GOD DIVORCED "PHYSICAL" ISRAEL

VRJ · Mar 16, 2011

Jeremiah 3:8 (also 2:21); " And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorcement; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also."

God put forth the law of divorcement. He will not break his own law.

Deuteronomy 24:1,4; " When a man hath taken a wife, (physical Israel) and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. (4) Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination(abomination of desolation to give ones heritage away) before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance."

This is telling us that great tribulation comes upon those who give their heritage away. Physical Israel is not our heritage. Daniel says: "When ye "see" the abomination." Well, I would say we are seeing it. Many are trying to bring back physical Israel as ones heritage.

Zechariah 11:10 (God's anger to a nation) "And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people."
Hosea 1:6,9; "And she conceived again, and bare a daughter, And God said unto him, Call her name Lor-ru'ha-mah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; ut I will utterly take them away."

One wonders why American since 1948 has gone down hill, prayer taken out of schools, abortion on the land, lose of jobs, etc. Christians need to remove their blinders from their eyes.

THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN ISRAEL (just not going to always be a physical one)

Isaiah 54:5,6,7,8; "For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. (6)For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. (7) For a small monent have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. (8) In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer."

BROKEN COVENANT BUT NOW A NEW AND EVERLASTING COVENANT

Jeremiah 11:1-9; "The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord saying, (2) Hear ye the words of this covenant, and speak unto the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem; (3) And say thou unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel; Cursed be the man that obeyeth not the words of this covenant, (4) Which I commanded your fathers in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, Obey my voice, and do them, according to all which I command you: so shall ye be my people, and I will be your God: (5) That I may perform the oath which I have sworn unto your fathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day. Then answered I, and said, So be it, O Lord. (6) Then the Lord said unto me, Proclaim all these words in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, saying, Hear ye the words of this covenant, and do them. (7) For I earnestly protested unto your fathers in the day that I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, even unto this day, rising early and protesting, saying, Obey my voice. (8) Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do: but they did them not (9) And the Lord said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem."

Jeremiah 11: 10-23; tells us that Israel broke the old covenant. (read)
Jeremiah chapter 31: 28-30 tells again of them breaking the covenant. (read)

Jeremiah 11: 28-32 is telling us something new here: (a new covenant) He is saying here that the new covenant in Christ is a one on one relationship with Christ (no more of the sour grapes and the iniquities of their fathers)
Verse 31; "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a (new covenant) with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Verse 32; "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which (my covenant they brake), although I (was and husband unto them, saith the Lord). (was a husband) in the law of Moses you can not go back and remarry your once wife. (Deut. ch. 24:4)

Here is where we get the famous saying (sour grapes). in the NT it is called weeping and gnashing of teeth,

Ezekiel 18:2; "What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the (children's teeth are set on edge).

HE WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT NOT LIKE THE OLD ONE WHICH WAS BROKEN. iT WILL BE WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS VS.33(INWARD PARTS) ALSO IN ROMANS 11:29

Romans 11:29 "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter;; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Old Testament Israel was Yahweh's wife, the vessel that was marred in the hand of the potters was defiled he made it again in a new vessel of honer as prophesied in the book of Jeremiah 18:4,6; "And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessell, as seemed good to the potter to make it." (6)O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel." (also Isaiah 29:16) "Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Then in Acts 17:6; "And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also Jesus turned the world upside down at the cross." The kingdom and everything in it was translated into the spiritual. This is why we must be reborn of the Spirit.
Galatians 3:17 Christ confirmed a new covenant: And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law(old)which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect." This goes with Daniel 9:27; "And he (Jesus) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week." IT'S A SPIRITUAL COVENANT NOW NOT PHYSICAL.
A new covenant, and there are new Jews, those who are inward Jews and circumcised of the heart.
The old covenant has grown old and vanished away. He has sealed up Daniel 9:24 and FINISHED all that the father had given him to do. His blood sealed the covenant. To give credit to anyone else or anything other than Christ is a complete abomination, and that spirit of antichrist.
They will all wonder after the beast, following the lie, all the while believing it to be the truth. Thus they will create their own prophecy(strong delusion) Because they received not the love of the truth. II Thess. 2 says the result's are they make lies their refuge.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 16, 2011

VRJ said:

There are many falacies in your argument, I will show but a few.

1. God prophesied that Isreal would reject, and be sent to the ends of the earth, But he would restor them to their land, give life to their nation,

4 Again He said to me, “Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: “Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. 6 I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.”’”
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over; but there was no breath in them.
9 Also He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.”’” 10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it,” says the LORD.’”

We know this is physical Israel. by what the prophet states next!

15 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.
18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.”’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

This can not be translated any way but to be a prophesy concerning the nation of Israel!

1. Isreal (the northern kingdom) and Judah (the southern was devided.

2. The northern kingdom was taken by syria and "dispersed throughout the world

3. The southern kingdom (Judah thus the name jew) were taken by babylon, then restored to the land, then in 70 AD they were too dispersed throughout the earth.

4. At no time since the northern kingdom have they been united.

5. God states he will bring them back, make them one nation (no longer devided between north and south) and BE THER GOD.

most importantly.. we have the prophesy that 70 AD will take place, and at a later time, Israel will be restored.

Paul speaks of this in Romans:11

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:

“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”[h]

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.

Paul makes it clear God will fulfill the prophesy spoken of by the prophet Ezekial. Yes they were lost, yes they were no longer in their land. But they will be brought back. It started in the 1940's, and will continue until God brings them all back at the end of the tribulation period, and restors their kingdom as one nation, with the son of David taking his rightfull place on the throne of David in jerusalem!!

The notion that God has taken the covenant made with Isreal concerning them as a nation and given it to someone else is wrong. And calls God a liar!

VRJ · Mar 16, 2011

You have been taught as others that the two sticks in Ezekiel chapter 37 are the two physical Israel and Judah brought back together.

Isaiah 10:20,21,22; " And it shall come to pass in that day(tribulation day), that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them: but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. (21)The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God. (22) For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shalll return: the consumption(means end) decreed shall overflow with righteousness.." These are those who are in truth as to who Christ Jesus is. Jesus on the cross said:"It is finished."
You are either in Christ or not. One shepherd, one fold. There is neither Jew or Gentile in Christ Jesus. If it was finished on the cross and are adding on to something else you make Christ blood of none effect and that is an abomination.
In the book of Revelation we see two groups of people: 144,000 and another group called the Multitude. These are christians yet, 144,000 are called the firstfruits but the Multitude go through fire and stand on a sea (get that sea of glass). Matthew 25 tells us a story of these two groups. One group wise another group fooshish. These are the two groups brought together.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 16, 2011

VRJ said:

Unfortunately, You are among those who believe the church today is fullfilling the covenants God made with the (physical) discendents of Isreal.

Since when do we put the "Tribulation" into the interpretation of Isaiah? It is not infired, nor should it be assumed this is what God is talking about. The whole chapter concerns the overthrow of Israel (the northern kingdom), By the assyrians.

No where in context can the tribulation be inserted into that passage. what a rediculous concept and foolish way to try to prove your point.

So Paul was wrong when he spoke of a literal return of Isreal into her land in Romans? Thats funny, if the church took over physical Israels covenant, then paul would not talk about a future return of Israel, after gods time with the Gentiles (the church) was completed!

I guess Paul was misinformed, Since he should not have been talking aboutr a future return, Since he was a part of that return.

sorry. But you have failed to prove your point!

zone · Mar 16, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

where does paul say there will be a literal return to present jerusalem?

OH YA! HE DOESN'T.

Galatians 4
1Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

12Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. 13Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. 14And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. 15Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me. 16Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? 17They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them. 18But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you. 19My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, 20I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.

21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

zone · Mar 16, 2011

VRJ said:

Dispensationalism rejects the notion of supersessionism, sees the Jewish people as the true people of God, and sees the modern State of Israel as identical to the Israel of the Bible. John Nelson Darby taught, and most subsequent dispensationalists have consistently maintained, that God looks upon the Jews as his chosen people even as they remain in rejection of Jesus Christ, and God continues to have a place for them in the dispensational, prophetic scheme of things. Dispensationalists teach that a remnant within the nation of Israel will be born again, called of God, and by grace brought to realize they crucified their Messiah.

Dispensationalism is unique in teaching that the Church is a provisional parenthesis, a "mystery" period, meaning that it was not revealed in the Old Testament, directly, which period will end with the rapture of the church and the Jewish remnant entering the Great Tribulation.

Israel will finally recognize Jesus as their promised Messiah during the trials that come upon them in this Tribulation. Darby's teachings envision Judaism as continuing to enjoy God's protection literally to the End of Time, and teach that God has a separate 'program', to use J. Dwight Pentecost's term, for each Israel and the Church. Dispensationalists teach that God has eternal covenants with Israel which cannot be broken.

Political analyst Richard Allen Greene has argued that dispensationalism has had a major influence on the foreign policy of the United States. This influence has included continued support for the state of Israel.[28]

Political commentator Kevin Phillips points out in his book American Theocracy (2006) how dispensationalists and other fundamentalist Christians, together with the oil lobby, have provided political support for the invasion of Iraq in 2003, without approval of the United Nations.

Dispensationalist themes form the basis of the popular Left Behind series of books. However, not all dispensationalists agree with the theology of authors Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.

Scotth1960 · Mar 16, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

There are many falacies in your argument, I will show but a few.

1. God prophesied that Isreal would reject, and be sent to the ends of the earth, But he would restor them to their land, give life to their nation,

4 Again He said to me, “Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: “Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. 6 I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.”’”
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over; but there was no breath in them.
9 Also He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.”’” 10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it,” says the LORD.’”

We know this is physical Israel. by what the prophet states next!

15 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.
18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.”’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

This can not be translated any way but to be a prophesy concerning the nation of Israel!

1. Isreal (the northern kingdom) and Judah (the southern was devided.

2. The northern kingdom was taken by syria and "dispersed throughout the world

3. The southern kingdom (Judah thus the name jew) were taken by babylon, then restored to the land, then in 70 AD they were too dispersed throughout the earth.

4. At no time since the northern kingdom have they been united.

5. God states he will bring them back, make them one nation (no longer devided between north and south) and BE THER GOD.

most importantly.. we have the prophesy that 70 AD will take place, and at a later time, Israel will be restored.

Paul speaks of this in Romans:11

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:

“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”[h]

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.

Paul makes it clear God will fulfill the prophesy spoken of by the prophet Ezekial. Yes they were lost, yes they were no longer in their land. But they will be brought back. It started in the 1940's, and will continue until God brings them all back at the end of the tribulation period, and restors their kingdom as one nation, with the son of David taking his rightfull place on the throne of David in jerusalem!!

The notion that God has taken the covenant made with Isreal concerning them as a nation and given it to someone else is wrong. And calls God a liar!

Jeremiah prophesied that God would make a new covenant with the house of Israel? Why? Because the Old covenant has PASSED AWAY (see the whole Book of Hebrews).
The Old Testament is now FULFILLED in the NEW COVENANT OF THE CHURCH. Thus, in Christ, "There is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile) ..." Special privileges for Jews are over; nor are there special privileges for Gentiles. God has removed the barrier of separation between Jew and Gentile: Christ is for all peoples. Christ is the way back to God. Not the Law of Moses. The Law is just a tutor to convert us to Jesus Christ. Christ is the way, the truth, and the life: no one comes back to God the Father, except through Christ. The blood of animals can not atone for sins; only the blood of Christ, the Lamb of God, can take away all of our sins. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
PS There is no unconditional covenant for land rights for Israel. God intends the land of Israel to be shared by all people who choose to live there: it is not for Jews only. Christians, Jews, Muslims, anyone, should be able to live there. In freedom, although I don't know why people would choose to do it, people should be able to live in peace and practice their religions in any country, free from government control, persecution, or interference. Take care.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 16, 2011

zone said:

I am so sick of people proving they did not read anything or only part of what I wrote. and then coming and saying I am wrong, Or I said something I did not say.

was we talking about galatians?? I did not think so, so how does this respond to what I posted??

so lets try this again. I will repost what I said, if you want to comment, comment to what I said, and stop ignoring it. If people continue to refuse to talk about what I posted, or say I said something I never said, all I can do is assume they are skirting the issue, because they know it proves them wrong, or are afraid to discuss what is actually said because they are not sure. I pray this is not you!!

I said:

So if you are going to respond and say I am wrong, show me how I am wrong here.

zone · Mar 16, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

Matthew 8:8-12
But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 21:41
They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”

Matthew 21:43
Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.

Acts 28:28
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

LET'S SEE IF THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT PLANS FOR SALVATION:

Acts 2
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

The Fellowship of the Believers
42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43And awed came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

AnandaHya · Mar 16, 2011

remember our mission is to tell people the GOOD NEWS.

YouTube - Casting Crowns - Until the Whole world Hears - Casting Crowns w/lyrics

Until the whole hears, we need to ready ourselves and not fight amongst ourselves but against the darkness that would lead people away from JESUS!

eternally-gratefull · Mar 16, 2011

Scotth1960 said:

For the last time, There are two aspects to the covenants given the nation of Israel to abraham.

1. Salvation to all nations. If we are discussing this aspect. then everything you said is correct. Then again, the law NEVER SAVED ANYONE, so even Jews following their law were not saved by the law. There mistake was thinking it did, which is why they rejected their messiah.

2. Pertaining to the BLOOD descendants of abraham. Salvation is NOT in view here, God madxe specific promises to abraham concerning his blood children. (they would have land, Someone who is born to them would be their king, etc etc) these promises were NOT CONDITIONAL PROMISES. WHich means even the failure of the jews to follow God will not prevent God from keeping these promises. God said I WILL, He did not say, If your people do this I WILL. Gods covenant with Abraham and David are not an If/I Will covenant, They are I WILL, which means if God does not keep these promises GOD LIED. Is our god a liar? I did not think so. So why do so many want to make him out to be a liar??

I can not agree, show me where Gods specific covenant with abraham concerning the land was given to all people, not just Abrahams physical descendants..

zone · Mar 16, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

JOSHUA 21
1Then came near the heads of the fathers of the Levites unto Eleazar the priest, and unto Joshua the son of Nun, and unto the heads of the fathers of the tribes of the children of Israel; 2And they spake unto them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, saying, The LORD commanded by the hand of Moses to give us cities to dwell in, with the suburbs thereof for our cattle. 3And the children of Israel gave unto the Levites out of their inheritance, at the commandment of the LORD, these cities and their suburbs. 4And the lot came out for the families of the Kohathites: and the children of Aaron the priest, which were of the Levites, had by lot out of the tribe of Judah, and out of the tribe of Simeon, and out of the tribe of Benjamin, thirteen cities.

5And the rest of the children of Kohath had by lot out of the families of the tribe of Ephraim, and out of the tribe of Dan, and out of the half tribe of Manasseh, ten cities.

6And the children of Gershon had by lot out of the families of the tribe of Issachar, and out of the tribe of Asher, and out of the tribe of Naphtali, and out of the half tribe of Manasseh in Bashan, thirteen cities.

7The children of Merari by their families had out of the tribe of Reuben, and out of the tribe of Gad, and out of the tribe of Zebulun, twelve cities.

8And the children of Israel gave by lot unto the Levites these cities with their suburbs, as the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses.

9And they gave out of the tribe of the children of Judah, and out of the tribe of the children of Simeon, these cities which are here mentioned by name, 10Which the children of Aaron, being of the families of the Kohathites, who were of the children of Levi, had: for theirs was the first lot. 11And they gave them the city of Arba the father of Anak, which city is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, with the suburbs thereof round about it. 12But the fields of the city, and the villages thereof, gave they to Caleb the son of Jephunneh for his possession.

13Thus they gave to the children of Aaron the priest Hebron with her suburbs, to be a city of refuge for the slayer; and Libnah with her suburbs, 14And Jattir with her suburbs, and Eshtemoa with her suburbs, 15And Holon with her suburbs, and Debir with her suburbs, 16And Ain with her suburbs, and Juttah with her suburbs, and Bethshemesh with her suburbs; nine cities out of those two tribes.
17And out of the tribe of Benjamin, Gibeon with her suburbs, Geba with her suburbs, 18Anathoth with her suburbs, and Almon with her suburbs; four cities. 19All the cities of the children of Aaron, the priests, were thirteen cities with their suburbs.

20And the families of the children of Kohath, the Levites which remained of the children of Kohath, even they had the cities of their lot out of the tribe of Ephraim. 21For they gave them Shechem with her suburbs in mount Ephraim, to be a city of refuge for the slayer; and Gezer with her suburbs, 22And Kibzaim with her suburbs, and Bethhoron with her suburbs; four cities. 23And out of the tribe of Dan, Eltekeh with her suburbs, Gibbethon with her suburbs, 24Aijalon with her suburbs, Gathrimmon with her suburbs; four cities. 25And out of the half tribe of Manasseh, Tanach with her suburbs, and Gathrimmon with her suburbs; two cities. 26All the cities were ten with their suburbs for the families of the children of Kohath that remained.

27And unto the children of Gershon, of the families of the Levites, out of the other half tribe of Manasseh they gave Golan in Bashan with her suburbs, to be a city of refuge for the slayer; and Beeshterah with her suburbs; two cities. 28And out of the tribe of Issachar, Kishon with her suburbs, Dabareh with her suburbs, 29Jarmuth with her suburbs, Engannim with her suburbs; four cities. 30And out of the tribe of Asher, Mishal with her suburbs, Abdon with her suburbs, 31Helkath with her suburbs, and Rehob with her suburbs; four cities. 32And out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with her suburbs, to be a city of refuge for the slayer; and Hammothdor with her suburbs, and Kartan with her suburbs; three cities. 33All the cities of the Gershonites according to their families were thirteen cities with their suburbs.

34And unto the families of the children of Merari, the rest of the Levites, out of the tribe of Zebulun, Jokneam with her suburbs, and Kartah with her suburbs, 35Dimnah with her suburbs, Nahalal with her suburbs; four cities. 36And out of the tribe of Reuben, Bezer with her suburbs, and Jahazah with her suburbs, 37Kedemoth with her suburbs, and Mephaath with her suburbs; four cities. 38And out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with her suburbs, to be a city of refuge for the slayer; and Mahanaim with her suburbs, 39Heshbon with her suburbs, Jazer with her suburbs; four cities in all.

40So all the cities for the children of Merari by their families, which were remaining of the families of the Levites, were by their lot twelve cities.

41All the cities of the Levites within the possession of the children of Israel were forty and eight cities with their suburbs. 42These cities were every one with their suburbs round about them: thus were all these cities.

And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

I HAD TO MAKE IT BIG....SORRY.
back to 2pt Tahoma.

did God, or did He NOT give them everything He promised concerning the land? yes...or no.....?

zone · Mar 16, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

Zechariah 9:9
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; righteous and having salvation is he, humble and mounted on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

Matthew 21:5
“Say to the daughter of Zion, ‘Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on a donkey, and on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden.’”

John 19:14
Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover. It was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, “Behold your King!”

John 19:19
Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross. It read, “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews.”

John 19:21
So the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, “Do not write, ‘The King of the Jews,’ but rather, ‘This man said, I am King of the Jews.’”

John 19:22
Pilate answered, “What I have written I have written.”

VRJ · Mar 16, 2011

I am not a despensalist. Nor is there a construct called the church. Christians are the called out ones. Isaac had to dig out the wells that were full of garbage. The church today has to be cleaned out it has piled so much garbage down with it's own garbage. The time of tribulation is the cleansing of the church for today to get back what others have shoved down peoples throat. Jesus Christ is coming for a purified church. The tribulation is for this purifying. Cleaning out the garbage.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 17, 2011

Well, as anyone can see here, Not a one response to Romans 11. Since people do not wish to discuss this passage, and all they want to do is look at other passages, which are not worth arguing over, because we disagree with what they mean, and since this is a non salvic issue, i see no need to go further.

To anyone who wishes to see what I believe, just ask. You can see these people are doing what many do and refuse to look at passages which they can't respond to.

I know this. Israel is the ONLY NATION in the history of mankind who has been conquered completely by a foriegn nation (more than once I might add) who still holds her national identity, And blood line (can someone show me an edomite who is pure? A cananite? or for that matter any nation in the OT which was overthrown?)

Not only this, But israel is also the only nation in the history which was removed from her land, and then given her land back (She was gonealmost 2000 years, and is now back)

For those studying Israel, The only thing keeping her from building the temple and restoring sacrificial rights and the priesthood is the place to the put temple (the dome of the rock stands on what is believed to be the holy of holies) yet they have all things needed, the known levite, the preistly garments, the utencils which belong in the temple, even the cattle which were to be sacrificed.

To those of us who believe in a future restoration of Israel spoken of by the prophets and paul, this is awsome! We see Gods promises and prophetic things coming true. which has not been seen in almost 2000 years.

To those who do not believe it. When you see The temple rebuilt, When you see a covenant made by a world leader in the are of the old roman empire (modern day europe) sign a covenant to protece Isreal and allow her to worhsip in a temple. When you see this same leader 3 1/2 years after this covenant is signs (after he destroys the harlot or false church) abominate the inner sanctom of that temple and declare to himself be the messiah. I pray if you are not born again, you realise this and turn to God, for after this, Christ promises three years of tribulation such has nevver been seen on this earth. We think the massive earthquakes and sunamies we have seen the past few years, the Hurricains, and tornadic catastophies, not to mention volcanic destruction is bad. This is just the growing pains spoken of By Christ. This is nothing compaired to the 3 1/2 years of Hell (jacob's trouble) Where scripture says 1/3 of the Earth will be destroyed by fire from heaven (has anyone seen this in the last 2000 years? I did not think so) and more catastophies such as have never been seen.

zone · Mar 17, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

typical.

one single WORD in Romans 11 (ALL - meaning so simply the full number of the elect remnant) misunderstood and manipulated to help with the SHORT SPACE DELUSION by those who refuse to understand that Jesus meant what He said, concerning the passing away of the Old Covenant and more specifically Old Jerusalem which would be left ETERNALLY DESOLATE:

Matthew 23:38
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

~ any person reasonably familiar with The New Testament (dispensationalists rarely are) and The Plan of Redemption to a New Heavens and New Earth can see paul said exactly the same thing. and, Paul was one of those that Jesus said He would send for that last call: and for the condemnation of those willfull and continuing enemies of the Cross:

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Matthew 23:3837 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Their continued blindness and obstinacy; Ye shall not see me, that is, not see me to be the Messiah (for otherwise they did see him upon the cross), not see the light of the truth concerning me, nor the things that belong to your peace, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh. They will never be convinced, till Christ's second coming convince them, when it will be too late to make an interest in him, and nothing will remain but a fearful looking for of judgment. Note, (1.) Wilful blindness is often punished with judicial blindness. If they will not see, they shall not see. With this word he concludes his public preaching. After his resurrection, which was the sign of the prophet Jonas, they should have no other sign given them, till they should see the sign of the Son of man, ch. 24:30. (2.) When the Lord comes with ten thousand of his saints, he will convince all, and will force acknowledgments from the proudest of his enemies, of his being the Messiah, and even they shall be found liars to him. They that would not now come at his call, shall then be forced to depart with his curse. The chief priests and scribes were displeased with the children for crying hosanna to Christ; but the day is coming, when proud persecutors would gladly be found in the condition of the meanest and poorest they now trample upon. They who now reproach and ridicule the hosannas of the saints will be of another mind shortly; it were therefore better to be of that mind now. Some make this to refer to the conversion of the Jews to the faith of Christ; then they shall see him, and own him, and say, Blessed is he that cometh; but it seems rather to look further, for the complete manifestation of Christ, and conviction of sinners, are reserved to be the glory of the last day.
Henry

Matthew 2329Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

~ if this says that some who rejected Christ ARE CONDEMNED, the mishandling of God's purpose of election is very dire indeed, negating his Judgments, attempting to make them of none effect.

~ in order to make Romans 11 LITERALLY mean ALL: dispensational theology (Irving/Darby/Untermeir/Scofield) has concocted a thoroughly ridiculous (though clever) fable (Talmudic in origin) of a literal 1,000 years AFTER CHRIST'S COMING IN JUDGMENT....to have ALL (including Babylonian Temple cultists Christ condemned) resurrected into 2nd flesh bodies to be saved.

~ again, as with Daniel 9, a few clever tweaks to "prophecy" and language UNDOES the Finished Work and places everyone's hope in a nonexistent dispensation. it's tragic and disgraceful...but prophesied to happen (just not the way the xtain zionists think)

eternally-gratefull said:

what's that got to do with anything other than The Great Whore setting up shop?

she has used nearly 1600 years of manipulation, deception and wickedness to get where she is now...and people who CLAIM the name of christ HAVE BEEN HELPING!!!!!!!

Jesus Christ left Moriah DESOLATE.

but, satan MUST be released for a short space to once again deceive the goyim concerning the matters of the Gospel.

is there ANY HINT WHATSOEVER from Paul (the Hebrew of Hebrews) of a future dispensation in present Jerusalem?

A SINGLE WORD? EVER? in fact, Paul uetterly refutes even the suggestion.

what about Peter? NOTHING. this comes from OT "studies", helped by corrupted dispy teachings.

Galatians 4

21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

~ btw: why aren't you addressing JOSHUA 21?

eternally-gratefull said:

~ the only stopping her from reinstituting animal sacrifices is written here:

2 Thessalonians 2
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

My God...forgive them.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 17, 2011

zone said:

See this is what I mean. Did this person actually discuss romans 11? NO!! He is still refusing to discuss it.. why?

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion,

What is the mystery paul is speaking of? The Church?? Well he gives us the answer!! And he tells us why, So we would not think ourselves to be wise in this matter!!

that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

This is easy to read, if we just open our eyes.

1. Blindness IN PART has happened to Israel (few are truely saved, but for the most part, they have rejected their messiah.

2. How long will this blindness last? Until the fullness of the Gentiles (the church) is completed.

he Goes on!

26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:

“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

There are a few things we can take from here.

1. It can not be taken to be speaking of the church or gentiles. For the church are not said to be "blinded in part" and this is the age of the gentile so can not be speaking of them.

2. Although Israel in part is blind now, They will be restored. They will be delivered. God will turn away their ungodliness and restore then to him.

3. God will fullfill his covevant with national Israel at a future date, as he promised!

4. At some time, ALL who reject Christ (enemies of God) will be eliminated, and only those who have turned to God will be left standing ( a prophesy spoken of concerning the end battle, when Christ returns)

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

Why are they enemies concerning the Gospel? Because for th emost part they reject it, As they rejected their messiah!

Has God forgotten them? Has his "election" or covenant with them stopped or been given to another? NO! Paul makes it clear, they as a nation are LOVED because of the election (I will bless them who bless you and curse them who curse you) still stands.

Yet this person only wants to look at one word.. "ALL"

Dude if you can't show you have some knowledge of scripture and how to interpret a passage, and just wish to look at passages which SEEM to support your view. we can have no discussion!!

Israel is not the whore. The Whore is the false wife. Israel does not claim to be a "wife" or the Bride of Christ. nor is she playing the Harlot . You have this wrong.

Satan has never been bound. He walks the earth today as a rooring lion seeking whoever he may to devour. Even Christians. When satan in bound, he will have no ability to devour or tempt anyone. Yes the Church, through the work of the Holy Spirit, is restraining what Satan can do, But he is not bound, he is free to roam. A person who is bound can not go anywhere, or do anything. Satan is not, nor has he ever been in this state.

Yet in Romans 11 he states this very thing. You just refuse to acknowledge it!

zone · Mar 17, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

New International Version (©1984)
What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,

New Living Translation (©2007)
So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened.

English Standard Version (©2001)
What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;

International Standard Version (©2008)
What, then, does this mean? It means that Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking, but the selected group obtained it while the rest were hardened.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
So what does all this mean? It means that Israel has never achieved what it has been striving for. However, those whom God has chosen have achieved it. The minds of the rest of Israel were closed,

King James Bible
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

American King James Version
What then? Israel has not obtained that which he seeks for; but the election has obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

American Standard Version
What then? that which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened:

Bible in Basic English
What then? That which Israel was searching for he did not get, but those of the selection got it and the rest were made hard.

Douay-Rheims Bible
What then? That which Israel sought, he hath not obtained: but the election hath obtained it; and the rest have been blinded.

Darby Bible Translation
What is it then? What Israel seeks for, that he has not obtained; but the election has obtained, and the rest have been blinded,

English Revised Version
What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened:

Webster's Bible Translation
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Weymouth New Testament
How then does the matter stand? It stands thus. That which Israel are in earnest pursuit of, they have not obtained; but God's chosen servants have obtained it, and the rest have become hardened.

World English Bible
What then? That which Israel seeks for, that he didn't obtain, but the chosen ones obtained it, and the rest were hardened.

Young's Literal Translation
What then? What Israel doth seek after, this it did not obtain, and the chosen did obtain, and the rest were hardened

Mark 6:52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened.

Romans 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Romans 9:31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.

Romans 10:3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.

Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.

Ephesians 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 17, 2011

zone said:

New International Version (©1984)
What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,

New Living Translation (©2007)
So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened.

English Standard Version (©2001)
What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;

International Standard Version (©2008)
What, then, does this mean? It means that Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking, but the selected group obtained it while the rest were hardened.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
So what does all this mean? It means that Israel has never achieved what it has been striving for. However, those whom God has chosen have achieved it. The minds of the rest of Israel were closed,

King James Bible
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

American King James Version
What then? Israel has not obtained that which he seeks for; but the election has obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

American Standard Version
What then? that which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened:

Bible in Basic English
What then? That which Israel was searching for he did not get, but those of the selection got it and the rest were made hard.

Douay-Rheims Bible
What then? That which Israel sought, he hath not obtained: but the election hath obtained it; and the rest have been blinded.

Darby Bible Translation
What is it then? What Israel seeks for, that he has not obtained; but the election has obtained, and the rest have been blinded,

English Revised Version
What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened:

Webster's Bible Translation
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Weymouth New Testament
How then does the matter stand? It stands thus. That which Israel are in earnest pursuit of, they have not obtained; but God's chosen servants have obtained it, and the rest have become hardened.

World English Bible
What then? That which Israel seeks for, that he didn't obtain, but the chosen ones obtained it, and the rest were hardened.
Young's Literal Translation
What then? What Israel doth seek after, this it did not obtain, and the chosen did obtain, and the rest were hardened

Mark 6:52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened. Romans 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Romans 9:31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Romans 10:3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Ephesians 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.

Well talk about a waste of time. None of these things you posted speak to the actual verses I posted in romans 11.

Yes, and I have agreed many times, When we are talking about salvation. Israel failed, and did not get it. This is why Paul said they have been blinded. (which means Paul agrees with you and myself in this issue) But we are NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS ARE WE!!

You fail to look at everything I posted in what Paul said.. WHY? Are you afraid??

You keep going off on tangents like this, and not discussing what Paul actually said. All I can do is assume you are afraid to. And there is nothing further we can discuss!!

zone · Mar 17, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

[SIZE=+4]SO ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Chapter 15[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+2]THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]With an Examination[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]of DISPENSATIONALISM[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]and the "Scofield Bible"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]by[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Philip Mauro[/SIZE]

IN my comments on the words, "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom. 11:25) I pointed out that, notwithstanding that the passage in which those words occur is plainly a prophecy of the state in which the Jewish people were to exist throughout this present age, and that it says nothing whatever as to their state thereafter, it is now commonly interpreted as predicting that, in a future "dispensation," the whole nation is to be healed of its spiritual blindness. The next words of the passage are these:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, there shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob; for this is My covenant unto them when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes; but as touching the election they are beloved for the fathers' sakes." (Rom. 11:26-28).

This passage likewise has been very badly treated in the interest of the new dispensationalism. And, like as the preceding passage has been transmuted from a prophecy strictly limited to this age into one relating wholly to a future age, so this passage also is lifted bodily out of the age where the Spirit of God has placed it, and is transported to a future age, an age which exists only in the imagination of men. For the passage is usually interpreted precisely as if it read, "And then all Israel shall be saved," instead of "And so all Israel shall be saved."

Indeed all that is needed for the correction of this gigantic "dispensational" error is first to note the significance of that little word "so," and then to ascertain its meaning from the context, which is easily done.

The adverb "so" answers to the question "How?" It says nothing at all in answer to the question "When?" Yet my experience has been that, whenever Romans 11:26 is cited by dispensationalists, it is presented as proof that the entire Jewish race, reconstituted into an earthly nation, is to be saved in a future "dispensation." In fact, however, the passage teaches the very opposite; namely: that the phrase "all Israel" means, not the entire Jewish race of a future age, but the entire body of the redeemed of this gospel age. The word "so" occurs in the concluding part of the passage and hence necessarily refers back to the preceding verses, where the apostle, after explaining who they are that constitute God's true "Israel," tells in detail, and illustrates by the figure of the "good olive tree," just how God's Israel was to "be saved." He there describes beforehand precisely what God has been doing from that day to this; and when he finished his description, and has illustrated it with marvellous clearness by the figure of the olive tree, he brings the matter to a conclusion by saying: "And so" --that is, in the manner he had been describing-- "all Israel shall be saved." And he adds that the saving of "all Israel" in that manner would fulfil certain Old Testament prophecies, which he quotes.

If therefore we simply ascertain from the preceding verses (as can be done with little trouble and with certainty) who are the "all Israel" of God's purpose, and how they were to "be saved," we shall also ascertain in the process when they were to be saved.

So ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED

cont......

GOD DIVORCED "PHYSICAL" ISRAEL

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