing what they did in the church -- 1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned....?

1John 2:1 says, "If any man sin ... " but for the most part John spoke against sin as much as Paul did.
Better for us to say, "Thy Word have I hid in my heart, that I may not sin against You" ... and as Paul said in 2Cor 10:5 "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity Every thought to the obedience of Christ"
Recommending others to replace our thoughts with His Word & walk in the Spirit rather than the flesh is the safest and most Scriptural way to help each other be 'overcomers' - not encouraging in any way brothers and sisters to continue to fall and using [of all people] the Apostle Paul.

This is the 3rd time in a week that Paul's name has come up in an erroneous way. I believe it is because he wrote the most books of the N.T.. Those who desire to go "beyond what is written" either the Pro-Law people or the Easy Believism crowd have to find sin in Paul and both groups, according to Paul, are called "puffed up".


Php 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


Mark 8:34 - Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#27
1COR 13:3.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,
and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

LUKE...
Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?...and Jesus told him to keep the Commandments..
and the young ruler said, this I have done..and Jesus told him that he lacked 'one thing'..
Jesus then told him to go and sell all that he had, but the ruler went away sorrowful...

the rich young ruler was coveting, thus breaking the 10th Commandment.

the Lord looked upon the young man's heart and saw that his great weakness was in
coveting material things.
it doesn't matter if it's an idol of the heart or a Rolls-Royce, if it gets in the way or between
us and serving our Master, it's got to go.

the problem lies in our obedience and submission, and of course, how willing we are to stand apart
and separate ourselves, not giving a care for what the 'world thinks' about us.

we cannot serve two masters nor walk down both sides of the street at the same time.

here is where the proof of who we truly are in Christ becomes evident.
we just can't get away from our Father's searching eyes or His constant refining of us.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#28
This is not Scriptural and surely doesn't answer Luke 14 - I need to reply to this one - when I have a chance but as soon as I possibly can.
You must not study your bible, because everything I referenced is in the bible.......! And you missed the point of the post!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Be in the world, but not of the world.....EVEN Paul who wrote almost half of the N.T. had difficulties with doing wat he should and not dong the things he should not do....He went from being...
1. The least of the apostles to
2. The least of the saints to
3. The number one chief sinner

To enjoy the fruits of our labor is from the hand of God<--Solomon said this....

You can live a normal life, have successes and failures, give up the worldliness and still be in the world serving God...

Just know that you are not alone in these difficulties as your brothers and sisters in Christ are gong through the same things...maybe different levels but still enduring just as you are brother.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#29
This is not Scriptural and surely doesn't answer Luke 14 - I need to reply to this one - when I have a chance but as soon as I possibly can.
Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Be in the world, but not of the world.....EVEN Paul who wrote almost half of the N.T. had difficulties with doing what he should and not dong the things he should not do...JOHN 17:15

1. The least of the apostles to 1st Corinthians 15:9
2. The least of the saints to Ephesians 3:8
3. The number one chief sinner1st Timothy 1:15

To enjoy the fruits of our labor is from the hand of God<--Solomon said this....Ecclesiastes 3:13

You can live a normal life, have successes and failures, give up the worldliness and still be in the world serving God...

Just know that you are not alone in these difficulties as your brothers and sisters in Christ are gong through the same things...maybe different levels 1st Peter 5:9

If you are going to mouth me and one of my posts as being unbiblical I suggest you study more and open your eyes to the reasoning behind the post. Everything I said was based upon biblical principles! The whole point is to put God first and that EVEN PAUL had a difficulty with doing what he needed to do and that everybody has difficulty with something...YOURS is MOUTHING before you have ALL of the FACTS!
 
P

pug32

Guest
#30
Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

[SUP]1 Peter 3:15 [/SUP]But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

[SUP]John 17:17 [/SUP]Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

[SUP]Heb. 4:12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.


Your friend in Christ
pug32
 
Last edited by a moderator:
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#31
Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Be in the world, but not of the world.....EVEN Paul who wrote almost half of the N.T. had difficulties with doing what he should and not dong the things he should not do...JOHN 17:15

1. The least of the apostles to 1st Corinthians 15:9
2. The least of the saints to Ephesians 3:8
3. The number one chief sinner1st Timothy 1:15

To enjoy the fruits of our labor is from the hand of God<--Solomon said this....Ecclesiastes 3:13

You can live a normal life, have successes and failures, give up the worldliness and still be in the world serving God...

Just know that you are not alone in these difficulties as your brothers and sisters in Christ are gong through the same things...maybe different levels 1st Peter 5:9

If you are going to mouth me and one of my posts as being unbiblical I suggest you study more and open your eyes to the reasoning behind the post. Everything I said was based upon biblical principles! The whole point is to put God first and that EVEN PAUL had a difficulty with doing what he needed to do and that everybody has difficulty with something...YOURS is MOUTHING before you have ALL of the FACTS!
There goes the big font. I must have posted in Greek in post #26 because you couldn't have understood it and that I didn't deny your list of 3 statements made by Paul - but merely expanded on how the Apostle made other statements also that went further in how he described himself.

No, I think you just didn't even bother to read it, but instantly got offended and went into the defensive mode and reacted.

No use in asking that you read it again.

Except I'd like to clarify a main point - Paul did Not have "difficulty doing what he needed to do". Not at all!

I don't know why you had problems with that post but I'm not interested in defending myself but I will defend an absolutely incredible man that was found without fault and nothing that you interpret as his "problem" Was his problem but your misinterpretation of Romans 7.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


Rom_14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.




Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.


Last time I defended Paul was regarding him going to Jerusalem and those who thought he was 'out of the spirit' by going - when if one read the whole of Acts they'd see that it was ordained by God.
2 Timothy was Paul's last letter from his house arrest in Rome where he was used mightily despite being warned that he'd be "bound" in Jerusalem --- it was obvious that he obeyed God by all that happened with Paul in Jersusalem [Act 23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.] and on that ship on his way to Rome [Act 27:22-26 And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of any man's life among you, but of the ship. For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve, saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee. Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: for I believe God, that it shall be even as it was told me. Howbeit we must be cast upon a certain island.]
And he stood before "kings" [Caesars] as Jesus told His disciples that they would.


And remember all that he had gone through even before he left for Jerusalem and Rome -


2Co 11:22-28 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; in journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.




Yes Sir. Paul could confidently say - "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ" and no one can find a fault in him, unless they misinterpret the clear Word.


 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#32
There goes the big font. I must have posted in Greek in post #26 because you couldn't have understood it and that I didn't deny your list of 3 statements made by Paul - but merely expanded on how the Apostle made other statements also that went further in how he described himself.

No, I think you just didn't even bother to read it, but instantly got offended and went into the defensive mode and reacted.

No use in asking that you read it again.

Except I'd like to clarify a main point - Paul did Not have "difficulty doing what he needed to do". Not at all!

I don't know why you had problems with that post but I'm not interested in defending myself but I will defend an absolutely incredible man that was found without fault and nothing that you interpret as his "problem" Was his problem but your misinterpretation of Romans 7.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


Rom_14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.




Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.


Last time I defended Paul was regarding him going to Jerusalem and those who thought he was 'out of the spirit' by going - when if one read the whole of Acts they'd see that it was ordained by God.
2 Timothy was Paul's last letter from his house arrest in Rome where he was used mightily despite being warned that he'd be "bound" in Jerusalem --- it was obvious that he obeyed God by all that happened with Paul in Jersusalem [Act 23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.] and on that ship on his way to Rome [Act 27:22-26 And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of any man's life among you, but of the ship. For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve, saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee. Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: for I believe God, that it shall be even as it was told me. Howbeit we must be cast upon a certain island.]
And he stood before "kings" [Caesars] as Jesus told His disciples that they would.


And remember all that he had gone through even before he left for Jerusalem and Rome -


2Co 11:22-28 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; in journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.




Yes Sir. Paul could confidently say - "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ" and no one can find a fault in him, unless they misinterpret the clear Word.


I suggest you study more........and I used big font so you can see what I wrote......Your statement was....

Originally Posted by ChristIsGod
This is not Scriptural and surely doesn't answer Luke 14 - I need to reply to this one - when I have a chance but as soon as I possibly can.

Paul said in Romans 7 the following....

1. The THINGS I SAY I AM GOING TO DO I DON'T DO
2. The THINGS I SAY I AM NOT GOING TO DO I DO
3. When I go to do GOOD I find a LAW that SIN IS PRESENT WITH ME.....

Ignore the truth if you want......
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#33
I suggest you study more........and I used big font so you can see what I wrote......Your statement was....

Originally Posted by ChristIsGod
This is not Scriptural and surely doesn't answer Luke 14 - I need to reply to this one - when I have a chance but as soon as I possibly can.

Paul said in Romans 7 the following....

1. The THINGS I SAY I AM GOING TO DO I DON'T DO
2. The THINGS I SAY I AM NOT GOING TO DO I DO
3. When I go to do GOOD I find a LAW that SIN IS PRESENT WITH ME.....

Ignore the truth if you want......

Paul is saying in this chapter that his flesh wars with his new spiritual mind, and he needs to follow the law of God and not the law of the flesh. He is talking about being young in the faith he still has a carnal mind which leads to death, but through the help of the Holy Spirit will learn to walk in the Spirit and not of the flesh.
For then he goes on and says that now that he is under grace, are we free to sin, Certainly Not !!!
That is what he says, then he goes into warnings about what will happen to a believer if they continue to live in willful sin, and serving that sin instead of God.
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#34
Paul said in Romans 7 the following....

1. The THINGS I SAY I AM GOING TO DO I DON'T DO
2. The THINGS I SAY I AM NOT GOING TO DO I DO
3. When I go to do GOOD I find a LAW that SIN IS PRESENT WITH ME.....

Ignore the truth if you want......
This will go back and forth for as long as we're here - as I'll say the same to you - "ignore the truth about Paul's life and what he meant in Romans 7" that is obvious by Everything else that he wrote before and after Romans 7.

I have studied until my eyes burned and I will not move on what I've posted about Paul.

No sense in this back & forth because you will not change Paul's words and I won't try again to point them out to you.

You're just not reading ALL that Paul has written, not only about himself - but about how we should follow him as he followed Christ.

And you certainly haven't studied John because he, through knowing and quoting Jesus' words has made "love" a requirement for salvation.

It's a stalemate between us and we won't see eye-to-eye - because you are neglecting far too much Scripture by Paul, etc..

It's no use to keep on, if you insist that Paul was speaking in the present tense in Rom 7 when the rest of all that he had written totally contradicts that.

It's no use to keep going back and forth with each other on this point nor on the Love verses from John's books.
 
Last edited:
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#35
Paul is saying in this chapter that his flesh wars with his new spiritual mind, and he needs to follow the law of God and not the law of the flesh. He is talking about being young in the faith he still has a carnal mind which leads to death, but through the help of the Holy Spirit will learn to walk in the Spirit and not of the flesh.
For then he goes on and says that now that he is under grace, are we free to sin, Certainly Not !!!
That is what he says, then he goes into warnings about what will happen to a believer if they continue to live in willful sin, and serving that sin instead of God.
Dear Brother, I'm sorry that I'm forced to disagree with you as well on what Paul is doing here in Romans 7 - the whole chapter in context over Every Word that this man has written and has said of himself.

He is illustrated as no other JEW could the inability to live up to the what God has commanded while under the law of Moses.

He, of all people would know, having been a Pharisee of the Pharisees and with more zeal then most - so he could tell these Gentiles that are being pulled by those Jews that migrated to Rome and have been 'affected' by those that wanted to bring these Roman gentiles under the law in inefficientcy to obey the Law and what he experienced while trying to - before Christ and the infilling of His Spirit --- as he goes on in chpt 8 to describe what we now have available to us with His indwelling Spirit to walk after the spirit and not the flesh and not by this law that failed him.

He is putting himself as an example in Rom 7 of what he went through and couldn't accomplish while under the Law.

Everything that this man, Paul, has written and did by the power of God countradicts any failures that he lists in Romans 7 and any commands that he gave the Church through-out ALL of his epistles.

He using himself - pre-Christ - as the example of the struggle that he had while trying to live out righteousness under The Law. Only he could do it, being who he was - taught of Gamaliel and having the extreme zeal that he possessed while under just The Law. He's speaking in a sort of 'third person' -- not his present state as a Spirit filled Christian.

This chpt is very controversial between the very many scholar since Paul wrote this chpt but the weight of ALL ELSE that Paul had written, out-weighs any indication that he was speaking of his present state - but merely as the man he was before Christ and the stuggles he encountered, under The Law.

Romans 6 and 8 that sandwich 7 is alone a proof that he is keeping with an example of trying to live out His Righteousness without His Spirit abiding IN us - as he does in chpt 8 and through-out his entire testimony in the Church since being saved.

God Bless!
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#36
It's very simple. A Christian is a joint heir and adopted member of the high priesthood. This means that God alone is our inheritance, and the world is supposed to tithe to the priesthood. Christians are supposed to be of a common wealth. So the simple answer is that what we are stewards of is not ours alone, it is ours together. If we say we own something that's not the priesthoods, then we declare that we are separate from the priesthood.
 
J

jeff_peacemkr

Guest
#37
[God] Himself has said, I will not in any way fail you nor [c]give you up nor leave you without support. [I will] not, [d][I will] not, [I will] not in any degree leave you helpless nor forsake nor [e]let [you] down ([f]relax My hold on you)! [[g]Assuredly not!] (from Hebrews)

you are right. most (people)(see Revelation)(how many refuse to turn to God) on earth are deceived , deceiving others, and deceiving themselves. Jesus is the only Way to the Truth.



Luke 14:33, "In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple." (you can read the whole chapter in context, just didn't feel like typing it all out).

If Jesus means give up all of our wants, then I don't know of a single Christian (including myself) in my church that's going to heaven, as we're not disciples of God. If he literally means give up everything, including the shirt from our back and our food and water that we bought from the job that we have, which we also should give up, then I don't know of a single person (other than missionaries and some pastors) that would be considered disciples. Therefore most Christians on this earth are deceiving themselves.

Where is the line? What does Jesus really mean by "everything"? In theory I would even give up the last shirt that I have for Jesus, but practically that kind of seems absurd.

The second question is: Was this question directed to people who could talk to Jesus face to face? They literally would give up everything to follow him at that time. But now that we can't physically follow the man Jesus, is this commandment slightly different now that Jesus is not physically as a man on this earth? What should we give up today to truly be disciples of God?

This is something that I am uneasy about. I really want to follow God with my whole heart, but I know that I am not there yet. I'm still trying to get past certain habitual sins, so I do feel I am walking in darkness yet. But also, if I'm supposed to give up everything... that almost seems impossible unless I become a homeless street preacher who nobody listens to, or I become a missionary which I don't feel that's my calling. Any answers to help me out here is greatly appreciated. Also, if you can give references to your answers to back up what you are saying, that will also help a lot as well. Thanks in advance!

I'm just trying to do some honest soul searching here.
 
J

jeff_peacemkr

Guest
#38
if you went to boot camp (i did), you don't get to take things with you (very few anyway).

and then to service, you only take what they say you can take. they take everything else (including your choice) away.

what did the disciples of Jesus do ? (and say, as it is written)

and how were they treated then (in Scripture), and ever since then ?

how were the APOSTLES even treated >>

. Much of the time we don’t have enough to eat, we wear patched and threadbare clothes, we get doors slammed in our faces, and we pick up odd jobs anywhere we can to eke out a living. When they call us names, we say, “God bless you.” When they spread rumors about us, we put in a good word for them. We’re treated like garbage, potato peelings from the culture’s kitchen. And it’s not getting any better.
 
J

jeff_peacemkr

Guest
#39
it's like we walk on earth and have Jesus to listen to, or the nazi commandant. which one , whose orders/instructions, do we follow ?
whoever we obey(or whatever we obey), they are our master.

for life, obey Jesus.
for everything else, ....... rather not go there.....

Paul is saying in this chapter that his flesh wars with his new spiritual mind, and he needs to follow the law of God and not the law of the flesh. He is talking about being young in the faith he still has a carnal mind which leads to death, but through the help of the Holy Spirit will learn to walk in the Spirit and not of the flesh.
For then he goes on and says that now that he is under grace, are we free to sin, Certainly Not !!!
That is what he says, then he goes into warnings about what will happen to a believer if they continue to live in willful sin, and serving that sin instead of God.
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#40
I figured this might help clarify a bit more.
Just as Jesus spoke from 2 perspectives to the disciples concerning Lazarus sleeping/being dead, the same goes for our belongings/time/resources. From the perspective of the flesh it is ours, and from the perspective of the Christians /spirit/priesthood it is not.